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Old 02-25-2010, 02:11 PM   #1
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Lightbulb Lillibridge Press

Hi everyone!

I saw Lillibridge Press listed in Ralan, and wow, they have some awesome-looking covers. I wonder if anyone has info on them?

here's the link: http://www.lillibridgepress.com/

Thanks!
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Old 02-25-2010, 08:01 PM   #2
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Looks like a new e press with POD print. They state this openly. I guess only time will tell if they last.
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Old 02-25-2010, 08:15 PM   #3
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Owner's books are published by the press, publish several different genres, the only one with experience might be the web design guy (one of the editors is actually listed as an editor, but doesn't indicate any actual experience), I'd say pass. Especially if you're looking to sub romance or erotica, there are many successful epublishers already.
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Old 02-26-2010, 01:38 AM   #4
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Gee, thanks for your thoughts!
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Old 03-13-2010, 06:07 PM   #5
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Friend offered contract. This is in it. Yikes.

The expenses for copyrighting the Work in the U.S.A., not to exceed $50, shall be advanced by the Publisher, but be recoupable against royalties payable to the Author under this Agreement or any other Agreement with Publisher; b) For novella and novel length works, Publisher will obtain and assign ISBN numbers for the Work in as many formats as may be required. The expenses of obtaining ISBN numbers shall be advanced by Publisher, not to exceed $75 per format, but be recoupable against royalties payable to Author under this or any other Agreement with Publisher. Publisher will assign Works of shorter length a house publication number for sale in electronic print versions.

(bold is mine)

Last edited by CloudyDay; 03-13-2010 at 07:20 PM. Reason: something to add
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Old 03-13-2010, 10:29 PM   #6
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I'd look askance at any supposed industry professional who says "ISBN numbers." I'd look doubly askance at an outfit that's making a profit on their ISBNs.

For a minute there I thought they were charging for their in-house tracking numbers, but that's just murky prose. They assign short works an in-house tracking number to facilitate sales.
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Old 03-13-2010, 10:34 PM   #7
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To me, it looked like a vanity press that didn't want to look like one. Am I wrong about that? I mean $75 per ISBN! Epub and print would be at least 2. The copyright fee $50. They also wants first refusal rights on the next novel and take out any processing fees to pay on net instead of gross. That sounds strange.

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Old 03-13-2010, 11:12 PM   #8
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A publisher should be absorbing the cost of the ISBN, it's all part of the expense of publishing a book. Authors should be paid on cover price, and the publisher makes back the money they spend for copyright, ISBN, editing, cover design and all other expenses through sales. If they make the author 'pay back' that amount, then the book probably doesn't have to sell much. Pay on net is pretty much a bad deal.
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Old 03-13-2010, 11:52 PM   #9
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I can't disagree with a word of that.
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Old 03-14-2010, 03:29 AM   #10
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And here we have the e-book/print combo slipping into the nether realm of vanity again, whilst trying not to look so obvious about it.
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Old 03-23-2010, 02:15 AM   #11
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Lillibridge Press

Hi Annetookeen, and everyone contributing to this thread! I'm glad you like our covers! That's one of many ways we set ourselves apart from other online publishers.

Lillibridge Press is a small independent publisher, and we rely on authors like you to get the word out and help us build a wide offering of amazing works. I completely understand how our contract may seem unusual, so I'd like to explain the parts that people have asked about here.

Lillibridge Press is not a vanity publisher. We never ask for any money from authors. Ever. And we never will. A vanity press will take your roughest draft and publish it in that state for a fee. We don't do that: it would conflict with our goal to sell the best speculative fiction available anywhere. We pursue this goal by working with authors like you to hone your skill, polishing each word of your manuscript. Our editors are knowledgeable and possess advanced credentials. All works we sell go through three professional editing phases. We don't charge you for this; instead our editors are invested in you and your work because they will share a fraction of the profits.

And finally, Lillibridge Press only uses ISBNs for print-on-demand works. I believe all our novels should be available in print-on-demand. I recognize and appreciate the enormous amount of intellectual, emotional, and creative labor that goes into producing a work of fiction and believe novels deserve to be in print. This requires an ISBN; Lillibridge Press will front the expense. Since only our POD books are sold this way, we recoup the expenditure. This is not a new idea. Large publishers also use recoupable fees, but hide them within layers of legal jargon. We recoup only the cost, and as we grow that cost will go down. If your work is sold only in electronic format, we use an in-house number so there will be no ISBN-recoupable fees attached to your work even when sold through a third party, like Amazon Kindle. We also decided on a higher percentage of net instead of a lower percentage of gross. Since Lillibridge Press’ cut comes from the net, it behooves Lillibridge Press to keep the difference between net and gross as small as possible.

I hope you and other authors like you will consider submitting your work to Lillibridge Press. We are enthusiastic to work with authors who are committed to the craft.

Sincerely,

Ronald E. Blakeslee
Publisher – Editor-in-Chief
Lillibridge Press
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Old 03-23-2010, 02:24 AM   #12
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Um. In my experience even very small e/presses pay for the ISBN and do not pass on this fee. Can you name any reputable non-vanity press that recoups the cost of ISBNs from royalties?
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Old 03-23-2010, 03:38 AM   #13
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You're taking the cost of copyrighting the work out of the author's royalties - That's charging the author to print their book.

You're taking the cost of the ISBN out of the author's royalties - That's charging the author to print their book.

The reason paying on net is disadvantageous to the author has been done ad infinitum around here. If you're not getting an advance (never a good sign since an advance shows the royalties a PUBLISHER expects to make X amount on a book), then the only way to know what you're supposed to be making in royalties is by getting a percentage of the cover price. Hopefully, this contract spells out EXACTLY how "net" is figured. This is too important to just leave open.
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Old 03-23-2010, 04:02 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lillibridge Press View Post
Lillibridge Press is a small independent publisher, and we rely on authors like you to get the word out and help us build a wide offering of amazing works.
Can I ask why you're not doing this? Because other small independant publishers rely on themselves.
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Old 03-23-2010, 06:12 AM   #15
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Okay, ISBN numbers are running $25 per number in blocks of 10 at this time. Last year they worked out to be about $34 each in a block of 10. $75 for an ISBN is pretty high, unless you're trying to make a profit on 'selling' them to your authors.

Last I checked filing a copyright cost $35, not $50, so are you charging for the time it takes to fill out the forms and the cost of sending the printed copy? And at that point who does the copyright belong to? The author or your company?
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Old 03-23-2010, 06:05 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michael_b View Post
Okay, ISBN numbers are running $25 per number in blocks of 10 at this time. Last year they worked out to be about $34 each in a block of 10. $75 for an ISBN is pretty high, unless you're trying to make a profit on 'selling' them to your authors.

Last I checked filing a copyright cost $35, not $50, so are you charging for the time it takes to fill out the forms and the cost of sending the printed copy? And at that point who does the copyright belong to? The author or your company?
Michael, I'm unsure why you would have a vested interest in our policies. I batted scenarios around yesterday. Only few ideas surfaced.

Anyway, you're right. A block of ten ISBNs is 275.00. However, our lawyer didn't ask us how much ten ISBNs cost. He asked, how much does one cost? Please go here:http://www.isbn.org/standards/home/i.../secureapp.asp Click on "Application for a Single ISBN."

Wow! One ISBN costs 125.00.

This is from the US Copyright website:

How do I register my copyright?
To register a work, submit a completed application form, a nonrefundable filing fee, which is $35 if you register online or $50 if you register using Form CO; and a nonreturnable copy or copies of the work to be registered. See Circular 1, Copyright Basics, section “Registration Procedures.”

At Lillibridge Press, the copyright is the authors. I hope this clears up questions about the cost of ISBNs and copyright fees.
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Old 03-23-2010, 06:15 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lillibridge Press View Post
At Lillibridge Press, the copyright is the authors. I hope this clears up questions about the cost of ISBNs and copyright fees.
The copyright is always the author's, but the publisher still absorbs the cost for it.
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Old 03-23-2010, 06:38 PM   #18
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So now that you know the cost of an ISBN block will the price be changing?

p.s. I am still waiting to know which "Large publishers also use recoupable fees" including the cost of registration and ISBN numbers.

As for "vested interests", I suggest you look around the forum. These are just interests, no "vesting" required.
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Old 03-23-2010, 06:53 PM   #19
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Quote:
Lillibridge Press:
Anyway, you're right. A block of ten ISBNs is 275.00. However, our lawyer didn't ask us how much ten ISBNs cost. He asked, how much does one cost? Please go here:http://www.isbn.org/standards/home/i.../secureapp.asp Click on "Application for a Single ISBN."

Wow! One ISBN costs 125.00.
You're being completely disingenuous. The cost to you of one ISBN is $275 divided by 10, i.e. $27.50.

If you're serious about running a publishing company, then you'd be buying your ISBNs in bulk anyway, based on the number of publications you're planning/anticipating to release in the forthcoming year - not buying them on an adhoc basis.

In any event, as other posters have pointed out, it is simply not acceptable to effectively use that clause to deny authors their royalties until they "earn out" the outlay. I've only ever seen earn out language like that where the publisher has actually paid an advance up front to the authors. You don't seem to be doing that.

Quote:
Lillibridge Press:
Lillibridge Press is a small independent publisher, and we rely on authors like you to get the word out and help us build a wide offering of amazing works.
What do you do to get word out? What do you do to try and maximise sales? How much experience does your marketing and promotions department have and where did they get that experience?

Quote:
Lillibridge Press:
Lillibridge Press is not a vanity publisher. We never ask for any money from authors. Ever. And we never will. A vanity press will take your roughest draft and publish it in that state for a fee. We don't do that: it would conflict with our goal to sell the best speculative fiction available anywhere. We pursue this goal by working with authors like you to hone your skill, polishing each word of your manuscript.
That's one definition of a vanity press.

Other definitions include not having a quality threshold in place to select what you accept for publication, requiring authors to purchase copies of their own work for the purposes of on-sale or requiring authors to pay other 'behind the scenes' additional costs as a condition to publication, e.g. paying the ISBN registration fee.

Quote:
Lillibridge Press:
Our editors are knowledgeable and possess advanced credentials.
Okay. Why aren't those credentials set out on your website? Who did your editors gain their credentials with and in what capacity, e.g. have they worked as editors for commercial publishers?

Quote:
Lillibridge Press:
I believe all our novels should be available in print-on-demand. I recognize and appreciate the enormous amount of intellectual, emotional, and creative labor that goes into producing a work of fiction and believe novels deserve to be in print.
Why? You bill yourself on your own website as being predominantly an eBook publisher. If you're not getting enough eBook sales to make profit, how do you see your company as making money from a POD operation given the difficulties of getting bulk sales in place via bookstores if the POD model is used?

How do you determine whether an eBook goes through to being published via POD? What happens if you decide not to POD an author's book?

Quote:
Lillibridge Press:
We also decided on a higher percentage of net instead of a lower percentage of gross. Since Lillibridge Press’ cut comes from the net, it behooves Lillibridge Press to keep the difference between net and gross as small as possible.
How do you calculate net? If you're adding a load of costs to reduce the amount that goes to the author, then that's a lousy deal for the author.

MM
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Old 03-23-2010, 07:28 PM   #20
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Old 03-23-2010, 09:12 PM   #21
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Lillibridge Press' contract was created by Les Greenbaum, 465 Main Street | Suite 600 Buffalo, New York, an intellectual property rights lawyer. I just got off the phone with him.

This is Lillibridge Press' model. There are other models out there, for sure. If you are offered an LP contract and you are not happy with something in it, say so. If we are not willing to restructure our agreement to your liking, we both walk away. Our lawyer has negotiated contracts with authors and traditional publishers for multiple years. He stated that our contract is very fair. Unfortunately, he is bound by confidentiality and can't tell me what publisher has recoupable fees. I told him about the angst ridden words here concerning the copyright. His response: "You register the copyright in their name. If they don't want to pay you back, let them register it themselves." Our lawyer also advised me not to bother responding to this thread. He said, "Some writers are not going to like your contract."

I wish everyone here the best of luck in their writing career!
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Old 03-23-2010, 09:17 PM   #22
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So, you are not actually aware of any other publisher that does this. You are taking your lawyers words for it, and think we should take yours. Which I don't. I have signed a few contracts and seen many others. As far as I know what you are doing is unique, and I think it is hostile to the interests of your authors.
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Old 03-23-2010, 09:19 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lillibridge Press View Post
Unfortunately, he is bound by confidentiality and can't tell me what publisher has recoupable fees. I told him about the angst ridden words here concerning the copyright. His response: "You register the copyright in their name. If they don't want to pay you back, let them register it themselves."
No no no no no no NO.

Registering the copyright is your cost. It's part and parcel of producing a book, just like paying for editing and cover art is your cost. Real publishers make back those costs by selling the book to the buying public, not the author's royalties. Either you're vanity or commercial. Decide which one you're going to be.
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Old 03-23-2010, 09:19 PM   #24
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I'm certainly aware of dozens that don't, though. (Sorry, that's in response to Veinglory's "So, you are not actually aware of any other publisher that does this.")
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Old 03-23-2010, 09:21 PM   #25
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: C eh N eh D eh
Posts: 6,539
jennontheisland is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsjennontheisland is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsjennontheisland is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsjennontheisland is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsjennontheisland is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsjennontheisland is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsjennontheisland is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsjennontheisland is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsjennontheisland is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsjennontheisland is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsjennontheisland is so great that we've run out of appropriate compliments
If you can't afford ISBNs and copyright registration, how are you paying for editing and cover art? Does that come out of author royalties too?
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