NEW WRITER NEEDS ADVICE

FossilWriter said:

Hi Everyone -
Thanks for reading. I'm not sure where to turn. I've written a book that I know has great potential. I've had great feedback from my target audience - trouble is I can't seem to get anywhere close to an Editors Desk.

It's a Chapter Book / Middle Grade piece. Any advice on how to get past the front door?

Also, with my book the illustrations are critical - in that it explains a LOT of what is going on (the book is meant to be used as a teaching tool as well as a leisure read) - I have the drawings (yes, I am a professional) - what is the best way to get this all looked at?

Also, do I need an agent? I mean, REALLY need one or is this do-able on my own?

Thanks for your help in advance
Tricia

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I see you are new to AW. Welcome.

Start with the sticky threads in this forum. Read up on a lot of the threads in here, about publishing for children and about others' publishing experiences.

A few of the things in your post make me wonder how much research you have done into the industry so far.

First, is it a chapter book or a middle grade novel or a picture book for older readers? Those are three different things with vastly different expectations? So...what is the word count, and the subject matter?

You say it's meant to be a teaching tool - in what way? For what age level? Do you have experience with being able to identify the appropriate grade/level it would fit?

Illustrations are rare in Middle Grade novels - not unheard of, but rare. They are more likely in picture books for older readers, but those are harder to sell. And even with author/illustrators, sometimes publishers do prefer to pair their own professional illustrators. Are you adamant that the only way you will consider selling the project is with your illustrations? Or would you consider selling the text alone?

Once it's more clear what kind of project this is, people will be able to offer more specific advice. If it's a middle grade novel, I'll advise absolutely trying to find an agent. But if it's a different kind of book, I might suggest another path.

And regardless, you'll probably want to get some peer critique on the text itself. So...after you decide what it is, you may want to post the first 1,500 words in the appropriate forum in Share Your Work for critique.

Lastly, I suggest that if you are serious about writing/illustrating for children you check out The Society of Children's Book Writers and Illustrators (SCBWI). It's an organization for folks who write and illustrate for children, and it's a great way to connect with other professionals and aspiring professionals, and to get a jump start in learning the ins and outs of the business of children's publishing. And, another benefit is the conferences - where you can get access to editors from publishing houses that generally do not accept un-agented submissions (as well as networking and info on craft).

Welcome, look around, start your research. And then figure out what you have and what you want to do with it.

~suki

Welcome Fossilwriter.

First you need to decide if it is a chapter book or a middle grade book. Next, you need to make sure your query letter is working. Since you are new here, you might not realize there is a Share Your Work section. There is a section for query letters there where people make comments on what works and what doesn't. I wouldn't post yours until you've read the stickies at the top, so that you can make sure your query has all the necessary elements before people spend the time to comment. Good luck.

ETA:Suki said it much better of course!

I tried to take it point by point:

FossilWriter said:

Hi Everyone -
Thanks for reading. I'm not sure where to turn. I've written a book that I know has great potential.<--- your opinion, which is the same opinion every writer has. Most writers are wrong, which is why agents and editors don't trust their opinions. I've had great feedback from my target audience <-- also meaningless at this stage. Opinions of non-pros mean nothing to agents/editors- trouble is I can't seem to get anywhere close to an editors desk.<--- because you're unagented. Most editors won't touch an unagented submission - literally won't touch it. They reject it unread because it never reaches them.

It's a Chapter Book / Middle Grade piece.<--- two different things. You MUST know how to classify your book. If you can't, anyone who's a pro is going to assume you don't know enough about the market or your target audience to know what you're doing. What target audience did you target? What's your word count? Chapter books and MG books are going to be THOUSANDS of words apart in range. Any advice on how to get past the front door? <--- learn the basics and get an agent

Also, with my book the illustrations are critical <--- you just added another complication. Pictures mean money.- in that it explains a LOT of what is going on<--- And another complication. (the book is meant to be used as a teaching tool as well as a leisure read)<--- Yuck. Now you're drowning yourself. Pointing out that a book is meant to "teach" will get you rejected straight out of the gate - I have the drawings (yes, I am a professional)<--- still at the discretion of any publisher who takes it on. They may prefer to work with someone they're familiar with, and will have opinions on what the pics. should look like. - what is the best way to get this all looked at?<--- find an agent who handles author/illustrators.

Also, do I need an agent? <--- YesI mean, REALLY need one or is this do-able on my own? <--- Picture books you can sub to certain publishers on your own, anything else, or for a major house, you need an agent.

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As has been suggested, post your query letter in Share Your Work and see if it's working or not.

If you're determined to get this book published with illustrations, your best bet is POD. Very few MG novels have illustrations, if any. A chapter book might have one per chapter. And as others have said, there's a big difference between the two.

Read all of the answers above. Excellent responses. Take your time, read through the forums here. Learn about writing for kids.

Stick on the postage

When new, I simply mailed stuff out and made lots of copies. I got a little of nice responses, a lot of no responses and one nasty response, which is kind of nice actually considering how bad I was when I started.
Without doing this I don't think I would've pursued my writing dream, and though I wasted editor's time, I think they are used to that.
I say send it out and see if anyone nibbles, but that's just me. I was never afraid to send something out. Also, it doesn't bother me if people say I cannot write.
It bothers me if they don't like my shoes, or if they ignore me in conversation, or if they think my big toe is too big but the writing .... I believe so fanatically in myself I think I must've been called by the fates or the stars in the sky....
But then I'm weird.
You sound you like you like it so why shouldn't someone else? You might get a hastily scrawled note from an editor, (which I cherish like a personal note from Elvis, those I've gotten)

cindystubbs said:

When new, I simply mailed stuff out and made lots of copies. I got a little of nice responses, a lot of no responses and one nasty response, which is kind of nice actually considering how bad I was when I started.
Without doing this I don't think I would've pursued my writing dream, and though I wasted editor's time, I think they are used to that.
I say send it out and see if anyone nibbles, but that's just me. I was never afraid to send something out. Also, it doesn't bother me if people say I cannot write.
It bothers me if they don't like my shoes, or if they ignore me in conversation, or if they think my big toe is too big but the writing .... I believe so fanatically in myself I think I must've been called by the fates or the stars in the sky....
But then I'm weird.
You sound you like you like it so why shouldn't someone else? You might get a hastily scrawled note from an editor, (which I cherish like a personal note from Elvis, those I've gotten)

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I tried to write a response to this...but I think instead I'll just say this is certainly another possible way to go. But not one I would advise writer to try without at least some minimal research and preparation.

FossilWriter, my advice is to do the work to give your manuscript every possible opportunity.

~suki

From the sound of the OP's post, FossilWriter's already tried the "send it out and see if you get a nibble" plan. It didn't work.

Yes, I agree with suki-- please don't kill the little darlin' before it sees the light of day. (My words, not suki's. )

Writers have to understand writing for kids and the publishing industry, even though they might have been at this craft for awhile.

That's why we're saying to really read up on writing for kids and submitting.

A chapter book is like Junie B. Jones. Simple language for kids learning to read on their own - sort of a transition between picture books and pictureless books. MG is more like The Lightning Thief or the early Harry Potters. They're for kids in the 8-12 year old range, fully developed plots, sub-plots, characters. Lots of action and more age appropriate language.

FossilWriter said:

Alright - well, based on that description, I guess I have a MG book on my hands. I was a teacher for 10 years (in a classroom) and I wrote it with my 5th grade in mind - so that fits the bill.

I guess my next step is to find someone to critique the manuscript and go from there. Thank you everyone for all your help! If you have any other suggestions, please feel free to drop them my way ( I do appreciate them all).

In the meantime, I'll keep polishing my baby!

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Ok, well, it does sound more like a MG novel then. So...spend some time in the threads on middle grade novels and in the Children's Share Your Work threads.

ETA: FYI - some places will call all books with chapters "Chapter Books." But inside the industry, the definition from Cyia is correct - and it's more likely your book would be a Middle Grade Novel. What's your wordcount? (Use the word count function in Word to check).

And maybe post the first 1,500 words of the manuscript in Children's Share Your Work for critique.

When the manuscript is ready to query agents, check out Query Letter Hell in Share Your Work for all things queries.

~suki

That's pretty short even for MG.

Yeah, 16,000 is on the short side. But get some beta readers or some critique in Share Your Work, and then see where the story stands and if there is anywhere to up the plot.

The bigger issue will be the illustrations. It's going to be harder to sell with illustrations. So, you're going to have to do your market research, see if there is anything out on the MG market like your book, so that you'll know how to market it to agents.

At 16,000 words it's too long for a picture book for older kids (and actually, 5th grade is probably too old for even that kind of product). So... unless it's more like a graphic novel, I'm not sure how you can market it with illustrations.

So, you have some market research and thinking to do.

It's fiction, right? If it's non-fiction, then we need to be having a different conversation .

~suki

I'm thinking that Leviathan (a highly detailed steampunk novel) is illustrated, but that one's YA, and the pictures are awesome. It's not a "lesson" book by any means.

Yeah, and I was thinking of The Invention of Hugo Cabret by Brian Selznick, which is MG and the illustrations are integral, but it's also sort of in a league of its own.

And then maybe Criss Cross, by Lynne Rae Perkins, which is also MG. But in it, the illustrations are accent, not integral.

16K is very short for MG. There's been a trend since Harry Potter. 20 years ago, short books lie SARAH PLAIN AND TALL and THE WHIPPING BOY sold really well. Sarah is 8K, Whipping Boy is 14K. But these days, kids who love to read are taking on books 75K and up. So...

It all depends. A sweet, realistic, contemporary jewel of a book could probably sell at 16K. But it's much more likely that an agent or editor who enjoyed the story would ask you to add more depth/subplot/complexity to the story and bring it up to 30K or so.

But if your artwork really is professional quality and you feel the illustrations are integral to the story, then you probably have a graphic novel in the making. And the market for those is hot. Check out the BABYMOUSE series and see if your book would work in a similar format.

If what you have can be turned into a graphic novel, 16K is probably a good length.

The thread you need to get started on your market research is the Children's Writer's Online Toolkit: http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39596

We've tried to link or reference everything there is about writing for kids, both good books and online resources.

I've heard that Hugo Cabret was incredibly expensive to publish. No way does a debut novelist get that kind of investment on a first book.

Joining SCBWI is great advice. Its an incredibly helpful organization and they have regional chapters (prob one near you). You need to pay a yearly membership fee, but it is worth it.

Alanna B. said:

Joining SCBWI is great advice. Its an incredibly helpful organization and they have regional chapters (prob one near you). You need to pay a yearly membership fee, but it is worth it.

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Really, really, really worth it.

For further great info for new children's writers go to Harold Underdown's website. http://www.underdown.org/ He has articles on everything from whether you need an agent to how to write a query letter. Start with the basics and work your way up. It's all there.

-Debbie

I second Harold Underdown's website. I also like the Institute of Children's Literature (but you don't have to take the courses). They have a lot of past interviews and articles on writing for kids. The info is free.