Modern technology in fantasy world?

Brochfael · Feb 16, 2011

My first novel is a heroic/high fantasy. However, instead of ancient-medieval technology we have become used to, the world in the book is at a level of technological advancement almost identical to ours, particularly military technology. There are things like cars, planes, satellites, computers, even UAV's. However people still maintain a Victorian/19th century culture.

Lately I'm worried that this approach will seem a bit... silly. Don't get me wrong, I like this approach, but I'm worried that people will think I'm just trying to find an easy answer to problems that could be solved much more creatively with the level of technology found in traditional fantasy.

I know many of you are probably thinking I should just reclassify the genre as Sci-Fi. It's not Sci-Fi. There are supernatural elements that are crucial to the plot; however they will manifest themselves in more subtle ways than we're used to in traditional fantasy, no wizards and liches. The more "down-to-earth" aspects will steal the show for most of the story. The supernatural elements will be more spiritual in nature, exerting their influence from behind-the-scenes. So that's why I don't really classify it as Sci-Fi, technology will have a lot of face-time, but it's involvement will be more-or-less superficial.

So what do you think? Would modern technology be an interesting and unique element to add to the fantasy genre, or would it just come off as being silly and unnecessary?

Xiri · Feb 16, 2011

Could that be steampunk?

Hopefully, others will be a lot more helpful - good luck

P.S. I personally don't see anything silly about this, then again, I am not well-read in fantasy.

Brochfael · Feb 16, 2011

Xiri said:
Could that be steampunk?

Hopefully, others will be a lot more helpful - good luck

P.S. I personally don't see anything silly about this, then again, I am not well-read in fantasy.

Like I said: Steam Punk is, to my understanding, based around Steam tech, which is signifigantly less advanced than what I'm talking about.

Xiri · Feb 16, 2011

My bad. For all I've noticed, it also meant Victorian age style societies and fantasy / science fiction.

Stand corrected

MJNL · Feb 16, 2011

Urban fantasy, perhaps? Assuming it's in the city, and only Victorian culture is what makes it 19th century-like, and not any tech or clothing or such.

Most urban fantasy is set in the here and now tech wise. And if it's not actually the 19th century, then what you're describing is Victorian-era-like, right? Not the Victorian era itself. Which is then, technically, just a different culture from the one you live in (I'm guessing. After all, etiquette, social standards, and expectations that are similar to the Victorian-era culture still exist in many places today).

Actually, if the fantasy element itself isn't very strong (spiritual happenings in the background, you said) it could just be alternate history--the tech progressed, but the culture did not.

Or maybe even a bit of magic-realism, assuming there's maybe one fantastical element that everyone takes for granted in an other wise normal, real-world setting.

Or it could be a mish-mash of the above. I'd say look into those three genre's to help you get a better picture of where your story fits.

ETA: Or, it could just be a modern fantasy. But, that might get confused with modern fairy-tale. I'd still look into it, though

Olga · Feb 16, 2011

I think modern technology can add an interesting element to fantasy without making it Sci-Fi. The only thing I would be a bit worried about is the way technology affects society, and how modern technology can mesh with 19-century culture. If you can put some logic behind it, you should be fine.

Buffysquirrel · Feb 16, 2011

Provided you establish how a bunch of gentlemanly, amateur scientists have managed to produce all this technology

.

MJNL · Feb 16, 2011

Oh, just wanted to add that sci-fi by definition requires there be tech and information that we don't currently have. Making something modern-tech-only actually precludes it from being sci-fi in any way. Fantastical elements and fictional-science are not the same thing.

Brochfael · Feb 16, 2011

MJNL said:
Urban fantasy, perhaps? Assuming it's in the city, and only Victorian culture is what makes it 19th century-like, and not any tech or clothing or such.

Most urban fantasy is set in the here and now tech wise. And if it's not actually the 19th century, then what you're describing is Victorian-era-like, right? Not the Victorian era itself. Which is then, technically, just a different culture from the one you live in (I'm guessing. After all, etiquette, social standards, and expectations that are similar to the Victorian-era culture still exist in many places today).

Actually, if the fantasy element itself isn't very strong (spiritual happenings in the background, you said) it could just be alternate history--the tech progressed, but the culture did not.

Or maybe even a bit of magic-realism, assuming there's maybe one fantastical element that everyone takes for granted in an other wise normal, real-world setting.

Or it could be a mish-mash of the above. I'd say look into those three genre's to help you get a better picture of where your story fits.

ETA: Or, it could just be a modern fantasy. But, that might get confused with modern fairy-tale. I'd still look into it, though

Something I should probably have added is that it does not take place in our world. It's entirely fictional, like middle-earth.

The cultures in it are based on those of 19th century superpowers and political hot-spots. So naturally, there is a lot of the British Empire from around Victoria's time in there. Elements like fashion and architecture will also be carried over.

So again, this is a completely fantastical planet with modern technology but societies based on 19th century cultures. That's just the bare-bones of it, hope it doesn't sound to ridiculous.

Buffysquirrel said:
Provided you establish how a bunch of gentlemanly, amateur scientists have managed to produce all this technology .

Mistrust and rivalries between world leaders and religions make the diplomatic climate of my world far more fragile. Large-scale wars occur often. As such demand for more advanced weaponry is higher. Civilian tech is mostly reversed engineered from military tech where possible and when the elites will allow it.

efkelley · Feb 16, 2011

I always enjoy a tech/magic mashup. I'd read it.

heretic_scribe · Feb 16, 2011

It could be cool, as long as there was a solid explanation as to why the culture didn't evolve along the same paths as the real world, at the same time that the technology also advanced, since technological innovation and cultural renovation often go hand in hand, with one continually inspiring advances in the other.

It isn't Victorian era, but a similar idea was used in the Fallout games, where the technology was equal to (or beyond) current real world tech, but the culture maintained a 1950-era cold war theme.

MJNL · Feb 16, 2011

Ooh, yes, Fallout is a good example (minus the zombies) of the kind of thing I think you're talking about. Not sure what the genre is, though, technically speaking.

AVbd · Feb 16, 2011

I think it's more the execution than the actual idea that could make something like this silly. In my current fantasy world, I'm planning to write books that are set centuries after the current ones, with the technology advancing in a way different to the modern world — in particular, being heavily influenced by the ‘magic’ system and incorporating that into the technologies.

So one question that I'd ask would be: how does the magic affect the development of technology? And a related question is what have we discovered that they haven't, and vice versa?

I think that a decent amount of science fiction is, actually, a sort of blend of fantasy and technology, where some aspect of the world is changed and the author examines how that affects the culture or some individuals — like being able to travel through time, or a limited ability to see into the future. These aren't really ‘science’ elements, but it's given that there's a ‘scientific’ explanation for these just so that the magic element doesn't seem like a crutch.

So if you did it right, you could certainly have an interesting story, and it's definitely something I might be interested in (with the caveat of course that it'd have to be executed well enough).

Also, urban fantasy tends to have magic ‘hidden’ in some way so that it can pretend that it's set in the real world, and that we just don't notice the magical things going on. Or at least that's the impression I get.

amergina · Feb 16, 2011

The book I'm querying is a secondary-world (i.e., not Earth) fantasy set in a modern society (with humans and an elf-like race, to boot).

I tend to describe it (in person, not in my query) as a high fantasy trapped in the body of an urban fantasy. Epic issues, but packed into five days and one city.

Satchan · Feb 16, 2011

Sounds interesting to me. ^_^ No rules that say a high fantasy has to be in a medieval-style setting. As long as you world-build adequately, it should be just fine.

I've actually got a world kind of like this....futuristic world, but touches of magic here and there.

Brochfael · Feb 17, 2011

heretic_scribe said:
It could be cool, as long as there was a solid explanation as to why the culture didn't evolve along the same paths as the real world, at the same time that the technology also advanced, since technological innovation and cultural renovation often go hand in hand, with one continually inspiring advances in the other.

heretic_scribe said:
It isn't Victorian era, but a similar idea was used in the Fallout games, where the technology was equal to (or beyond) current real world tech, but the culture maintained a 1950-era cold war theme.

Like I said, the culture doesn't evolve because the driving-force behind the technological advancement is the development of weapons. Civilians only have access to what can be reverse-engineered from the latest weapons.

AVbd said:
I think it's more the execution than the actual idea that could make something like this silly. In my current fantasy world, I'm planning to write books that are set centuries after the current ones, with the technology advancing in a way different to the modern world — in particular, being heavily influenced by the ‘magic’ system and incorporating that into the technologies.

So one question that I'd ask would be: how does the magic affect the development of technology? And a related question is what have we discovered that they haven't, and vice versa?

It's not so much what technologies they have discovered but how they apply them. For example: due to international distrust there is no "World Wide Web". People have only the most basic methods of communication, such as phone and mail. Tech that could be used to create things like the Iphone instead get's used to make bombs and missiles more accurate. The elites are very controlling and fearful of revolution. Their OK with new tech, as long as it's first use is to increase and secure their own power; like war. If you tried to invent anything like the internet you'd probably be arrested.

AVbd said:
I think that a decent amount of science fiction is, actually, a sort of blend of fantasy and technology, where some aspect of the world is changed and the author examines how that affects the culture or some individuals — like being able to travel through time, or a limited ability to see into the future. These aren't really ‘science’ elements, but it's given that there's a ‘scientific’ explanation for these just so that the magic element doesn't seem like a crutch.

The "magic" in my book are well-beyond the capacities of scientific explanation. As I said, the supernatural elements of my book are more spiritual than magical, dealing with more subtle things like life-after-death rather than mages and dragons.

amergina · Feb 17, 2011

Huh. Sounds cool. Write it. Polish it. Query it. See what happens.

Maxx · Feb 17, 2011

Brochfael said:
My first novel is a heroic/high fantasy. However, instead of ancient-medieval technology we have become used to, the world in the book is at a level of technological advancement almost identical to ours, particularly military technology. There are things like cars, planes, satellites, computers, even UAV's. However people still maintain a Victorian/19th century culture.

Isn't that what actually happened? Aren't we taught to scoff at Freud and science in general? Aren't we using UAVs right now to shoot missiles at a tribal society?

FOTSGreg · Feb 17, 2011

I used to run some DnD games in a specially-developed fantasy world where 19th century firearms and magic worked together. The world was very "Old West" in style and play, but a few diehards didn't care for it thinking that magic and technology should remain separate and inviolate (this despite the fact that TSR released a couple of crashed starship and robot high technology vs magic modules back in the day). It was simple to deflect their arguments as "what we see and know as a handgun is simply a reload able wand of magic missiles".

We had a lot of fun in that world after that (and not a few epic adventures as well).

It was a world with a huge amount of promise for a fantasy series (I still have the maps around here somewhere)....

MkMoore · Feb 17, 2011

I think it sounds like a great idea. Go for it. Different is good.

Gnostic Knight · Feb 17, 2011

Keep in mind that with new technology comes new social dynamics. Feudalism would have to go out the door, and mass production would take over. Urban centers would be the focal points due to employment in factories and the rural country side would loose it's political clot.

The closest thing I can think of would be Eberron from D&D, where all the races live in these cities with slums, class warfare, etc, even though that world uses magic as technology as opposed to modern technology.

Also keep in mind that with the airplane, the entire world would be mapped out. So the whole "quest into an unknown area" thing would be a memory. That's one of the issues with modern technology, no more blank spots on the maps.

It would be interesting to see how different species's would cope with living in an urban environment. Would there be discrimination? Urban tribalism? Closes real world parallel would be "Gangs of New York" I suppose.

efkelley · Feb 17, 2011

AVbd said:
So one question that I'd ask would be: how does the magic affect the development of technology? And a related question is what have we discovered that they haven't, and vice versa?

Technology and magic are two systems by which people control the natural world to meet their needs. Generally, when you discover a means to meet a need, you stop looking into new ways to meet that need until a new innovation comes along.

Take plumbing. We use pipes and sewers to keep flush waste away from our living areas. In a magical realm, my chamberpot is enchanted to banish the poo to another dimension, or simply conjure the waste away.

As needs change and technology/magic improves, other systems evolve. Take Star Trek. Aboard the Enterprise the toilets probably reduce the waste down into its constituent energy, saving space and recycling the resource. In a modern magic/tech world where we know about the nutrient value of fertilizers, perhaps my chamberpots are enchanted to banish the waste to a treatment/recycling plant. Or perhaps the spell handles that for me and the resultant fertilizers are banishes to the nearest fields.

One other thing to consider is ease of use. Anyone can use a toilet. Can anyone use a magic chamberpot? Or do you need to know some magic yourself to banish the contents? Technology use relies on people with arms, legs, hands, eyes, and ears, and (occasionally) intelligence. What does magic rely on? Anyone in our world can pick up a phone (if they know how to dial and know where to talk/listen), but not everyone knows how it works exactly. Is the magic in your world the same?

Anyway, just some rambling while I'm waxing the cat. Hope its useful in some way.

Shuemais · Feb 17, 2011

“Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.” -- Arthur C. Clarke

Technology and magic can co-exist, most definitely. If you're having trouble explaining why it exists by scientific means, explain it in terms of history. Perhaps a certain event did or didn't happen which explains why this particular storybook world has dragons and 747s competing for airspace over O'Hare.

FOTSGreg · Feb 17, 2011

In my world the class distinctions between species had hardened rather than softened - to the extent that people believed that "the only good Orc is a dead Orc" and many practices that we would think of today as ghastly were approved of.

Racism was a matter of course. Being a member if a race that was not in power in a region was to be one of a downtrodden minority unless you could back it up with steel, power, magic, or technology.

Hallen · Feb 17, 2011

Brochfael said:
The "magic" in my book are well-beyond the capacities of scientific explanation. As I said, the supernatural elements of my book are more spiritual than magical, dealing with more subtle things like life-after-death rather than mages and dragons.

Look up the thread here on "Magic Realism". I think it's more based on our modern world with magic thrown in. However, it's probably the same in your case except you've developed an alternate reality.

Can it work? Sure. Look at things like The Chronicles of Riddick. It's advanced cultures with unabashed magic thrown in. Most space operas are that way to one degree or another, they just try to explain it off as technology. Even in Star Gate SG1, the whole concept of "assention" is really magic. Dune is another great example. They never use the magic word that I know of, but things that happen can only be described as magic. How you handle it is up to you. Is it a hidden, secret society? Or, is it something that's common place? How you handle that will dictate how your characters deal with it. So, don't worry about mixing things up. It's the story that really matters.

Modern technology in fantasy world?

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