I don't mean when the story should end, what that very last line should be - but how do you know that it is ready (for submission or any other end goal)?
How do you know when a novel is done?
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It is tempting to keep revising. I stop when my critique group is telling me to change to stuff that had been there before or was tried and failed before. I stop when I try something with the story and it doesn't work. That's when I know I've gone far enough.
Keep in mind that the editor will ask for changes too. It's never done, just out. At some point, you need to focus on the next one.
Keep in mind that the editor will ask for changes too. It's never done, just out. At some point, you need to focus on the next one.
It depends on whether you prefer your novels rare (internal temperature of 140 degrees F), medium (160 F), or well-done (180 F).
I like well-done myself.
I like well-done myself.
In some ways, you don't know until you start submitting and see the result. But I've learned to pay attention to two things. First, I've learned to pay attention to my instincts. If I'm doubtful about some scene or even a sentence, it probably needs strengthening. Second, I've learned to pay attention to my subconscious. If it's still spitting out ideas when I first wake up or while I'm in the shower, I'm not done yet.
Like most things, this probably varies from person to person.
Like most things, this probably varies from person to person.
LOL WAT???
I don't even think my reports for college are finished.
You can always do more, edit more, write more, write more and MORE MORE MORE
I think about when I'm tired of them. About 30K-50K for me, then I dump them and start on a new one.
I don't even think my reports for college are finished.
You can always do more, edit more, write more, write more and MORE MORE MORE
I think about when I'm tired of them. About 30K-50K for me, then I dump them and start on a new one.
when you've edited to the point where instead of meaningful changes, you are second-guessing and rearranging deck chairs.
when you can't stand it anymore
when your beta/wife/cat tells you it is done
any of the above are valid options, usually for me it is a combination of the first 2.
of course you can. but eventually you need to get a feel for when you are no longer changing things for the better, and either making lateral moves or beginning to seriously damage your own work.
At some point you hit the "shit or commit" stage, and you can either keep making those lateral moves, or start subbing and working something new.
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I doubt a novel is ever really "done". There does come a point where you'll happily put your name on it as is, and that's probably the point where it's "done".
Of course, that largely depends on one's own experience writing. I've sent stuff out that (at the time) I thought was polished as much as it could be. Heh. The more you grow as a writer, the more you can look back and see how unpolished some of your early stuff really was. At that point, your "done" measurement moves from that 140 degree mark toward the 160 degree mark Phaeal mentioned.
Of course, that largely depends on one's own experience writing. I've sent stuff out that (at the time) I thought was polished as much as it could be. Heh. The more you grow as a writer, the more you can look back and see how unpolished some of your early stuff really was. At that point, your "done" measurement moves from that 140 degree mark toward the 160 degree mark Phaeal mentioned.
I'm an adder, not a cutter, so it's tricky for me. How much would be boring, then again is my story lacking depth, am I not making certain things, certain characters clear enough? That's why I'm planning to find beta readers before I consider the draft done, because otherwise I'll just keep adding and adding and it won't ever stop.
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Whew. Because I thought your cat told you to eat your children. I wouldn't trust a cat who tells me to eat children without including some recipe.
To the OP: every thing quick said, sans the cat thing. Cats can't be trusted.
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I think that when it's right you'll know. When I get the feeling that I've done all I'll be able to do, I close up shop and move on.
Stick a fork in it. If it's still bloody keep cooking.
I don't think it's ever truly ready. But at some point once you've spit shined its face you've got to push it out of the door. If it grows up to be a very successful novel, then later you'll be able to indulge your "I wish I'd done this" instincts (see George Lucas syndrome).
I don't think it's ever truly ready. But at some point once you've spit shined its face you've got to push it out of the door. If it grows up to be a very successful novel, then later you'll be able to indulge your "I wish I'd done this" instincts (see George Lucas syndrome).
When your eyes are burning, because you've made countless revisions and or corrections. My problem is I'm a perfectionist, so I always have the potential to work on something indefinitely without feeling it's "perfect" or "done." After a while, I just have to let it go, because I'll end up making myself nuts if I don't.
Paul
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Paul
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You know that old saying about stories--how they're never finished, just abandoned? Yeah. That.
If you are to the point where you take out a comma (verb, noun, etc) one day just to put it back the next you're procrastinating. That's as finished as you can get it on your own (and I think even then you've held onto it too long).
No one can read it if you never give them the opportunity.
If you are to the point where you take out a comma (verb, noun, etc) one day just to put it back the next you're procrastinating. That's as finished as you can get it on your own (and I think even then you've held onto it too long).
No one can read it if you never give them the opportunity.
It's never ready in my opinion. There's always something else, even after it's published I've heard from professional published authors.
In my opinion, when I can get through it after three months and catch only three five things that I think are messed up but can really stay as is, it's ready. Like MJNL said, after that, it's procrastinating.
In my opinion, when I can get through it after three months and catch only three five things that I think are messed up but can really stay as is, it's ready. Like MJNL said, after that, it's procrastinating.
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I usually find I have the opposite problem, I edit it a couple of times, on one edit I may change the beginning (although on my current one, I don't think I could better this beginning), then I stare hopelessly at it, trying to find something else that would improve it, only to not be able to see anything....
If I'm lucky I can send it through some sort of critiquing - and that's when others can find masses wrong with it, I then follow all that advice, then run through it again, to make sure it's tidy, then I send it out and then nothing happens.
That was book 1.
I'm hoping I've learnt enough so that book 2 is a little better this time...
But I always miss things that others find so easy to see... yet I can see problems with other people's work when I'm critiquing - why can't I do that with my own work?
It's so frustrating!
If I'm lucky I can send it through some sort of critiquing - and that's when others can find masses wrong with it, I then follow all that advice, then run through it again, to make sure it's tidy, then I send it out and then nothing happens.
That was book 1.
I'm hoping I've learnt enough so that book 2 is a little better this time...
But I always miss things that others find so easy to see... yet I can see problems with other people's work when I'm critiquing - why can't I do that with my own work?
It's so frustrating!
When you can not stand to open the thing one more time for fear of smashing your keyboard, it's done.
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I think you need to aim for perfection but accept that you will never achieve it and therefore that you actually need to send it out. If this is your first novel (or even your sixth but will be your first published one) I think it's very important to try to get honest, knowledgeable critical feedback first, and to put into place as many of the suggestions as you agree with; and it's important, too, to take time away from your "finished" novel before sending it out. Other than that, once you don't know what else to do to improve it, it's done!
Good luck!
Good luck!
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