When is paraphrasing plagiarism?

aruna · May 31, 2011

How much can you change a text, when it's just basic facts? For instance, say I want to add a short biography of someone I've quoted and I get the facts from the preface of his book. There are only so many ways you can say "XXX was born in Liverpool and studied at Oxford" and so on." Just basic stuff like that, nothing creative. I'm afraid it will be obvious I got the info from the preface, even though I change things around a bit. Where's the line? How do I do this?

veinglory · May 31, 2011

If you use your own words it is not plagiarism per se but my still be considered dishonest if the facts are not widely known (e.g. are the discovery of the other author) and credit is not given to that author. Even if the facts are widely know I would suggest confirming them with multiple sources as close to primary as possibe as errors can quickly become entrenched if they get reused without a check for accuracy. Some text book publishers are terrible for this.

PinkAmy · May 31, 2011

Facts are facts, they aren't plagiarized unless you copy the wording of someone else. You're right, there are only so many ways you can say so-and-so was born on X date in X city, LOL.

Deleted member 42 · May 31, 2011

Just footnote the source and if you use exactly the same words in the same order, put it in quotation marks. But usually it's pretty easy to change it up.

Born in Liverpool, John Doe studied at Oxford University.

veinglory · May 31, 2011

PinkAmy said:
Facts are facts, they aren't plagiarized unless you copy the wording of someone else. You're right, there are only so many ways you can say so-and-so was born on X date in X city, LOL.

Other types of fact, however, may have been discovered by that author--who should be credited with the discovery.

Deleted member 42 · May 31, 2011

Citations are your friend; if you publisher/editor hates them, they are easily removed.

But it's a PITA to reconstruct them--says she who has provided such a service to authors who were a mite too casual.

aruna · May 31, 2011

Thanks to everyone! Is there a thread on AW about the proper handling of citations? And is it a big no-no to cite Wikipedia?

Deleted member 42 · May 31, 2011

aruna said:
Thanks to everyone! Is there a thread on AW about the proper handling of citations? And is it a big no-no to cite Wikipedia?

Citing Wikipedia is a big no-no with very few exceptions, and those mostly related to information about Wikipedia itself.

Aruna, you'd do better to pick a style guide, either APA or MLA, (APA is mostly used by journalists, and sociologists, etc. and MLA is used by humanists) and follow that style guide.

You can find a lot of reduced versions of either on the Web; look for .edu sites.

That way you'll have standardized on a format, and if you publisher/editor wants changes, they will be easier to make.

aruna · May 31, 2011

Thanks so much! I hate technical stuff like this!

chasbaz · May 31, 2011

I would just put: in the preface of his book john Doe relates how he was born in Liverpool etc. Shows you have consulted a source!

Jamesaritchie · May 31, 2011

Generic information written in a generic fashion cannot be considered plagiarism, no matter what or where or how you copy.

"The Dow fell two hundred points today" is one such example. You will not find five hundred reporters trying to word this five hundred ways. It's a simple statement of fact, and cannot be copyright protected, any more that "Good morning" can be.

"XXX was born in Liverpool and studied at Oxford" is a similar phrase. This is a simple, generic statement of fact, and I guarantee fifty-eleven thousand people have used it at one time or another.

You can drive yourself insane trying to reword simple factual information, or listing sources, when neither is necessary or expected.

aruna · May 31, 2011

Jamesaritchie said:
You can drive yourself insane trying to reword simple factual information, or listing sources, when neither is necessary or expected.

You're right, James, and I fear I tend to get a bit anal about it. There's also the stuff that I simply know because, well, I know it, and then feel I have to go chasing after sources and then citing them...

Chasbaz, "preface" was the wrong word; I meant simply the book's author bio, which I assume to be correct. I was wondering how much of this I can use the way it is, and how much I need to paraphrase it, even though it's really just generic information. I will indeed paraphrase it, if only to word it in a rather less text-book fashion. I was just wondering if I have to say I got it from the book's bio; when after all I have three quotes from the book in various places.

Deleted member 42 · May 31, 2011

aruna said:
You're right, James, and I fear I tend to get a bit anal about it. There's also the stuff that I simply know because, well, I know it, and then feel I have to go chasing after sources and then citing them...

Pace Mr. Ritchie, who writes novels, you do need to cite a source.

If you publisher editor decides it's overkill, that's a different matter.

But you're going to have much better chances of publication if you document your research.

aruna said:
I will indeed paraphrase it, if only to word it in a rather less text-book fashion. I was just wondering if I have to say I got it from the book's bio; when after all I have three quotes from the book in various places.

The first citation needs to be footnoted; subsequent citations to the same source can be parenthetical (James 1961, 35).

Your Works Cited will then include full documentation for

James, John L. Three Thousand Useless Facts. University of California Press, Berkeley, CA. 1961.

I'm using MLA because, well, I'm a humanist, and I like MLA.

Take a look a this site.

aruna · Jun 1, 2011

Medi: what about quoting from magazines, websites, internet articles etc?

ETA: OK, I'm readingthe link you posted and it answers the above question.

PinkAmy · Jun 1, 2011

aruna said:
And is it a big no-no to cite Wikipedia?

Definitely a big no-no in academia. I would never cite it, even though I use it for looking up interesting info for pleasure. If I use it for writing, it is to get other sources on the topic.

aruna · Jun 1, 2011

I did use it once, as it had a nice little titbit that fit in nicely with what I had to say. I've since taken it out.

Deleted member 42 · Jun 1, 2011

aruna said:
Medi: what about quoting from magazines, websites, internet articles etc?

ETA: OK, I'm reading the link you posted and it answers the above question.

Just because I like the MLA, doesn't mean you have to; see if APA might make more sense for you and the kind of book you're writing.

And of course, in the end, your publisher and editor will have the final say--and they may even decide you don't need all your citations, but it will be easier if you do have them, just in case.

There are by the way some free tools online for generating the entry in Works Cited or the citation part of a footnote/end note.

veinglory · Jun 1, 2011

Encyclopedia in general are a third grade source, as are most magazines. It pays to work out where they got their facts from and cite that. Lacking the time and resources to do that you need to check enough other tertiary sources to ensure it is widely considered true not just one guy making it up. I have found amazingly incorrect information in magazines.

Deleted member 42 · Jun 1, 2011

Also, be aware that if source A asserts that Source B says GJGJKDK, and you want to cite Source B saying GJGJKDK, you really need to check Source B for yourself, if at all possible.

I'd guess that about half the time when I checked Source B, it didn't say what Source A said it did.

aruna · Jun 1, 2011

Medievalist said:
Just because I like the MLA, doesn't mean you have to; see if APA might make more sense for you and the kind of book you're writing.

.

I like it! It's actually the system I used an eon ago for my dissertation when I was studying in germany, but I didn't know what it was called in English. I haven't done this kind of stuff for so long, though, it makes my brain creak to even think of it! But I've been looking at the books I want to quote, and they all seem to use MLA as well.

Luckily, the book doesn't involve too much quoting and citing; only in the last third, really.

aruna · Aug 3, 2011

OK, I've finished the ms and am now doing the dreaded citations.
A question: I am using a quote at the beginning of each chapter, summing up the general subject of the chapter. I have noticed that other writers who do this do not use endnotes; they just quote writer and book in brackets after the quote.
Is this correct?
Also, what about a famous book that has no known author, but several versions by various translators? How is this cited? As an example: the Bhagavad Gita.

PinkAmy · Aug 3, 2011

Can you do what you've done in your signature?
AMAZING QUOTE ~ ancient Chinese lore, author unknown or
AMAZING QUOTE ~ancient Chinese lore, translated by Joe Blow

I use quotes at the beginning of each section and don't use endnotes. My quotes are no more than a sentence.

AMAZING QUOTE ~ Lynn Redgrave

My book is a memoir, yours is more pure non-fiction, but I think for the type of quote, philosophy rather than fact, you're on firm ground for using this method.

When is paraphrasing plagiarism?

aruna

On a wing and a prayer

veinglory

volitare nequeo

PinkAmy

New kid, be gentle!

Deleted member 42

veinglory

volitare nequeo

Deleted member 42

aruna

On a wing and a prayer

Deleted member 42

aruna

On a wing and a prayer

chasbaz

Jamesaritchie

aruna

On a wing and a prayer

Deleted member 42

aruna

On a wing and a prayer

PinkAmy

New kid, be gentle!

aruna

On a wing and a prayer

Deleted member 42

veinglory

volitare nequeo

Deleted member 42

aruna

On a wing and a prayer

aruna

On a wing and a prayer

PinkAmy

New kid, be gentle!