Freedom by Jonathan Franzen

I'm approaching the halfway point and it's been spectacular so far...

I have it--I'm going to start after I finish ROOM by Emma Donoghue. Everyone I know who has read it has raved.

Likewise, T.N. Tobias - I started it a couple of days ago and am really enjoying it.

I started it today. It's mezmerizing.

I finished it this weekend. My review is on my blog.

I'm still in the middle of it. I keep taking my Kindle to bed with me at night to read, but I can only manage a few pages before I drift away, which is unfortunate because I am really enjoying it. Damn you 6:30am alarm!

TerzaRima said:

All the reviews are mash notes.

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I've never heard this expression before -- what does it mean, bad or good?
I assume good since everyone here seems to be raving!

I read the first page on Amazon through the book preview thing and actually found myself grinning by the end of it, because it was so good! If I'd been in a bookstore and had a physical copy in my hands, I don't think I would've been able to resist buying.

Freedom

I loved Franzen's "The Corrections," and I was very excited when I finally got "Freedom." However, it was a huge disappointment. Perhaps if it wasn't hyped up so much as the Greatest American Novel of Our Generation, I would feel differently. But I honestly feel that it just completely failed to live up to my expectations. Did anyone else feel this way? Or am I in the minority?

It seems I'm a little late in responding to this, but...

Yes, I felt the same way you did about Freedom, although I think the let-down for me was more because of how much I liked The Corrections, rather than Freedom's critical response.

That said, I think I may want to reread it at some point... skimming through parts of it again made me appreciate that much of the writing is really quite good, even though the book as a whole was a disappointment.

It's entirely possible the book will grow on me, because Franzen's novels are always deeply layered and have a lot to discover after the first dip. Someone the other day pointed out to me the funniness of Walter's hatred of cats, in light of Richard's last name being Katz. I know there were quite a few things like that in The Corrections that I only noticed after reading it a second time.

It would be fun to discuss the book, if you or anyone else is interested.

I won't deny that it was well written, but I also can't help but feel a bit cheated by the plot. I had a difficult time relating to the characters, which possibly contributed to my frustration. Or rather, I quite disliked the characters. I found that their flaws very much overpowered their redeeming qualities, which is not entirely realistic. (In my opinion, the only well-rounded character in the novel was Richard. Everyone else was almost like a comical caricature, especially Patty's family and relatives). All that added to the overall negative feelings that I associate with the novel.

I might give it another go in a year or two, because, like you, I also really liked The Corrections.

Unlikeable characters was one of the criticisms I heard a lot about The Corrections, too. With Freedom, I actually thought Richard was probably the least well-rounded character, and the least likeable. Richard never seemed to be justified in being an asshole, whereas I thought Franzen was careful to justify Walter quite a bit more, and to some extent with Joey, too.

And Joey feels a decent amount of remorse, several times. The biggest time was probably when he felt regret about selling the shoddy truck parts to the army, but the instance that really moved me was when he got off the phone with Carol, who had made him feel bad about Connie.

As if to reassure himself that Carol had been wrong about him, he wept a little in the darkness, on his bench. Wept for Connie in her misery, wept for having abandoned her to Carol - for not being the person who could save her.

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I really like that passage. And Joey eventually grows up by the end of the book, more than anyone else, in my opinion.

I do agree with you about some of Patty's family being comical caricatures, especially Abigail. Her character was frankly terrible, which is a shame because - being a minor character - it wasn't even necessary to develop her very much. It's just that what Franzen wrote about her was silly (like the stuff about her going to Europe for a miming workshop). Obviously he was trying to make her silly, but it came off as just bad, rather than amusing, imo.

Anyway, that's interesting that you didn't like these characters but didn't have a problem with The Corrections. I can't think of anyone in Freedom as unlikeable as Gary Lambert.

Michael Wolfe said:

Unlikeable characters was one of the criticisms I heard a lot about The Corrections, too. With Freedom, I actually thought Richard was probably the least well-rounded character, and the least likeable. Richard never seemed to be justified in being an asshole, whereas I thought Franzen was careful to justify Walter quite a bit more, and to some extent with Joey, too.

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What I liked about Richard was that he seemed remarkably self aware. Yes, he was an asshole, and he knew it. He didn't try to reason it away, or justify it, or explain it somehow and make it Ok. Whereas Walter and Patty seemed to be very much in denial about the assholes they held inside. Know what I mean? You are right in that Richard's bad behavior was not justified, and that is precisely what I liked, because bad behavior should not be justified. And you are right in that Walter's (and Patty's) bad behavior was justified, and that is what I didn't like. I felt like Franzen was making excuses for these characters, and that just left a bad taste with me.

Also, Joey's redemption seemed a bit forced.

What I did enjoy is how Patty seemed to turn into her father. I'm talking about the scene where she visits Jessica in college and goes out to dinner with her and Jessica's boyfriend. She was rude and drunk and obnoxious, just like her dad was when Patty was a teenager. I thought that was nicely done.

I saw Ray's character as being pretty different from Patty, actually. The scene with Jessica was more of an exception. She wasn't typically obnoxious - drinking usually just made her depressed. And Ray had an interesting redemption at the end - we see all of the people Ray defended as a lawyer show up at his funeral; his death really meant something to people.

As for Richard... that's interesting that you liked him because of his bad behavior. I agree with you - he didn't try to justify it or rationalize it. But... there was little in terms of any redeeming qualities, anything to balance it out. Walter, for example, had an interesting goal - to save the world. Richard, on the other hand, seemed to lack positive goals. Plus he betrayed his best friend, by sleeping with Patty. That's pretty low, don't you think?

The one semi-redemptive thing with Richard was the CD he made for Walter at the end, but that was it, and it seemed like more of a hint that Richard's relationship with Walter might change in the future, not that Richard himself would really change.

Also, I agree with you about Patty and Walter being in denial about themselves. But to me that sounds entirely logical and understandable. After all, how many people would be introspective enough to label themselves as assholes?

Michael Wolfe said:

I saw Ray's character as being pretty different from Patty, actually. The scene with Jessica was more of an exception. She wasn't typically obnoxious - drinking usually just made her depressed. And Ray had an interesting redemption at the end - we see all of the people Ray defended as a lawyer show up at his funeral; his death really meant something to people.

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I think there was an important theme about how children don't really understand their parents, at least not until they get much older. It's not that Ray became a better person at the end of his life. It's just that Patty saw the better parts of him as she got older, and her own life gave her more perspective. I think the scene with Jessica brought that together, because we were shown how her daughter is viewing her the same way Patty viewed her father.

As for Richard... that's interesting that you liked him because of his bad behavior. I agree with you - he didn't try to justify it or rationalize it. But... there was little in terms of any redeeming qualities, anything to balance it out. Walter, for example, had an interesting goal - to save the world. Richard, on the other hand, seemed to lack positive goals. Plus he betrayed his best friend, by sleeping with Patty. That's pretty low, don't you think?

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It's not that I think Richard is a good person, but I do like the way that character was developed. He was unapologetic, because he knew that no apologies would suffice. Patty betrayed her husband by sleeping with someone else, but Franzen gave her many excuses for that. Whereas Richard was never given a free pass for his bad behavior.

The one semi-redemptive thing with Richard was the CD he made for Walter at the end, but that was it, and it seemed like more of a hint that Richard's relationship with Walter might change in the future, not that Richard himself would really change.

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You know, I don't like that end. They way he tied it up was all a bit corny. I don't know what he could have done differently, but it was just a bit too phony for me.

Also, I agree with you about Patty and Walter being in denial about themselves. But to me that sounds entirely logical and understandable. After all, how many people would be introspective enough to label themselves as assholes?

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I hear what you are saying, but I don't think Patty and Walter really reflect how most real people are. Maybe it's a generational/life experience thing, but I really just couldn't connect to them.

sleepsheep said:

I think there was an important theme about how children don't really understand their parents, at least not until they get much older. It's not that Ray became a better person at the end of his life. It's just that Patty saw the better parts of him as she got older, and her own life gave her more perspective. I think the scene with Jessica brought that together, because we were shown how her daughter is viewing her the same way Patty viewed her father.

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Oh yes, Jessica's view of Patty during that scene definitely was similar to how Patty thought of Ray. I agree with that.

It's not that I think Richard is a good person, but I do like the way that character was developed. He was unapologetic, because he knew that no apologies would suffice. Patty betrayed her husband by sleeping with someone else, but Franzen gave her many excuses for that. Whereas Richard was never given a free pass for his bad behavior.

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Yeah, I know what you're saying. And it's weird, too, because Patty's view of Richard as a potential sex partner was pretty much the same as Richard's - he was an itch she needed to scratch.

And to add on to that - even though Franzen gave Patty excuses, he did punish her more thoroughly than he punished Richard, don't you think?

You know, I don't like that end. They way he tied it up was all a bit corny. I don't know what he could have done differently, but it was just a bit too phony for me.

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The CD was interesting to me. One of the subtle things about that CD was the first track was a title that Walter had come up with, back in college.

And yet, in Richard's final scene (when he runs into Patty in New York) he basically said he had no intention of ever calling Walter or apologizing. The CD was a kind of phony apology, in a sense, and given Richard's nature, him doing that hardly seemed phony at all.

I hear what you are saying, but I don't think Patty and Walter really reflect how most real people are. Maybe it's a generational/life experience thing, but I really just couldn't connect to them.

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Did you at least connect with them moreso when they were in college? I think I did, myself.

Michael Wolfe said:

Yeah, I know what you're saying. And it's weird, too, because Patty's view of Richard as a potential sex partner was pretty much the same as Richard's - he was an itch she needed to scratch.

And to add on to that - even though Franzen gave Patty excuses, he did punish her more thoroughly than he punished Richard, don't you think?

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I guess it depends on your perspective. Patty had an opportunity to grow and evolve, and eventually, return to the family that she cherished. So basically Patty came out ahead - she got to have her fling with Richard, she got to reconnect with her parents, she got to experience independence, she discovered herself and her potential, and then she was able to return to her husband and her family and live happily ever after. Whereas Richard remained miserable and alone. He had his career, but I think Franzen made a point of showing how Richard remained the same empty, miserable person that he was at the beginning, except he lost his best friend. Walter forgave Patty, and took her back, but even despite the CD, I don't think that Walter would ever let Richard back into his life.

The CD was interesting to me. One of the subtle things about that CD was the first track was a title that Walter had come up with, back in college.

And yet, in Richard's final scene (when he runs into Patty in New York) he basically said he had no intention of ever calling Walter or apologizing. The CD was a kind of phony apology, in a sense, and given Richard's nature, him doing that hardly seemed phony at all.

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I'm not sure what to make of it. I agree with you, but it was a corny sort of way to end it. I guess what I liked about it is that it served to emphasize how self-absorbed Richard was, even in his love for Walter, and even in his apology. It sort of summarized Richard's relationship with Walter.

Did you at least connect with them moreso when they were in college? I think I did, myself.

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Not even a little bit. Nor did I connect with Joey and Jessica. (Jessica, by the way, seemed like a particularly flat character). This reminds me of something Henry Rollins once said about Kerouac's On The Road - "this is like no life I've ever known." That's how I feel about Freedom.

It just occurred to me that this thread should have a big SPOILER warning at the beginning.

sleepsheep said:

I guess it depends on your perspective. Patty had an opportunity to grow and evolve, and eventually, return to the family that she cherished. So basically Patty came out ahead - she got to have her fling with Richard, she got to reconnect with her parents, she got to experience independence, she discovered herself and her potential, and then she was able to return to her husband and her family and live happily ever after. Whereas Richard remained miserable and alone. He had his career, but I think Franzen made a point of showing how Richard remained the same empty, miserable person that he was at the beginning.

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I don't think I would agree with much of that. Especially about Richard. Here's an excerpt from Richard's final scene in the book...

In the bar where they alighted, Richard listened to Patty's news of herself with the halved attention of a man who's busy and successful. He seemed finally to have made peace with his success - he mentioned, without embarrassment or apology, that he'd done one of those avant-garde orchestral thingies with the Brooklyn Academy of Music, and that his current girlfriend, who is apparently a big-deal documentary-maker, had introduced him to various young directors of the kind of art-house movies that Walter always loved, and that some scoring projects were in the works. Patty allowed herself one small pang at the thought of how relatively contented he seemed, and another small pang at the thought of his high-powered girlfriend, before turning the subject, as always, to Walter.

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So, I don't think Richard is really miserable at the end.

As for Patty, she didn't quite reconnect with Joyce, and her relationship with Joey is still not great. She did get back Walter, which is certainly important, but still, she lost more than Richard did to begin with, and she only recovered some of it. And I don't see her quite living happily ever after.

I haven't read this yet but plan to based on my like of his writing and the critical response.

I did hear a review on NPR, though, that said, while Franzen is clearly an amazing writer, the book fails because he has too much disdain for his characters and that ultimately shines through. I liked the Corrections a lot, but thought it still had the problem of lacking depth and nuance with the characters. Especially with the oldest brother and his family. At the end of the book, I didn't feel like I "knew" any of the characters really.

I'm really enjoying it so far! About halfway through. "Mistakes Were Made" was a bit drawn-out, but I couldn't stop reading. I think it's a really great portrait of the general depression that 9/11-era Americans face today. Just the complete death of our country's spirit.

Definitely draining, but I can't put it down.