Do you still call it a "proposal" if your book is done?

A proposal is generally a pitch of an idea, but the work is not finished.

A query is what one does with a finished product.

thothguard51 said:

A proposal is generally a pitch of an idea, but the work is not finished.

A query is what one does with a finished product.

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Depends if you are writing fiction or non-fiction.

It's my understanding that a non-fiction book still requires the format of a proposal - ie, check out the non-fiction forum for what should be in one, but it's not just a query. The only difference is you will be able to put in the proposal that the manuscript is completed. So, if writing non-fiction, go check out some non-ficition proposals and info elsewhere on AW.

If you are writing fiction, it is never queried to agents on proposal and requires being done and polished, and then a query letter that meets the proscribed form and content - get the over to Query Letter Hell in Share Your Work if it's fiction.

~suki

Hathor,

Frankly, I'm confused by your post. Have you completed a manuscript? Is it fiction or nonfiction? Have you completed a query letter? Have you a detailed table of contents?

While some fiction agents and editors ask for proposals, they are absolutely needed with works of nonfiction. Of course the guidelines tell you exactly what to send.

My nonfiction query was my proposal.. Currently on sub and in the emails I have from my agent and the publishers who have talked to me they refer to it as my manuscript and the proposal.

Hathor said:

Sorry, by mentioning a "proposal," I figured everyone would realize I am dealing with a work of nonfiction.

I know what goes in a nonfiction proposal, having read a number of books on the subject, as well as online discussions. I've written one. My only question was whether I should call it a "a description of" on the title page, rather than "a proposal for" since the work is complete. Most discussions of proposals assume that one hasn't written the book yet.

Call it a proposal, because that's what it is. Since you know about proposals you know that only one or two pages are devoted to the work in the sense of an Overview. Another page to Table of Contents, and basically the balance to a variety of things having to do with Specifications, Market, Platform, Competition, Biography, and Published Works (if any).

Like you I write nonfiction, and like you I complete my manuscripts before submitting anything. However, most nonfiction writers only finish a portion of their work before submitting. So, I don't think you can assume one or the other.

A nonfiction query is a short letter simply to see if an agent has interest in receiving more information about your work (which may or may not be complete). I've written that too.

I know; this is the least of my worries. It just struck me as strange to see "a proposal for" something that already exists. But if this is always the correct terminology whatever the status of the writing project, that is what I will call it.

Diane

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Good Luck.

AryaT92 said:

My nonfiction query was my proposal.. Currently on sub and in the emails I have from my agent and the publishers who have talked to me they refer to it as my manuscript and the proposal.

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AryaT92:

I don't understand. Could you please explain how a 300 word or so query letter can be considered a complete proposal.

Hathor said:

It just struck me as strange to see "a proposal for" something that already exists. But if this is always the correct terminology whatever the status of the writing project, that is what I will call it.

Diane

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Maybe if you think of it in terms of you are proposing that it be published by that particular publisher, etc. You may not be explaining a 'proposed' book (since it's complete), but you are proposing a partnership.

Ultimately, the document itself is simply called a proposal, no matter the status of the product being proposed.

AryaT92 said:

My nonfiction query was my proposal.. Currently on sub and in the emails I have from my agent and the publishers who have talked to me they refer to it as my manuscript and the proposal.

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Wasn't yours considered narrative nonfiction? Or am I wrong on that? Narrative is a little different from traditional nonfiction. If you didn't have to create an actual proposal that's pretty unusual, I think, as most agents and publishers require them.

I don't write nonfiction, but I was reading something about proposals earlier today because an agent called the partial for fiction a "proposal" and I was confused, so I looked them up. I'm under the impression that for nonfiction you might have a letter from which a proposal is requested (or that gives basic info, similar to a query), but that most agents may just request a proposal upfront, much the way an agent in fiction might take a query and request sample chapters based on that.

I might be wrong on that and I'm sure someone else can give better advice, though I think the idea of a proposal is to give an agent an idea of whether or not they would want to take on the work so they aren't expected to read full manuscripts (much like fiction), but that many nonfiction projects aren't written in advance because if there isn't interest it's not worth it for an author to write the entire book first (exceptions for memoirs or narrative nonfiction, in which you're supposed to have it finished). So basically what I'm saying is that yes, it would still be a proposal even if you were finished because that's basically the summary and samples of your work which you use to draw people in and show that you are competent and have an idea worth taking on.

I hope that made sense.

As was mentioned above, it's a proposal in the sense that you are bringing the agent or publisher a business proposal. It's not just a description of the book, it contains market research, the writers CV and platform, etc. It's a sales tool that not only describes the book, it should describe how the book will be profitable.

I think in the non-fiction business writers are expected to be a bit more business savvy, and less the artiste. A proposal shows you understand that.

What I meant was that what I sent was a proposal rather than a query.

It included my credentials, marketing, outline of the content and a brief summary. Not sure if that is the proposal that the publisher was talking about but I assume so as I haven't been forwarded any official proposal.

My first agent did create the proposal I think you are referring to, it was a more detailed and better written version of my own. 2-3 pages on Word.

Yes, it's still "a proposal" for a completed non-fiction manuscript--you're proposing that the publisher publish this book, not proposing that you're going to write the book.

Arya T92,

Understood.
I'm not used to seeing proposals that run only 2-3 pages. Mine usually run 25-30 pages, and I read somewhere that on average proposals should run 10-60 pages.

Generally agents don't write proposals for writers, since the proposal is a sample of the work the writer will do. Of course, they do work with writers on revising them, just as agents work with writers on revising manuscripts.

I think a 2-3 page agent-written document is more of a pitch to publishers based on the manuscript and/or proposals. I didn't see my agent's pitch so I don't know how long it was or what it contained.

Before I had my agent I sent the same proposal I sent to agents to publishers, it worked out for the most part. However, after I landed an agent I saw his pitch was quite different than mine.

I assume it was the only proposal he had sent them regarding my book because I wasn't sent anything but that forwarded email, it was less than a page and included my conversation with an editor at the publishing house he was subbing to, a conversation I had before I landed my agent.

It was basically a pitch in my opinion. A blurb about my book, a comparison to one of their books, a bit more and then the conversation between the editor and I which included her saying that she liked the book idea and the writing.

Recently after my agent did a followup the editor did say that she hopes to sit down with my completed manuscript / proposal by next week. Now I assume the proposal is my agents pitch rather then something I have not yet seen.

However, I might be wrong and he may have sent a traditonal proposal.

Before this agent I had an agent write a proposal for me that would be sent to publishers if I had signed with her. She let me look it over to add / edit things but to my understanding she would be writing the majority of it, it read the same as my proposal I sent to agents / publishers in the first place except better written and more professional.

Outline of content, marketing, target audience, books in comparison, summary, credentials, why I should be the one writing this book, things like this. I recall it being around 3-5 pages, not near 10-50.

I'm still a bit confused as to if this is considered a "proposal" by definition if it doesn't fit the usual industry standard. However, I know my current agent knows what he's doing so if he decided to send just a page, he knows best.

I could be completely wrong and maybe just haven't seen my agents proposal to them, if it sells I'll have to ask

Still on sub until next week (?)

AryaT92 said:

Outline of content, marketing, target audience, books in comparison, summary, credentials, why I should be the one writing this book, things like this. I recall it being around 3-5 pages, not near 10-50.

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Understand that this is not standard for non-fiction books being shopped to US publishers.

Your book is going to be an exception because you're a high-school student writing an insider's look at high school, not a professional journalist writing a book about, for example, the past hundred years of the organic food industry in North America.

You don't have to demonstrate that you've done a ton of research, because your life is your research.

Hathor said:

Sorry, by mentioning a "proposal," I figured everyone would realize I am dealing with a work of nonfiction.

I know what goes in a nonfiction proposal, having read a number of books on the subject, as well as online discussions. I've written one. My only question was whether I should call it a "a description of" on the title page, rather than "a proposal for" since the work is complete. Most discussions of proposals assume that one hasn't written the book yet.

A nonfiction query is a short letter simply to see if an agent has interest in receiving more information about your work (which may or may not be complete). I've written that too.

I know; this is the least of my worries. It just struck me as strange to see "a proposal for" something that already exists. But if this is always the correct terminology whatever the status of the writing project, that is what I will call it.

Diane

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I would still call it a proposal, for several reasons. One, it's the standard term that everyone's used to. Two, a proposal includes far more than just a description -- you may have market analysis and plans, author platform info and others "proposed" things not in your book.

And finally, when you do get an editor, they may well want to change your book all around, finished or not. So I'd stick with the word proposal.