Copyrighting

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banjo

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At what point in the process do you copyright your work? I've heard coflicting recommendations on this, and I'd really like to hear, when you do it.
 

aadams73

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You don't. The publisher takes care of that.
 

mesh138

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CD

I don't know what's wrong or right, but I save all my work onto CD and then mail a copy to myself so that it shows the postmarked date. Maybe this would hold up in a court of law, maybe it wouldn't. It just gives me the impression that my writing is so good that everyone out there is trying to rip me off.
 

jules

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Generally speaking, the publisher registers copyright of the work. Registration isn't necessary for protection, though, and you can register even after the work is published.

"Poor man's copyright", which is what mesh138 describes, is next to useless. It's not worth the cost of postage, because it is too trivial to fake (post yourself some empty envelopes, then put stuff in them when you need to prove something).

If you're worried about proving you wrote something, make sure you keep early revisions, notes that you make while writing it, things like that. Show it to somebody else (preferably not a family member) who you think would support you in court by saying they've seen it on a particular date.
 

jst5150

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US Copyright Office

The US Copyright Office has some fantastic, easy-to-understand information on its Web site. Be sure to check out copyright basics. In a nutshell, the moment you put pen to paper, inked keys to paper or electrons to screen; and save it with some sort of permanence, it's copyrighted. Just don't make it available on eDonkey. ;-)
 
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Aconite

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A minor, nitpicky point: Strictly speaking, you're talking about registering the copyright, not copyrighting, but everyone uses "copyrighting" to mean "registering the copyright," so no worries.
 

September skies

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mesh138 said:
I don't know what's wrong or right, but I save all my work onto CD and then mail a copy to myself so that it shows the postmarked date. Maybe this would hold up in a court of law, maybe it wouldn't. It just gives me the impression that my writing is so good that everyone out there is trying to rip me off.

I had a teacher in high school who used to tell us to do this. And as long as we didn't open the envelope, she said it would work.

Then in college, we were told not to worry about it.

But I always wondered.
 

James D. Macdonald

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September skies said:
I had a teacher in high school who used to tell us to do this. And as long as we didn't open the envelope, she said it would work.

Then in college, we were told not to worry about it.

But I always wondered.

It's a total Urban Legend. A Writer's Myth.
 

jules

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Not just writers. It went around the computer games world back in the 80s, too. Probably still does, but I don't pay much attention to that any more.
 

Aconite

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banjo said:
Congratulations Aconite!
Thank you, banjo. They make me feel all glittery. :)

(For anyone who missed the joke, my sig is a reference to awards "won" by paying for them.)
 

maestrowork

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emeraldcite said:
copyrighting also dates your book. that could be a bad thing if it takes 10 years to sell.

I think that's an important point. Say, you write your book in 2002, copyright it. But you can't find a publisher until 2005, and the book won't be published until 2007. So what is the date of your copyright? 2002? Your book will be severely dated. Not to mention you won't be eligible for any current awards because they ALL require a recent copyright date.
 

veinglory

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BTW I see thw Sept/Oct Writer's journal has an article that actually supports the 'poor man's copyright' myth. 'Poof' goes the last of my respect for that magazine.
 

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WD

veinglory said:
BTW I see thw Sept/Oct Writer's journal has an article that actually supports the 'poor man's copyright' myth. 'Poof' goes the last of my respect for that magazine.

A couple of years ago, in their question and answer section, they told a writer a cover letter and a query letter are the same thing.

I think some of the columnists and writers for WD are very good, but the editors there seem completely clueless.
 

DamaNegra

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I've had the same doubt as banjo. Do I copyright my work before I send it to an agent/editor? Or do I send it to an agent/editor and let them handle the copyright stuff??
 

maestrowork

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DamaNegra said:
I've had the same doubt as banjo. Do I copyright my work before I send it to an agent/editor? Or do I send it to an agent/editor and let them handle the copyright stuff??

I think someone already answered this. The publisher handles it, once they buy your book and offer you a contract.
 

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veinglory said:
BTW I see thw Sept/Oct Writer's journal has an article that actually supports the 'poor man's copyright' myth. 'Poof' goes the last of my respect for that magazine.
Remember, WJ is the magazine that gave the proprietors of Edit Ink a recurring column on "Ask the Editor" that continued for two years after they were indicted.
 

katdad

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banjo said:
At what point in the process do you copyright your work? I've heard coflicting recommendations on this, and I'd really like to hear, when you do it.

You should copyright your work when it's finished, even if you're intending to do some more revisions and editing. The general copyright will stand, even if there is a revised version extant.

And yes, the publisher also copyrights, but I recommend you do it too.
 

katdad

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September skies said:
I had a teacher in high school who used to tell us to do this. And as long as we didn't open the envelope, she said it would work.

Then in college, we were told not to worry about it.

But I always wondered.

The "poor man's" copyright method is nearly useless. As has been said, it's too prone to fudging.
 

katdad

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maestrowork said:
I think that's an important point. Say, you write your book in 2002, copyright it. But you can't find a publisher until 2005, and the book won't be published until 2007. So what is the date of your copyright? 2002? Your book will be severely dated. Not to mention you won't be eligible for any current awards because they ALL require a recent copyright date.

Not so. The earlier copyright stands until it's re-registered by your publisher with a new date.
 

Jamesaritchie

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copyright

katdad said:
You should copyright your work when it's finished, even if you're intending to do some more revisions and editing. The general copyright will stand, even if there is a revised version extant.

And yes, the publisher also copyrights, but I recommend you do it too.

I've never found a good or logical reason to do this. It just isn't necessary.
 

Jaws

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(1) The correct language is "register your copyright." Although many people talk about "copyrighting," since 01 January 1978 that has been improper language in the US—and long before that in the rest of the world. If you're going to talk about a legal formality, use the language of the legal formality.

(2) The "date" of the copyright matters only in very, very rare circumstances. For works by natural persons that are not works for hire, the term is based upon the author's life plus (at present) 70 years, regardless of the amount of time between creation and publication. For works by organizations and works for hire, the term is the shorter of (95 years after publication) (120 years after creation). That is, only if a work by an organization or work for hire takes more than 25 years to go from creation to publication does the date of copyright matter!

(3) On very rare occasions, one may need to register a manuscript. Even so, don't mark the manuscript with a copyright notice—that is one of the dreaded Marks of the Amateur that will get the manuscript unceremoniously bounced without reading by many editors and agents (particularly in fiction). If you're sending a work to an editor or agent who is so desperate that he/she'll "steal" it, he/she isn't going to be deterred by a copyright notice.

(4) The Poor Man's Copyright is a myth. It has been obsolete since 1909. Really. The myth really has two sources, neither of them in copyright law.
  • On the one hand, patent law prior to the 1953 revision of the Patent Act made authenticating lab notebooks much more difficult than it is now—and, in patent law, the exact date of conception, the exact date of successful reduction to practice, and a number of other exact dates are extremely critical in ways completely irrelevant in copyright law (with only very, very rare exceptions). This trickled its way into wretched little books purporting to advise inventors on how to protect their inventions. These, in turn, ended up as references used to prepare a couple of popular writers' manuals in the 1960s (note that this is after the changes in the Patent Act!), and things have just snowballed.
  • On the other hand, the Poor Man's Copyright is at its core an attempt to ensure admissibility of evidence in a broad sense. Since the adoption of the Federal Rules of Evidence three decades ago, records ordinarily kept in the course of business are much easier to get admitted for the truth of those records. Thus, the carefully kept submission log (since that is the record one must have for tax purposes) and record printout will, in all but the strangest cases, do everything that the Poor Man's Copyright purports to do.
My point is that the Poor Man's Copyright doesn't do anything that simple decent recordkeeping won't. Remember, too, that independent conception is a complete defense in copyright matters (unlike in patent and trademark matters), so the kinds of records one might use to prove independent conception—such as earlier drafts—aren't what most people would think to include in a poor man's package anyway, and are better kept in their original form (computer files on backup disks) anyway.
 

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Well this clears up a lot! I have already copyrighted my work, but now I know not to add the mark when sending to an agent. In fact I am re-formatting my entire manuscript as a result of joining this forum. Thank you all..
 
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