What I'm Learning as I self-publish Loving Emily

[annetpfeffer]

Still working on The Wedding Cake Girl while Loving Emily sits neglected, back to selling about one book a day. The marketing shark is gasping for breath. However, one good thing has happened. I got a 5 star review from indiereader.com.

This website is one you can approach with review requests and also runs the annual Indie Reader Discovery Awards. I recently posted the deadine, which has passed, for this year's contest.

If you enter the Discovery Awards contest, as I've done, they guarantee you a review on their website, although the two things are kept separate. Different people judge the contest, and your review isn't published until after your book has been judged.

They also publish all Kirkus Indie Reviews, the ones you pay to have done. So that's one place you can go to read some of those reviews and see what you think of them.

Since indiereader.com gives authors explicit written authorization to reproduce their reviews in full, I'm doing so below. Just because I can!

Added in 3/21 at request of Old Hack-- the link to the full review: http://indiereader.com/2012/03/loving-emily/


Verdict: Loving Emily is an impressive first novel and a poignant read with situations and characters that teenagers will find familiar and recognizable.



<snipped by admin>

Loving Emily takes a look at the glamorous and not so glamorous aspects of growing up wealthy, the issues of peer pressure, drugs, teen sex and the power of functional families and friendships. Though some might not agree with her somewhat casual treatment of teen sex or drugs, others might argue that it is part of today’s teen world and lends to Pfeffer’s crisp, fresh and pragmatic writing. She effortlessly captures the mannerisms and mindset of teenagers, the awkwardness, the machismo, the teenage lust and flirtation, and the whole roller coaster of real emotions often associated with a teenager’s world.

Loving Emily is an impressive first novel and a poignant read with situations and characters that teenagers will find familiar and recognizable.

Reviewed by Maya Fleischmann for IndieReader.com 2011

[merrihiatt]

Great review! Congratulations, Anne!

[Old Hack]

Anne, that's a good positive review. But you should link to it if you're going to quote it. It's both legal and polite, because linking back is part of citing your sources properly, and doing so increases traffic and google-indexing for the site concerned; and I bet that Indiereader earns affiliate fees from bookso purchased from its site: it's only fair that they should benefit from any sales which result from their review.

There's also the point that if you don't link back to the review, people aren't going to go there, read it, and with any luck comment on the review and share their own opinions about your book. You're missing a marketing opportunity here!

Originally Posted by annetpfeffer

Since indiereader.com gives authors explicit written authorization to reproduce their reviews in full, I'm doing so below. Just because I can!

I've had a look at the indiereader site and can't find anything, anywhere, which states that this is so. Can you also provide a link to this, please?

[annetpfeffer]

Originally Posted by Old Hack

Anne, that's a good positive review. But you should link to it if you're going to quote it. It's both legal and polite, because linking back is part of citing your sources properly, and doing so increases traffic and google-indexing for the site concerned; and I bet that Indiereader earns affiliate fees from bookso purchased from its site: it's only fair that they should benefit from any sales which result from their review.

There's also the point that if you don't link back to the review, people aren't going to go there, read it, and with any luck comment on the review and share their own opinions about your book. You're missing a marketing opportunity here!



I've had a look at the indiereader site and can't find anything, anywhere, which states that this is so. Can you also provide a link to this, please?

Hi Jane,
Thank you for the point about linking. First, here is the link to the full review, and I will add it in above.

http://indiereader.com/2012/03/loving-emily/

I don't have a link for the permission I received, but rather email correspondence from Amy Edelman, who founded indiereader.com and writes on indie publishing for the Huffington Post.

I hope this suffices. Thank you.

[Old Hack]

Anne, that's fine--but please edit out all those email headers ASAP. You're going to give Indiereader and yourself a lot of spam otherwise.

ETA: Anne, you've gone offline again so I've deleted the email exchange for you. We don't all need to see it, and thanks for posting it.

[annetpfeffer]

Originally Posted by Old Hack

Anne, that's fine--but please edit out all those email headers ASAP. You're going to give Indiereader and yourself a lot of spam otherwise.

ETA: Anne, you've gone offline again so I've deleted the email exchange for you. We don't all need to see it, and thanks for posting it.

As usual, thanks, Jane!

[MacAllister]

Originally Posted by annetpfeffer

Hi Jane,
Thank you for the point about linking. First, here is the link to the full review, and I will add it in above.

http://indiereader.com/2012/03/loving-emily/

I don't have a link for the permission I received, but rather email correspondence from Amy Edelman, who founded indiereader.com and writes on indie publishing for the Huffington Post.

I hope this suffices. Thank you.

No - it absolutely does NOT suffice, because I have no such permission, I've SEEN no such permission, and I'm responsible for this site.

Old Hack is being very gentle and very generous about this, Anne -- but I'm afraid I'm going to step in here, since she and I haven't had a chance to discuss this instance.

Post the review on your own website, or put it in your own newsletter -- terrific, and go for it. But don't post copyrighted materials in their entirety here on the boards.

I asked you nicely once before, now I'm flat out telling you:

Do NOT quote copyrighted materials in their entirety on this board.
Ever.
Don't do it.
Just do NOT do it.

You can link, and quote a few lines. That's it.

Do NOT do this again.

[annetpfeffer]

Originally Posted by MacAllister

No - it absolutely does NOT suffice, because I have no such permission, I've SEEN no such permission, and I'm responsible for this site.

Old Hack is being very gentle and very generous about this, Anne -- but I'm afraid I'm going to step in here, since she and I haven't had a chance to discuss this instance.

Post the review on your own website, or put it in your own newsletter -- terrific, and go for it. But don't post copyrighted materials in their entirety here on the boards.

I asked you nicely once before, now I'm flat out telling you:

Do NOT quote copyrighted materials in their entirety on this board.
Ever.
Don't do it.
Just do NOT do it.

You can link, and quote a few lines. That's it.

Do NOT do this again.

I'm really sorry. I thought the point was, you could do it with proper permission. I'll contact you privately to discuss further.

[MacAllister]

Jane was, I'm certain, trying to err on the side of generosity until she had a chance to check with me about this -- and I completely understand why she left the review in place, provisionally. I appreciate her caution and caring, and I hate it when I find myself in a position where I have to go the other direction from any of the mods.

But I have to take a hard line on this issue. I need to do so, publicly, so that when it comes up again somewhere else with someone else, there's a place for us to point where it's already been clearly hashed out.

There's absolutely no need to discuss this further privately, Anne.

The point is, don't post copyrighted materials in their entirety, here. Ever.

There's nothing beyond that to discuss.

[annetpfeffer]

Originally Posted by MacAllister

Jane was, I'm certain, trying to err on the side of generosity until she had a chance to check with me about this -- and I completely understand why she left the review in place, provisionally. I appreciate her caution and caring, and I hate it when I find myself in a position where I have to go the other direction from any of the mods.

But I have to take a hard line on this issue. I need to do so, publicly, so that when it comes up again somewhere else with someone else, there's a place for us to point where it's already been clearly hashed out.

There's absolutely no need to discuss this further privately, Anne.

The point is, don't post copyrighted materials in their entirety, here. Ever.

There's nothing beyond that to discuss.

I already sent you a private message just sending you the email permission I received. I won't post again in this way, but I'm genuinely confused. Isn't this a matter of getting the proper permission? Or am I wrong on that?

[AW Admin]

Originally Posted by annetpfeffer

I already sent you a private message just sending you the email permission I received. I won't post again in this way, but I'm genuinely confused. Isn't this a matter of getting the proper permission? Or am I wrong on that?

You are profoundly wrong. First, when the owner of the server, MacAllister, or a mod, or the Admin, tells you not to do something, it's not up for debate. At all.

Secondly, in terms of copyright law, you are also profoundly wrong.

Thirdly, this isn't up for discussion or debate. MacAllister was pretty clear:

Originally Posted by MacAllister

There's absolutely no need to discuss this further privately, Anne.

The point is, don't post copyrighted materials in their entirety, here. Ever.

There's nothing beyond that to discuss.

[annetpfeffer]

Originally Posted by AW Admin

You are profoundly wrong. First, when the owner of the server, MacAllister, or a mod, or the Admin, tells you not to do something, it's not up for debate. At all.

Secondly, in terms of copyright law, you are also profoundly wrong.

Thirdly, this isn't up for discussion or debate. MacAllister was pretty clear:

I'm sorry -- I won't do it again. I didn't mean to deliberately defy MacAllister or cause a problem. And I wasn't challenging her with my question -- I was trying to understand why it wasn't okay to post the review when you have permission. But I guess the answer to that is complicated.

Again, I apologize.

[JCGAuthor]

Hey Anne,

I read through a lot of this thread, and I just wanted to commend you on staying humble as you navigate through this whole process. In my experience, that leads to learning.

I'm on the "learning" phase of self-publishing at this point, and I find spending a large chunk of my time listening is definitely the best thing I can do.

Good luck with your books.

Also -- thanks to you other folks for the advice in this thread.

[annetpfeffer]

Originally Posted by JCGAuthor

Hey Anne,

I read through a lot of this thread, and I just wanted to commend you on staying humble as you navigate through this whole process. In my experience, that leads to learning.

I'm on the "learning" phase of self-publishing at this point, and I find spending a large chunk of my time listening is definitely the best thing I can do.

Good luck with your books.


Also -- thanks to you other folks for the advice in this thread.

Thanks for tuning in, JCG. Ha ha, yes, I'm definitely staying humble! I find it quite easy to do!

Listening's an excellent strategy, as you suggest, although it only works if other people are out there starting conversations. I began this thread six months ago thinking newbie self-publishers could meet here and exchange information. I've continued it only because readers tell me it's useful. If it is, I'm glad.

Cheers, and good luck with your own writing!

[GodOfABF]

Originally Posted by MacAllister

Jane was, I'm certain, trying to err on the side of generosity until she had a chance to check with me about this -- and I completely understand why she left the review in place, provisionally. I appreciate her caution and caring, and I hate it when I find myself in a position where I have to go the other direction from any of the mods.

But I have to take a hard line on this issue. I need to do so, publicly, so that when it comes up again somewhere else with someone else, there's a place for us to point where it's already been clearly hashed out.

There's absolutely no need to discuss this further privately, Anne.

The point is, don't post copyrighted materials in their entirety, here. Ever.

There's nothing beyond that to discuss.

I'm confused about something here -- is the issue that Anne quoted the entire review of her book? And that (presumably), the review itself was "copyrighted", therefore it was somehow verboten to reproduce the entire review, within these forums?

While as an author I understand the general principle involved, to a casual observer it seems a little like "using a howitzer to kill a mosquito". I guess for me, the thing that seems problematic is, if, for example, somebody writes a one paragraph review of my book(s) on Amazon, is it then prohibited for me to reproduce that paragraph here?

Seems a bit excessive, but I may have misunderstood the rules... if so please enlighten me...

Regards

[Old Hack]

Anne was reminded up-thread that people are expected to follow the principles of fair use when quoting any copyright material, anywhere--whether writing in print or online. She didn't follow those principles, so Mac and I edited her comments for her.

This requirement isn't exclusive to AW: it's a basic principle that all writers should understand. I suggest you look it up.

And in future, if you have a question about anything the mods have done, please ask it via PM. This thread isn't the place for us to have this discussion.

[Kriven]

Why is it excessive? The administrative team is legally liable for any content on their site, including copyrighted content pasted by their members. I think it's totally understandable to want to protect yourself from potential lawsuit.

Not to mention respecting the authors of the reviews.

edit: ninjaed by old hack

[annetpfeffer]

Hi all,

Checking in from Hood River, OR, where I've just completed my fabulous writer's workshop. There were a lot of people there, and I got a ton of ideas and suggestions for The Wedding Cake Girl.

The surprise of the week was that an agent now wants to see the full manuscript, something I wasn't looking for or expecting. I still have revisions to do, but after that I guess I'll submit it and see what happens. When this happened with Loving Emily, it was just a delay on the road to self-publishing -- we'll see.

My blog tour for Loving Emily starts tomorrow. I'll post some links as we go along.

[BAY]

Good luck with the agent on reading your manuscript. I've enjoyed reading your thread. A bit of a roller coaster ride.

[merrihiatt]

Exciting news, Anne. Good luck and enjoy the blog tour!

[annetpfeffer]

BAY and Merri:
Thanks so much for the good wishes. I've got to rewrite before I submit, so it's definitely back to the writer's cave for me!

[MacAllister]

Originally Posted by GodOfABF

I'm confused about something here -- is the issue that Anne quoted the entire review of her book? And that (presumably), the review itself was "copyrighted", therefore it was somehow verboten to reproduce the entire review, within these forums?

While as an author I understand the general principle involved, to a casual observer it seems a little like "using a howitzer to kill a mosquito". I guess for me, the thing that seems problematic is, if, for example, somebody writes a one paragraph review of my book(s) on Amazon, is it then prohibited for me to reproduce that paragraph here?

Seems a bit excessive, but I may have misunderstood the rules... if so please enlighten me...

Regards

For the love of little green Martians, do I need to use smaller words? What part of this is confusing or unclear?

No, you may not reproduce the entire review here. Not even if it's short. Not even if someone else told you that you could.

As for that being a "howitzer" I'll merely point out that this is a privately owned site, and it's not up for a vote. Nor is the policy open for debate.

If you think it's excessive, you're entirely welcome to open your own forums and let everyone quote copyrighted material in its entirety to your heart's content.

[annetpfeffer]

A friend has asked me if I want to contribute to a new small blog co-authored by some YA indie authors, and I said "yes." I'd like to write some book reviews and blog about subjects that are off-topic for this thread. So I expect I'll primarily be posting over there from now on, although I'll keep visiting AW as a guest.

The link to the new site is http://www.yaindie.com/ , in case you want to visit, but I know you can get all the information you would ever want about writing from AW. Good luck to everyone with your projects. Thanks for reading, and thanks to AW for hosting this thread!