Is this true about third person...

...Yes, publishing takes a while. I haven't heard of a process taking more than one or two years. I don't know about 'no 1st person' but I am pretty sure 1st person is still fairly popular, if Twilight is about to tell me anything about it.

Ya gotta watch out for them thrids narrating a story. They lie, prevaricate, are entirely untrustworthy, them thrids.

caw

I don't know what genre you're writing in but I read a lot of YA and almost all of it lately seems to be first person/present tense or first person/past tense. Either way, first person is definetly not out of style. I'm not sure about other genres but I'm guessing its fairly the same. I wouldn't worry about what this person said, its really only their opinion after all. Where's the proof that any of it is true?

Choosing which person (first or third) to use isn't a matter of following trends. It's a matter of determining which is most effective for the story you're telling.

Besides, as far as I know, there is no trend on person. Publishers want stories written in the most effective way.

As you your last question, two to three years is the typical amount of time between a publisher offering to buy rights to a book and that book being released. Can be faster or slower, but two to three years is usual.

How long it takes from 'now' to getting an offer is highly variable.

Only second person is out of style. And I don't think it was ever in style to begin with. Almost everyone hates it, and they probably will forever more.

But first person is totally cool. Yeah. Love the sound of the word "I."

Your client is both right and wrong.

To say it's out of style for publishers is innaccurate. They'll publish a great story regardless of POV and I've seen nothing that would indicate any recent sea-change in this regard. (I'd ask how your client knows this?)

However, it is truish that first person, present tense is a pretty unusual choice and it does have the potential to turn some readers off, particularly at novel length so you better have a darn good defense about why this choice is so critically important to this book to justify that.

Present tense in general is the kicker. First person alone is quite common, but almost universally past tense. (The last three novels I read are coincidentally first/past and last I checked Nelson Demille, Michael Connelly and Joe Lansdale haven't gone out of style yet... )

Third person limited is of course the most common.

Then you get the smattering of more omnicient stuff.

But present tends to fairly rare overall, and exceptionally rare with anything other than third person limited.

Off the top of my head, I can't recall ever reading a first person present novel...?
Yeah. It's odd. Just that sentence sort of shakes my reader brain out of its comfort zone.

But not a deal-breaker on its own by any means.

daydreameriam1 said:

Ok. Today was one of those days where I had a client who thought they knew more about evvverything, including myself. She was trying to tell me that first person/present tense is out of 'style'. If that is how I should put it. She said that most publishers want third person books these days and have for the last five years. First person is out. My book is first person/ present tense. I am considering it third but for the most part it is not a third person book. Just doesnt sound right for the kind of book I am writing. So is she crazy or what?? I want to think so. Oh annnnnnnnnnnd she said that it will take three years before a book would get published it it went that far. ????

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Ignore her and write your story the way it's meant to be written.

There are tons of first-person present-tense novels. If you hop over into the Young Adult forum they'll give you a list a mile long. I think it might be a tad more unusual in adult novels.

Alyson Noel wrote her Immortal series in first/present. I've got a few others in my bookshelf like them as well, but it is definetly not as common and a LOT harder to pull off successfully than past tense. I do think really, first/present is *basically* kind of limited to YA and similar novels these days... though I may be wrong

Whenever I open a chicklit book (just to get an idea of what women are thinking about. Turns out to be shoes, mostly) at work, it's more often than not written in first person.

It depends on the genre and the story.

daydreameriam1 said:

Ok. Today was one of those days where I had a client who thought they knew more about evvverything, including myself. She was trying to tell me that first person/present tense is out of 'style'. If that is how I should put it. She said that most publishers want third person books these days and have for the last five years. First person is out. My book is first person/ present tense. I am considering it third but for the most part it is not a third person book. Just doesnt sound right for the kind of book I am writing. So is she crazy or what?? I want to think so. Oh annnnnnnnnnnd she said that it will take three years before a book would get published it it went that far. ????

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So she's polled every publisher and read every book published over the last five years. Amazing person she is.

But being your client, I can understand how you need to just politely say, "Really. I didn't know that."

I suggest you agree with everything she says, tell her how brilliant she is, compliment her on her fashion sense and perfume, then raise your fees by at least 10%

A few agents I've researched have stated they accept no 1st person. Of course, I can't remember who off-hand. I think if a book is well-written that is more important.

daydreameriam1 said:

She was trying to tell me that first person/present tense is out of 'style'. If that is how I should put it. She said that most publishers want third person books these days and have for the last five years. First person is out. My book is first person/ present tense. I am considering it

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Mine sold in July, 1st PP, and I can think of a couple others I know have sold in the last year or so that are the same. Tell your client to (politely) stuff it. Almost all of the "major" books that have come out recently for YA are 1PP, not 3rd. (The Wings series is in 3rd, as is the Heist Society, so there are some which are in 3rd, but most YA seems to be in 1st. The Wake series was 3rd present and YOU was 2nd, so there's really no absolutes.)

J. Tanner said:

However, it is truish that first person, present tense is a pretty unusual choice and it does have the potential to turn some readers off, particularly at novel length so you better have a darn good defense about why this choice is so critically important to this book to justify that.

****

Off the top of my head, I can't recall ever reading a first person present novel...?

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It's not unusual at all in YA, and even the best seller list is full of 1PP books for the adult market.

The Poisonwood Bible, Fight Club, The House of Sand and Fog, The Time Traveler's Wife, Lottery, Never Let Me Go, Water for Elephants, etc, etc, etc.

It's everywhere, really.

Oh, and 18 mo - 2 years isn't unusual for publishing. 3's a bit extreme.

It is true that abut ninety percent of published novels are third person, past tense. This has always been the case. This doesn't mean first person is out of style. It isn't.

I have read that first person, present tense is starting to annoy agents and editors, and I know it annoys many readers. I simply won't read a novel length first person, present tense work, but that's me.

It's also true that it's easier to sell a first person novel in some genres than in others, but if you read a LOT of novels in the genre of your own novel, you'll quickly see what is and isn't wanted.

I was taught at school that 'first person' was lazy writing and you should avoid it because it looks like you aren't trying. I have been told that such and such a tense is in/out of fashion or publishers 'don't want to see that sort of thing' many many times. I've been told that vampires are 'in', that publishers 'only want to read books about boy wizards now' and all sorts of other things... trouble is, many of these 'trends' are bullshit generalisations based maybe on something someone read in a magazine or inferred from the current stock of books in bookshops or what they were taught in a writer's course rather than actually being involved in the publishing industry and maybe, therefore, having a chance to have some actual info. And even the ones that are accurate aren't really worth listening too because, by the time you get your novel out to publishers (written following the advice du jour), the whole scene is likely to have changed now because the market is glutted with vampire boy wizards and everyone and their dog is writing love stories from the condom's point of view...

So, as stated above, follow your heart and not the rumours. If a particular PoV and tense fits the story then use it because, if you write it in the wrong PoV/tense or a PoV/tense you are not comfortable with it will show in the writing and knacker your chances anyway.

As for second person... I know of at least one novel that is out there, published by a large publishing house, which uses second person. It's wierd to read and I can't see it being used for many novels but for this particular one it works. The novel is Halting State by Charles Stross and it works because it is a novel about online roleplaying and the second person style is the same used by GMs when describing scenes in a roleplaying game i.e. 'You are standing in a corridor, there are doors to your left and right...'

In Tryptych I am using first person present tense for sections which are supposed to be recordings of characters' experiences taken by a piece of technology bonded to them (sort of like a personal black box recorder). Its a stylistic choice I made because it suited the situation better than any other style. The rest of the text is in third person past tense. Many of the critters who have looked at it have complained about the tense/PoV change even though I have seen changes in tense and PoV in published works for similar stylistic reasons. I do wonder when reading comments to this effect whether it is a case of them following the status quo because they heard that publishers 'don't like that sort of thing' or if there is a genuine need to change it. So far, I am sticking to my guns, mainly because the bits I have written in these sections are among the best I have ever written to date

daydreameriam1 said:

I am almost done with it. I have worked on the first nine chapters since. For the most part it is adult or older YA (if there is such a thing) just because of a few love scene, but they are not 'graphic'.

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If you think a few "love scenes" kicks a book out of YA, then you don't know enough about the genre to write in it effectively.

Terie said:

Choosing which person (first or third) to use isn't a matter of following trends. It's a matter of determining which is most effective for the story you're telling.

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I agree with this. My major rule in deciding how to tell a story is to ask myself if I want to tell the story freely, or do I want to experience the story as a particular character.

Change Your POV

Having little background in the whole technical side of writing, I personally wouldn't have a clue how to tell the difference between one tense and the next. I just write however it feels the story will work best. As should everyone.

A.r.p. said:

Only second person is out of style. And I don't think it was ever in style to begin with. Almost everyone hates it, and they probably will forever more.

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Not true. It can be done well, e.g., Charles Stross in his new book Rule 34 and the prior book in the same series, Halting State. I found the second person quite invisible there. He pointed out that you can do things in second person that you can't really quite do the same in first or third.

Write with whatever PoV you find is strongest for that work.

Intro two paragraphs to Rule 34, which I found first:

It's a slow Tuesday afternoon, and you're coming to the end of your shift on the West End control desk when Sergeant McDougall IMs you: INSPECTOR WANTED ON FATACC SCENE.

"Jesus Fucking Christ," you subvocalize, careful not to let it out aloud--the transcription software responds erratically to scatology, never mind eschatology--and wave two fingers at Mac's icon. You can't think of a reasonable excuse to dump it on D. I. Chu's shoulders when he comes on shift, so that's you on the spot: you with your shift-end paper-work looming, an evening's appointment with the hair salon, and your dodgy gastric reflux.

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And the first three paragraphs of chapter 2, which is a different POV:

In the end, it all boils down to this: You'd do anything for your kids. Anything. So: does this make you a bad da?

That's what Mr. Webber just pointed out to you -- rubbed your nose in, more like -- leaning forward in his squeaky office chair and wagging the crooked index finger of righteousness.

"I say this more in sorrow than in anger, Anwar"´-- that's how he eases himself into one of the little sermons he seems to get his jollies from. You're the odd one out in his regular client case-load, coming from what they laughably mistake for a stable family background: You're not exactly Normal for Neds. So he harbours high hopes of adding you to the twelve-month did-not-reoffend column on his departmental report, and consequently preaches at you during these regular scheduled self-criticism sessions. As if you didn't get enough of that shite from Aunt Sameena already: You've already got it off by heart. So you nod apologetically, duck your head, and remember to make eye contact just like the NLP book says, exuding apologetic contrition and remorse until your probation officer drowns in it.

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It works, and obviously someone bought it (myself included, I suppose), so it's far from dead yet.

Personally I don't like present tense, and yet I've been experimenting with 1st person present for one small section of a project, in a PoV I was having trouble getting into. Anyway, good luck with yours!

As for the "three years" comment, I can see it easily taking three years from initial querying to publication, because every stage of the process is painfully slow. You have to find an agent, then the agent has to find a publisher, then the publisher has to fit you into their production schedule which is already full of existing clients. Sometimes it does go faster, of course - my book will be out 18 months after I sent my first query, which is pretty fast!

For first person, I have come to prefer present tense, and I think it's because of someone's prejudice they told me about: first person can feel like somoene's telling you a story that already happened.

There's also another time layer if you use present tense.

Michael Connelly, Lee Child, and many other suspense/thriller/detective writers love 1st person! Can't see how it's out of style, unless it's for a particular genre. 1st person is hard, but when it works, it's beautiful.

Do what works for you.