Girls & Fantasy... :l

You're a girl...

You write fantasy...

Rest my case...

Speaking also as a girl (I'm assuming "you guys" is used gender-non-specific ) ...

I don't care for fantasy that opens with swords bashing into shields. Let's not confuse "action" for "conflict." I want a story to open with a character I can latch onto. For example, in a recent novel I read, the story opened with the MC escaping a scientific facility and jumping off a damn, surviving the long drop -- but, I was grabbed by his mental process, all calculations and precision. The cool action was a bonus

Relationships and human interaction are what pull me through a story. But that's because I read for character, not for plot. If you have no characters with personal stakes, you have nothing that draws the reader through. The story doesn't have to consist PURELY of character interaction (please don't, that's boring, unless you're Camus and you wrote THE FALL and then maybe we can talk), but if it isn't there, and if I don't feel like I want to read about your characters, I won't.

Speaking thirdly as a girl (yech, girls make me think of little girls and I look 15 as it is), I don't much totally care for books that start with opening battles...

And nothing else.

Two examples of this from my two top favorite fantasy series

George R R Martin's Song of Ice and Fire series: The very first book opens up with characters ranging in a dark and cold forest and ends up with all but one of them dying. But you get a sense of the mysterious and the something-not-quite-right-at-all-is-going-on.

Steven Erikson's Malazan Book of the Fallen series: The battle is actually about a chapter or two in, but it's not just swords and magic and stuff; you learn a lot about the characters from just a couple of pages.

Action is cool. I don't like super-extended action scenes because I think that often (but not always), they're poorly written and my eyes tend to glaze after a couple paragraphs, but I certainly don't want to read a book about a bunch of women sitting in a tower drinking tea and complaining.

Considering the tendency of UF to open with fights and other forms of action, I can't imagine that no girl will read this just because there's a swordfight.

*pause for accusations of sexism ir to UF*

The question is, what are you going to follow that up with?

Is this teacher a regular reader of fantasy, or are they making broad brush assumptions about readers' preferences?

waylander said:

Is this teacher a regular reader of fantasy, or are they making broad brush assumptions about readers' preferences?

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Good question.

I'm more troubled by the broad brush assumption about what girls want in a fantasy story, namely the implications that a) ALL girls want that and b) ONLY girls want that. Or am I the only one seeing that?

Tell her to read "Graceling". And tell her to read "The Hunger Games". And then tell her to suck it.

Well no, not really. But there are all kinds of readers. And there isn't a monolithic "female reader" who wants feelings in lieu of fighting. Some readers prefer more talking and feeling, others prefer more hacking and slashing (and personally I like both).

Anytime someone tells me all males or all females want a specific thing, I ignore them. You know it can't be true, because it's simply not logically. People are much more variable than that.

It's often a sign that the individual making the statement has some issues with internalised sexism. Your book isn't there to promote their issues. It's there to tell your story.

The core issue I read here is that everyone, boys and girls alike, want to become involved with the protagonist (MC if you will). Me too. And I'm a 62-year-old boy.

But I don't think that requires that a story must start off soft and build to heavy action. Who was it, Dempsey? said not to confuse conflict and action. Some people thrive on action, demand it. Others rush past, looking for the mushy parts. But in every case, if the story teller hasn't made the MC compelling in some way, to every type of reader (Yeah, tall order, huh?), then it doesn't matter how the story starts.

Would it make a difference if we see the MC in the middle of a battle, but he(she) isn't swinging a sword and instead is hiding under the stairs? Before you pooh-pooh that idea, consider: in such a case there is a gob of room to let the character grow. But if he(she) is knife-in-teeth-muscle-bound-blood-and-guts in paragraph one, any character growth must be outside the action.

The farmer's boy hiding under the stairs while the battle rages may not be high action, but it sure is conflict. How does he get away from the war alive? Does he have a stake in the outcome? Does the blood and guts guy mentioned above die and drop his sword where the MC might use it in his defense? That's conflict! Does he or doesn't he?

(I'm tempted to say "only his fantasy writer knows for sure" but I won't.)

The big problem I see with using a battle scene to open a story (at least one where the MC figures prominently) is that then it's pretty tough to make things worse for the characters involved.

If as you say, you show the MC in a situation that, as chapter one progresses, gets more action-packed and culminates in a knock-down drag-out fight where he's wounded, you've just completed a story arc. ie: building from low key to climax and denouement. Ask yourself this, then: Can the remainder of your story be even more exciting? If the answer is yes, then by all means, continue.

Girls will be looking for human interactions, relationships, etc.,

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Last time I checked I was of the female variety and I would say that unless you are targetting a specific romance-orientated audience, then ignore your teacher.

I read my book aloud to my family, both to 'hear' problems with it that I could edit and to have a reaction from the listeners - my wife and two sons. I thought it interesting that my sons both perked up with excitement during the battle scenes, but my wife basically tuned out. Oh well, she doesn't like any movies unless they are comedies or romances, so I should have expected that. Anyhow, I wouldn't assume her reaction means that all women feel that way.

As a reader of the female persuasion, if you've got a sword fight I'm going to be disappointed if someone's guts don't fall out and steam gently on the ground. If the hero gets his foot tangled in an intestine and falls face first into them, that's a bonus

*shrug*


Fifty different readers might want fifty different things and you'll never please everybody - and you can't really generalise re male and female and what they'll want with any accuracy. However most will agree on what Pthom said - first, give me a compelling character. As for the rest - as many people will be put off by a lack of violence if your society is violent as will be put off by having a sword fight. I can name you a couple of authors whose books are wall to wall action and they do very nicely, thank you.

The question is...what sort of story do you want to write? Then write it, and make it the best you can.

Female perspective - I want to see something that makes me fly through the pages. Great action will do this. What I do not want to see is action and backstory at the same time. An example of this is when two people are fighting, suddenly one steps back and starts speaking Latin and casting a spell. I hate that. I know nothing about the magic system in the book, so having it flung at me -- just bothers me. I also don't like it when they are explaining the magic system while fighting in the opening scene.

If it's regular sword and board, I enjoy a good fighting scene. Only turn off to something like that is if it's too gory.

I'm throwing my lot in with Pthom--readers, male or female, will be pulled through whatever story you're telling by having compelling characters. I'm sure your teacher means well (and she is probably thinking of Twilight, which is all about relationships and feelings and not so much about deep characterization), but it does strike me as limiting and overly broad.

Tell the story you want to tell, and develop your characters organically. Readers who want to read what you've written will come, and it shouldn't matter if they're male or female. Don't shoehorn in some feelings or relationships that go against a character's nature just to have it in there.

Let's be clear about one thing: when she said "relationships" did she mean romantic?

Because, like... a friendship is still a relationship. So are familial ties. When I hear "relationship" I think of how two people interact, not if they want to go make kissy-face.

dempsey said:

Let's be clear about one thing: when she said "relationships" did she mean romantic?

Because, like... a friendship is still a relationship. So are familial ties. When I hear "relationship" I think of how two people interact, not if they want to go make kissy-face.

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Although, to be fair, sometimes characters do want to go make kissy-face

And to remain in the fair mode, often readers are voyeur enough to want to watch characters go off and make kissy-face...and other things.

All my characters want to kissey-face - and everything else too! Perverts. I wouldn't put it in the first chapter though unless it was erotica...

And kissey wissey doesn't mean no slicey-wicey, oh look there's a liver on the floor.

I own a cat who would disagree with you, IRU

IdiotsRUs said:

And kissey wissey doesn't mean no slicey-wicey, oh look there's a liver on the floor.

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Hot.