show characters talking ,but viewers should not see

padnar

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Hi,
I have a small doubt . I want to show a character is speaking with another character , but the reader or the viewer should not know it .
How to show it?
I have showed as if the two characters are speaking, on the background music can be heard.
Should I specify what music should be played ? I see these things done in Tamil films . Is this done in Hollywood films ?
pl any suggestions and thank yu
padma

ps sorry on the top viewers should be typed, but i could not change it
 

aceinc1

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Padma,

It is a bit confusing. You can do,

1. (this might alter you narrative) a character speaks in V.O and the visuals are shown, in the beginning it should be like a narrator but somewhere down the line you show it is the narration of a character.
2. or it should be like a flashback(s) with V.O.

as for Music you canwrite that the music is rock or techno or anything you want but not a specific song as such.

Regards,
Ace.Inc1
 
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padnar

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Thanks Ace . I am showing in the action Mr x is coming to Mr Ys place and they talk. I dont want to show the talk , so as to make the script interesting . I am going to show a change in the behaviour
padma
 

nmstevens

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Thanks Ace . I am showing in the action Mr x is coming to Mr Ys place and they talk. I dont want to show the talk , so as to make the script interesting . I am going to show a change in the behaviour
padma

This kind of thing is done quite commonly in movies and, again, you really simply have to describe what is seen on screen.

X pushes his way through the crowded market place and comes to Y's fruit stall. The two chat briefly. Y makes a sudden gesture -- the conversation's over. He turns away. X grabs him, pulls him back. There's a sudden scuffle. Fruit goes flying this way and that. CUSTOMERS cluster around, pulling the two men apart.

X pulls away, still shouting, as Y straightens himself out.

Or whatever. You get the idea.

When you describe two people as talking and you don't include the dialogue, it pretty much follows that we aren't meant to hear what they're saying.

NMS
 

padnar

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Thanks Stevens for your prompt reply .
padma
 

raiboy

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also, while you're describing the character's action; keep in mind that MOT (all caps no periods) means "without sound" when written in scripts. Some people don't use it much, but I always opt for clearity. I think most people still know exactly what it means and it may get your point across to the reader.

that's just my 7 1/2 cents, doesn't mean a heck of a lot.
Rai
 

padnar

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also, while you're describing the character's action; keep in mind that MOT (all caps no periods) means "without sound" when written in scripts. Some people don't use it much, but I always opt for clearity. I think most people still know exactly what it means and it may get your point across to the reader.

that's just my 7 1/2 cents, doesn't mean a heck of a lot.
Rai
Sorry I cant catch you ? Should MOT be used like how we use MONTAGE in the slug line. pl clarify?
padma
 

mario_c

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Sorry I cant catch you ? Should MOT be used like how we use MONTAGE in the slug line. pl clarify?
padma
If you mean MOS, no. Just write in the description "The characters hang back and talk" or words to that effect, and the actors will do what comes naturally.
 

raiboy

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I did mean MOS for without sound.
Sorry, didn't mean to confuse.
Rai
 

nmstevens

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I did mean MOS for without sound.
Sorry, didn't mean to confuse.
Rai

And just for the record, MOS is a production term. It's something that was traditionally written on a slate, to indicate that a piece of film was shot without any accompanying sound recording. That way, the editor wouldn't drive himself crazy searching for a piece of sound track that didn't exist.

But I've never seen the term MOS used in a screenplay.

And for the record, the ostensible origin of the term comes from the day when Hollywood was populated with numerous directors of European origin was were constantly demanding shots, "Mit out sound" -- ultimately leading to the acronym "M.O.S. -- Mit Out Sound.

Nobody knows if it's true, but it makes a great story.

NMS
 

Mac H.

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But I've never seen the term MOS used in a screenplay.
In the thousands of scripts I've read, I've probably only seen it used a couple of times in professionally written scripts..

The upcoming Ben Stiller comedy 'Help Me Spread Goodness' used 'MOS'.
It was also used in the screenplays for 'Groundhog Day' & 'A Few Good Men'.

It is incredibly rarely used. On the other hand, it seems very popular in amateur scripts coming from film school students ! I started a quick count and gave up - there were too many.

I'd avoid it.

Good luck !

Mac
 

aceinc1

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I think Padma is talking from the artistic POV. I feel you folks are tryin' to give a business POV.

I know this happens with me all the time, sometime ago I wanted to know the nut bolts of WRITING aspect of a MUSICAL screenplay and a lot of folks chipped in with IT WILL NOT SELL (to me that was that is business aspect). it so happened that one member PMed me and in the PM she did give me exactly what I needed to know.

I will not talk on my REWRITE experience,

I JUST LOVE CREATING CONTROVERSIES, hehe,
 

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nmstevens,
You said MOS is a production term and that you've never seen it in a screenplay. I hope I’m not going too far off point, but I have a question regarding this comment.

First, I’ve used MOS in a spec script and I’ll explain why:

I wrote a scene in which a mother and father discover their child missing. First they search the home together. When that fails, the father tells the mother to check with neighbors while he calls the police. I wanted to follow the mother out of the house, but I also wanted my reader to hear the father’s frantic 911 call (the call is used against him later by the police). To accomplish this; I describe the mother racing out of the house, going to a neighbor’s house, and asking that neighbor about her missing son. All of this is done MOS while we hear the back and forth between the father and the 911 Operator.

Now I hate to encumber the read, but I also shoot for clarity. I first learned about MOS in school. I studied theater and as a requirement had to take a number of playwriting classes. I’m sure I heard about the use of MOS while studying the difference between screenwriting and playwriting. MOS is also talked about in Trottier’s S.W.B and in The Hollywood Standard. Would I be incorrect in assuming that although the term may be either production or archaic; isn’t it widely known by script readers, producers, agents, etc… And if so, I’d rather my reader have as clear a picture as possible.
It’s much like the term “beat”. I strive to never use it and I rarely do, but sometimes those four little letters are the clearest way of telling the reader to hold on a sec… okay now read ahead. And if I’ve told a compelling story at the end, I’d rather have a reader think that I used a production and or archaic term than have the reader not get it.
Again, I hope this isn’t going too far off point, but it’s something I’ve thought about a lot.
Rai
 

nmstevens

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nmstevens,
You said MOS is a production term and that you've never seen it in a screenplay. I hope I’m not going too far off point, but I have a question regarding this comment.

First, I’ve used MOS in a spec script and I’ll explain why:

I wrote a scene in which a mother and father discover their child missing. First they search the home together. When that fails, the father tells the mother to check with neighbors while he calls the police. I wanted to follow the mother out of the house, but I also wanted my reader to hear the father’s frantic 911 call (the call is used against him later by the police). To accomplish this; I describe the mother racing out of the house, going to a neighbor’s house, and asking that neighbor about her missing son. All of this is done MOS while we hear the back and forth between the father and the 911 Operator.

Now I hate to encumber the read, but I also shoot for clarity. I first learned about MOS in school. I studied theater and as a requirement had to take a number of playwriting classes. I’m sure I heard about the use of MOS while studying the difference between screenwriting and playwriting. MOS is also talked about in Trottier’s S.W.B and in The Hollywood Standard. Would I be incorrect in assuming that although the term may be either production or archaic; isn’t it widely known by script readers, producers, agents, etc… And if so, I’d rather my reader have as clear a picture as possible.
It’s much like the term “beat”. I strive to never use it and I rarely do, but sometimes those four little letters are the clearest way of telling the reader to hold on a sec… okay now read ahead. And if I’ve told a compelling story at the end, I’d rather have a reader think that I used a production and or archaic term than have the reader not get it.
Again, I hope this isn’t going too far off point, but it’s something I’ve thought about a lot.
Rai

I've seen many things in many scripts and what you have to understand is that this isn't like writing a thesis where you've got rules about exactly how you have to write the footnotes.

It's not like if you put it in somebody is going to take points off your final grade -- except in the larger sense that, given that it's a production term and not generally used, when it comes in front of a reader, it's use, like many other such things -- making references to shots and atypical formatting and all of those things that beginners tend to get warned against --

Sure, you can always find examples in professional scripts where professional writers do all of those "Don'ts" and they probably always did do them.

But you have to look at in this light. You want your script to get all the way to the top of the heap. And just by virtue of the fact that it's a spec script from an unknown writer, it starts at the very razor's edge of being rejected.

That's just a fact of life. If it's a script by a successful produced screenwriter, it starts much closer toward being bought. No guarantee. In fact, any script by virtually any screenwriter -- even somebody who just wrote an academy award winning movie probably has a greater chance of being rejected than bought. That's just reality.

But they obviously have a better chance than you. Or me. And I have a better chance than you.

You have a very small chance, though still a chance.

So what you don't want to do, right off the bat, is to do anything in your script that pushes it closer to that edge. For instance, you write a script that 150 pages. Before the reader has even read a word, your script has just been pushed way closer to the edge. He opens it up and riffs through it. Huge blocks of dense text. Pages of description with almost no dialogue. Page after page after page of it. Even closer to the edge.

Then he starts reading. Odd ball non-traditional format.

Let me tell you, maybe your script can still sell -- but boy, it had better be brilliant. I mean, Pulp Fiction brilliant from page one. Because if it isn't, it's pretty much already gone.

And it's the same deal with all this little stuff. There's just kind of an accumulation of things that go on the wrong side of the balance. Put just one more little thing on that wrong side and oops -- over it goes, into the circular file.

As far as MOS -- It's very easy to say something like, No ambient sound or -- the following is silent except for the Voice Over.

Yeah, it takes a few more words but it also falls in the same category as specifying shots. It never bothered me, but given that it bothers a lot of people, it probably makes more sense, when it's possible, to find a way to indicate it, even when it takes a few more words, then to come right out and say "CLOSE SHOT ON THE ALIEN PARASITE as, unnoticed, it burrows into the base of Sheila's spine."

NMS
 

padnar

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I think Padma is talking from the artistic POV. I feel you folks are tryin' to give a business POV.

I know this happens with me all the time, sometime ago I wanted to know the nut bolts of WRITING aspect of a MUSICAL screenplay and a lot of folks chipped in with IT WILL NOT SELL (to me that was that is business aspect). it so happened that one member PMed me and in the PM she did give me exactly what I needed to know.

I will not talk on my REWRITE experience,

I JUST LOVE CREATING CONTROVERSIES, hehe,
Ace pl dont write any post supporting me as our own people will tease us, that we both are going to win a Nobel prize in English literature .I know it is like the coal calling the kettle black but still I dont want to be a laughing stock .
padma
 
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aceinc1

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what in the world made you think I'm supporting you?

it is just my comment on the way these folks think the needy should be enlightened.

ace.inc1
 

vigilante

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For purpose of clarification, if possible, I´d like to comment that Mit Out Sound is a german barbarism meaning: Mit (With) out sound: Without sound, In german, without sound, in english and german mit out sound. It is very funny and mean some german director mixed words because the right german expression would be: Ohne Klang: Without sound.

I think the answer of padna has been correctly answered anyway and the description of a scene without dialogue is pure cinematic action and so this thing should be treated.
 

Lady Ice

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Hi,
I have a small doubt . I want to show a character is speaking with another character , but the reader or the viewer should not know it .
How to show it?
I have showed as if the two characters are speaking, on the background music can be heard.
Should I specify what music should be played ? I see these things done in Tamil films . Is this done in Hollywood films ?
pl any suggestions and thank yu
padma

ps sorry on the top viewers should be typed, but i could not change it

Write something like [A and B are speaking but their dialogue is inaudible]
 

sagar.author

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I can help

Dear Padma,

When you need to give voice to characters without showing them
you can use (O. S)

you must be knowing the use of (V. O) = voice over, it is used in starting to tell the story. Now the (O. S.) = Off Screen is used where you can use dialogues and the reader knows that he doesn't need to show characters on screen. Example:

SAGAR (O. S.)
Can i help you?

PADMA
(ignoring stranger)
No thanks.

Hope it helped you.
 

padnar

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Thanks all of you. This is the scene.
INT . UMA'S DRAWING ROOM- DAY

Jonathan is reading a book sitting in the sofa. A background music can be heard. He hears a knock and opens the door .

He finds an Indian man about 35, of average height. He looked well build. He is smart , but a bit dark. Jonathan is wondering whether to invite him. Anand removes his identity card and shows to him.

JONATHAN

Come in Mr Srinivasan, I am sorry to make you wait.

ANAND

I should be sorry for disturbing you. I should have made an appointment, but I could not do so, as I did not want Chitra to know that I am here.

JONATHAN

Ok , than tell me why you have come.

Jonathan and Anand are talking to each other. We can only see it , but we cannot hear it . A background music can be heard.

I hope it is ok. I want to show this ,as i want to show Jonathan different . He changes from a care giving person into a abusive person . I want it , to be a sort of suspense.
padma
 

nmstevens

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Thanks all of you. This is the scene.
INT . UMA'S DRAWING ROOM- DAY

Jonathan is reading a book sitting in the sofa. A background music can be heard. He hears a knock and opens the door .

He finds an Indian man about 35, of average height. He looked well build. He is smart , but a bit dark. Jonathan is wondering whether to invite him. Anand removes his identity card and shows to him.

JONATHAN

Come in Mr Srinivasan, I am sorry to make you wait.

ANAND

I should be sorry for disturbing you. I should have made an appointment, but I could not do so, as I did not want Chitra to know that I am here.

JONATHAN

Ok , than tell me why you have come.

Jonathan and Anand are talking to each other. We can only see it , but we cannot hear it . A background music can be heard.

I hope it is ok. I want to show this ,as i want to show Jonathan different . He changes from a care giving person into a abusive person . I want it , to be a sort of suspense.
padma

I suppose this really belongs in the "show your work" section, but just to address the single issue that you've raised -- the most common way in which this point would be addressed in such a scene is to simply end the scene on the question.

That is, Jonathan looks at the guy, asks, "Tell me why you've come." -- Cut. End of scene.

And you leave it to the audience to fill in exactly what the conversation was. That is, if somebody says to somebody else, "Tell me why you've come," the audience is pretty much going to figure out that what comes next is the other guy telling him why he came -- whatever that reason is.

And the audience is going to connect those two dots whether you continue the scene and we hear the answer, whether you show them talking and we don't hear the answer, or whether you simply cut to the next scene and we don't hear or see anything.

And the simplest and most elegant solution, given that you don't want the audience, at that moment, to know what was discussed, would likely be to simply end the scene at that point. What does continuing tell us -- other than that they talked. But surely we know that they talked. We don't think that Jonathan uttered that line and then slammed the door shut.

So you don't need it. And whenever you have a question about anything in a script -- a line of dialogue, a scene, a bit of business, the first question you should always ask is -- do I need it at all? Can solve my problem by just cutting it out completely.

You'd be amazed how much time you waste worrying about fixing stuff that can be most easily fixed by hitting the delete button.

NMS
 

padnar

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Thanks Steven , you have made it easy
Padma