Which are the real 7 basic plots?

Southpaw · Aug 18, 2010

I’ve found two sets, which do you feel are the true seven?

Set 1

The Quest
Voyage and Return
Rebirth
Comedy
Tragedy
Overcoming the Monster
Rags to Riches

Set 2

[wo]man vs. nature
[wo]man vs. man
[wo]man vs. the environment
[wo]man vs. machines/technology
[wo]man vs. the supernatural
[wo]man vs. self
[wo]man vs. god/religion

Dr.Gonzo · Aug 18, 2010

Some of set 1 isn't plot.

Bufty · Aug 18, 2010

Google - How many plots are there? And take your pick.

Kitty Pryde · Aug 18, 2010

Southpaw said:
I’ve found two sets, which do you feel are the true seven?

Set 1

The Quest

Voyage and Return

Rebirth

Comedy

Tragedy

Overcoming the Monster

Rags to Riches

Set 2

[wo]man vs. nature

[wo]man vs. man

[wo]man vs. the environment

[wo]man vs. machines/technology

[wo]man vs. the supernatural

[wo]man vs. self

[wo]man vs. god/religion

Well, given that the first list comes from the book "The Seven Basic Plots" by Booker, I'm gonna say the first list is the "real list". http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheSevenBasicPlots I dunno where the other list comes from.

And yeah, everything in that list is a type of plot. The book provides numerous book and film examples of each.

Ken · Aug 18, 2010

... going by the lists alone I opt for the second set. The first doesn't tell me much. And I'd suppose that some 'comedies' have the same basic plot as some 'tragedies' and 'quests,' etc. So whoever assembled it is wrong.

Shame on them for disseminating false info.

Dr.Gonzo · Aug 18, 2010

I would never class comedy as a plot.

Devil Ledbetter · Aug 18, 2010

Holy cow. I have never been able to label my book's plot and now I understand why. I'd always skimmed past "Rags to riches" in plot books/articles because nobody gets rich in the story. Doh! I have written a rags to riches story where riches = love.

Thank you for posting that link, Kitty.

Now that I have this info, I'm not entirely sure how to utilize it.

Dr.Gonzo · Aug 18, 2010

Kitty Pryde said:
Well, given that the first list comes from the book "The Seven Basic Plots" by Booker, I'm gonna say the first list is the "real list". http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheSevenBasicPlots I dunno where the other list comes from.

And yeah, everything in that list is a type of plot. The book provides numerous book and film examples of each.

Mmmmkay. So I read it over...

It's not using 'comedy' in the way most would usually expect the word to be used. However, after looking at the definition of said word, I concede the point.

gothicangel · Aug 18, 2010

I think the second is too vague, hiding the 'true' plot.

For example, is the man vs man a romance or crime novel?

Devil Ledbetter · Aug 18, 2010

gothicangel said:
I think the second is too vague, hiding the 'true' plot.

For example, is the man vs man a romance or crime novel?

That's the point. It could be either, or anything else. The basic plot is the basic plot and very bare bones. If we start adding details, it's no longer basic.

Kitty Pryde · Aug 18, 2010

Ken said:
... going by the lists alone I opt for the second set. The first doesn't tell me much. And I'd suppose that some 'comedies' have the same basic plot as some 'tragedies' and 'quests,' etc. So whoever assembled it is wrong.

Shame on them for disseminating false info.

To be fair, the dude wrote an 800 page book explaining what he means by seven basic plots. It doesn't really make sense to glance at the 15 word summary and proclaim it wrong and shame the author.

Booker has his critics (and his breakdown of plots is obviously not the only one), but I suspect most of them have at least read about what he's actually talking about.

Devil Ledbetter · Aug 18, 2010

Kitty Pryde said:
To be fair, the dude wrote an 800 page book explaining what he means by seven basic plots. It doesn't really make sense to glance at the 15 word summary and proclaim it wrong and shame the author.

I just read an Amazon review of Booker's book that complained about him taking 800 pages to explain the plots when they were supposed to be "basic."

He can't please anyone.

Kitty Pryde · Aug 18, 2010

LOL! The book is actually really cool, whether you totally buy into it or not. If you're into tvtropes and otherwise breaking down fiction into the pieces that make it run, it's very interesting. It's easy to browse through and full of interesting examples.

Dr.Gonzo · Aug 18, 2010

Kitty Pryde said:
LOL! The book is actually really cool, whether you totally buy into it or not. If you're into tvtropes and otherwise breaking down fiction into the pieces that make it run, it's very interesting. It's easy to browse through and full of interesting examples.

I read a book that broke down horror: Steven King's Danse Macabre. I loved it.

Southpaw · Aug 18, 2010

I read a blog post this morning that offhandedly methods there are only seven basic plots out there. Since I hadn’t heard this I google the term and found these two sets pretty equally dominating the search engine.

Thanks Kitty for giving people a link.

Here is one for set two: http://www.eyeshot.net/learyplots1.html

I also found this page that said there were 1, 3, 7, 20, 36 plots http://www.ipl.org/div/farq/plotFARQ.html

It’s all kind of interesting.

augusto · Aug 18, 2010

Wrath, greed, gluttony, pride, lust, sloth and envy.

Becky Black · Aug 18, 2010

The first list seems more like basic plot structures (though I'm dubious about comedy and tragedy used in that sense. Comedy especially.)
The second is more the basic conflicts that a plot could be built around. Any (or several) of the basic conflicts might be used within any of the basic structures for a plot.

Jamesaritchie · Aug 18, 2010

Southpaw said:
I’ve found two sets, which do you feel are the true seven?

Set 1

The Quest

Voyage and Return

Rebirth

Comedy

Tragedy

Overcoming the Monster

Rags to Riches

Set 2

[wo]man vs. nature

[wo]man vs. man

[wo]man vs. the environment

[wo]man vs. machines/technology

[wo]man vs. the supernatural

[wo]man vs. self

[wo]man vs. god/religion

Set two repeats itself. We were taught in college that onlu four basic plots exist, and every other so-called basic plot could fit into one of these four. Man against man, man against himself, man against nature, and man against God. I belive it.

I also belive it doesn't matter in the least. No one buys a plot, no one publishes a plot, and no one reads a plot.

pangalactic · Aug 19, 2010

I'm glad somebody else mentioned Booker's book. If you want to really understand plot it's invaluable; it certainly helped me, because I have a tendency to write myself into corners plot-wise and it's useful to be able to look at the basics and say "Yes, I'll do that." Or, on the other hand, to break with tradition completely.

And, besides that, it's just a cracking read, and incredibly interestin (not to mention well-researched).

pangalactic · Aug 19, 2010

Jamesaritchie said:
I also belive it doesn't matter in the least. No one buys a plot, no one publishes a plot, and no one reads a plot.

Also, this.

(Sorry for two posts very close together!)

shaldna · Aug 19, 2010

gothicangel said:
I think the second is too vague, hiding the 'true' plot.

For example, is the man vs man a romance or crime novel?

ah, intersting.

in it's most basic of forms, man vs man is the true plot.

HOW man vs man is just an elaboration on this.

shaldna · Aug 19, 2010

Jamesaritchie said:
Set two repeats itself. We were taught in college that onlu four basic plots exist, and every other so-called basic plot could fit into one of these four. Man against man, man against himself, man against nature, and man against God. I belive it.

This is what I was taught also

cbenoi1 · Aug 19, 2010

http://www.digitalcinemapictures.com/writing/plots.htm

http://www.sff.net/people/julia.west/CALLIHOO/ideagen2.htm

http://www.dramatica.com/theory/theory_book/dtb.html

http://www.divineparadox.com/Arts/archetypes_on_the_path.htm

Take your pick.

-cb

sunandshadow · Aug 19, 2010

Set one more reflect my idea of what plot is, while I would call set two themes, but I see no particular evidence for believing there are only 7 basic plots.

Jamesaritchie · Aug 19, 2010

sunandshadow said:
Set one more reflect my idea of what plot is, while I would call set two themes, but I see no particular evidence for believing there are only 7 basic plots.

I see no evidence at all that there are more than four basic plots, let alone more than seven. Every story I've ever read fits neatly into the four basic ones.

There are millions of stories, but only four basic plots, which is why I believe so many writers get into trouble by trying to plot, rather than by trying to tell a story.

Which are the real 7 basic plots?

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