Things Straight People Do That Bug LGBT People

[absitinvidia]

Originally Posted by firedrake

And - from Absinitvidia:

Within the writing community, the thing that never fails to piss me off is the straight writers of GLBT erotica who bitch and moan about having to hide their "writer identities" from their families, coworkers, etc.--and do so to their colleagues who identify as GLBT, with no sense of irony whatsoever.


I don't get it. I've never hid what I write. There's no sense. It wouldn't take a rocket scientist to link my pen name to my real name. If people have a problem with what I write they'll leave me alone and they won't read my stuff. They're not people I'd want in my life anyway.

Most writers seem to feel this way. But I'm on a couple of mailing lists where some people are obsessed with keeping their m/m writing hidden, from their parents, in-laws, church group, what have you, and they think that makes them just like gay people because they know what it's like to have to keep some aspect of themselves hidden. And they don't get that being able to live their everyday lives just as they always have means they don't know what it's like to be a gay person, not at all.

[Medievalist]

Originally Posted by absitinvidia

And they don't get that being able to live their everyday lives just as they always have means they don't know what it's like to be a gay person, not at all.

In other words, they still have straight privileges.

Whereas I've recently had a conversation with a close relative who has asked me not to dress "lesbian," and has suggested I tell employers my partner is "my roommate."

[absitinvidia]

Originally Posted by Medievalist

Whereas I've recently had a conversation with a close relative who has asked me not to dress "lesbian," and has suggested I tell employers my partner is "my roommate."

I've had that conversation too. Also, been told any number of times I can't possibly be lesbian because my nails aren't super-super short.

[The Kidd]

Whereas I've recently had a conversation with a close relative who has asked me not to dress "lesbian," and has suggested I tell employers my partner is "my roommate."

How does one dress 'lesbian'? I'm sorry, but I'm absolutely boggled by this statement. And why would employers know about your personal life to the point they would knew ANYONE lived with you?

[DancingMaenid]

Originally Posted by not_HarryS

I dislike when allies are overly "ally." This one is hard to put into words, but there are those who like gay people solely on account of their being gay people, and (straight folks) who are pro-gay to the point of objectifying gay people. I dislike when these very allies think that they know what it's like to be gay because they are social pariahs (or for any other reason, really) and when they use language that implies in some way that they are a part of us. These are also the same people who, indirectly or directly, tell us how we should feel --or what our reactions to things should be-- based on our gayness.

Yeah, I agree. Your last sentence especially resonates with me. I've actually been thinking about that lately.

Occasionally, I'll feel like I'm being judged by someone who's trying to be an ally because my feelings, thoughts, or actions don't fit perfectly with what they see as appropriate. LGBT people aren't "above the law" so to speak, but there are a lot of things that come down to individual experience or the understanding that comes with being part of the group in question.

Originally Posted by crunchyblanket

Oh god yes. And, related to this, support of 'conventionally attractive' lesbian couples but not 'masculine' couples, or less 'conventionally attractive' - i.e 'too old', 'too fat', 'too butch', 'too hairy', etc.

Yep. There's this undercurrent of an idea that women are only good for pleasing men, so lesbians are good if they're good sports about being objectified and if the men doing the objectifying find them attractive. If they aren't attractive to those men, or if they dare object to being treated this way, then they're bad.

I've also heard of women being called lesbians, regardless of their actual orientations, because they reject a man's sexual advances.

Originally Posted by The Kidd

How does one dress 'lesbian'? I'm sorry, but I'm absolutely boggled by this statement. And why would employers know about your personal life to the point they would knew ANYONE lived with you?

Can't speak for Medievalist, but it's not hard for me to see how it could come up. It goes back to how straight people do this stuff all the time, but when queer people do it it stands out. For example, putting your partner's picture on your desk, or putting in a request for vacation time and mentioning to your boss that you and your partner are planning to go on a trip, or bringing your partner to company picnics or holiday parties. Some work environments are more close-knit than others, too. Not to mention, even if you're not out to your employers, you can end up being out(ed) to your coworkers, who may out you to your employers in some way.

[Kitty Pryde]

Originally Posted by absitinvidia

I've had that conversation too. Also, been told any number of times I can't possibly be lesbian because my nails aren't super-super short.

Talk about highly inappropriate topics to bring up!! My word. random: My MIL used to have super long nails, like 2 or 3 inches. When she first moved to her current home, she had the neighbors over, a lesbian couple. One of the ladies said to my MIL, "Whoo, you couldn't be no lesbian with nails like that!" what a great icebreaker, perfect for any social occasion...

[Switch-Phase]

One thing that really pisses me off, is it doesn't matter how much I back my guy friends during break ups, they don't give a shit when I lose a gilrfriend.

They say "Awe buddy, sorry to hear that" but they remain friends with her even though she beat me and was sexually abusive.

The thing that I hate is this: if she was a man, they'd kick his ass. But she was a woman, so suddenly it doesn't count, and my pain is without meaning.

I don't get it.. I don't want them to hate her, but it's like come on.. They weren't ever close to her, and they're blatantly ignoring things they hate about other girls. If one of the guys is treated this way by a girl, they hate her.

Happens to me, nobody cares.

[Anjasa]

I think that ties in to the fact that people still don't believe that women can't be physically or sexually abusive. Unfortunately it leaves a lot of people, men and women, to suffer in silence or be laughed at.

How many times do I have to hear about how you 'can't rape the willing!' or that a woman beating a man is 'cute when she tries to be tough'. Ulg.

[Medievalist]

Originally Posted by The Kidd

How does one dress 'lesbian'? I'm sorry, but I'm absolutely boggled by this statement.

I got nothing; it's about stereotypes though--much like the one where I can't be a lesbian because I have long hair.

I suspect if you ask around, you'll find someone who tells you exactly how "lesbians dress." Not just some, but "lesbians."

It's part of the "you don't look lesbian" trope, the sibling of the "you don't look gay" trope.

Originally Posted by The Kidd

And why would employers know about your personal life to the point they would knew ANYONE lived with you?

In my case, I don't see well and can't drive, so my partner is likely to be involved in picking me up at work, or dropping me off. Moreover, if other people bring their spouses to events I'm damn sure bringing mine as long as she wants to be there. There are at many workplaces things like pictures on one's desk. (There's nothing like being asked to remove your spouse's picture when everyone else has theirs on a desk because you're in a same-sex relationship--and yes, it's perfectly legal in lots and lots of places.)

There is an inadvertent assumption for many heterosexual people that being queer is ultimately always about sex. Not about love, or that same sex couples often have a fairly mundane life as a family or couple. It's all about the sex, to the point that there's that underlying assumption that same-sex is "kinky" or "unusual" or even "lacking" or "not real sex."

That's partly what's behind many statements from people who think of themselves as non-hostile about the "homosexual lifestyle."

For some, because the existence of a same-sex couple is all about sex--and hence thus somehow "kinky" or otherwise not socially acceptable. So it's "not OK" to be out, ever. Family members who ask you not to use "that word" (homosexual or lesbian) about yourself, for instance, even when you have people ask you if you're "seeing anyone."

There's often an assumption that that's all a same-sex couple has as a couple is lots and lots of really great sex without worries about pregnancy. And sometimes, there's a fairly clear undercurrent of resentment, too. That's sometimes part of assertions that same-sex couples want "special privileges" with respect to being allowed to have their relationship federally recognized, with all the rights, privileges and benefits of taxes, social security and pensions that heterosexual couples have.

This odd sexual obsession/misunderstanding is at least part of the questions about "what can two women do," or assertions that "You just haven't been with the right man," or "who abused you," or the implication that you've "settled" for something lesser ("You could get a man if you'd just try!") or "What if you decide you want children/you'll never have children!"

[thethinker42]

The "dressing like a lesbian" thing irks me but good.

When I was in high school, I wore flannel shirts and Doc Martens (shut up, it was the 90s). I hated wearing makeup, never wore skirts unless it was a formal, and was the furthest thing from "girly" ever. I also had quite a few boyfriends. Still, there was always some rumor floating around that I was a lesbian, and even some of my close friends would give me the "uh huh, sure" look if I said I wasn't. Because apparently the definition of "lesbian" involves clothes and makeup, not romantic/sexual/etc relationships. Or something.

Skip ahead 5 years after graduation, and I figure out I am, in fact, bisexual.

Cue a chorus of, "Ah HA! We KNEW IT!"

*headdesk*

[kuwisdelu]

Oh yeah. It was touched on before when bisexuality was brought up, but what really bugs me is the idea that you're either straight or gay, and being straight means you're attracted to opposite-cisgendered individuals and being gay means you're attracted to same-cisgendered individuals.

Maybe when it comes to potential partners, I don't really care what gender someone identifies as or what is currently — or has ever been — between someone's legs?

Or does the fact that my only relationships have been with cisgendered women mean I'm straight? Will I be bisexual if I never end up in a relationship with someone who lies outside the gender binary?

I guess a lot of that goes back to having sex — now — being all that counts.

[BunnyMaz]

Originally Posted by kuwisdelu

Oh yeah. It was touched on before when bisexuality was brought up, but what really bugs me is the idea that you're either straight or gay, and being straight means you're attracted to opposite-cisgendered individuals and being gay means you're attracted to same-cisgendered individuals.

Maybe when it comes to potential partners, I don't really care what gender someone identifies as or what is currently — or has ever been — between someone's legs?

Or does the fact that my only relationships have been with cisgendered women mean I'm straight? Will I be bisexual if I never end up in a relationship with someone who lies outside the gender binary?

I guess a lot of that goes back to having sex — now — being all that counts.

Oooh, yeah. Also a part of why I try to avoid the "bi" label for myself so much. I would be happy to explore a romantic relationship with a person who lies anywhere on the gender spectrum. Since I don't see gender as binary thing, how can I define my sexuality as "bi" anything?

[Kitty Pryde]

I think perhaps "pansexual" is the all-encompassing term you both might be seeking.

[Switch-Phase]

I'm technically biromantic asexual.. I prefer to date girls, find guys easier to hang out with, and I'm not sexually attracted to anyone.

[thethinker42]

Originally Posted by Kitty Pryde

I think perhaps "pansexual" is the all-encompassing term you both might be seeking.

Seconded.

I admittedly use "bisexual" partly out of habit, and partly because "pansexual" opens up a can of "let me educate you" worms. If someone's ignorant enough to make some of these ridiculous assumptions about bisexuality, it's a safe bet I'll be tempted to smack them before the end of a conversation about pansexuality.

Laziness? I suppose you could call it that. Other people's ignorance can be exhausting.

If someone's genuinely open-minded and willing to listen, that's another story.

[kuwisdelu]

Originally Posted by Kitty Pryde

I think perhaps "pansexual" is the all-encompassing term you both might be seeking.

Yes, but,

Originally Posted by thethinker42

and partly because "pansexual" opens up a can of "let me educate you" worms

I don't tend to bring it up, and it rarely comes up seeing as I've been perpetually single for a while now, but when asked, I usually just smile and say "I'm flexible." Bothering to label myself leaves me carrying the luggage.

[thethinker42]

Originally Posted by kuwisdelu

I don't tend to bring it up, and it rarely comes up seeing as I've been perpetually single for a while now, but when asked, I usually just wink and say "I'm flexible."

It doesn't come up often -- I'm married, after all, so I'm straight until proven guilty -- but when it does...yeah. It can get interesting.

[MacAllister]

Heh. Then there's this.

Some things clearly transcend national borders.

[BunnyMaz]

Originally Posted by Kitty Pryde

I think perhaps "pansexual" is the all-encompassing term you both might be seeking.

Hmmm. That could work. Although yeah, it would definitely lead to it's own set of issues. I've already kept well away from "omnisexual" because people I tried the word with immediately leapt to "What, you man you'd literally fuck anything?"

[The Otter]

Don't know if this fits in this thread, because the guilty party wasn't straight. But I remember being really annoyed while hearing someone complain that too many women were identifying as bisexual when they'd never had sex with a girl. She stated that if a woman wanted to identify as bisexual, she should go out and sleep with another girl to "prove it," and that otherwise she should just identify as bicurious.

Because apparently sexuality is all about who you sleep with (again with that assumption), and if you're not straight you need to "prove" it to the world, or else you're straight by default. At least in this woman's strange, warped reality.

[kuwisdelu]

Therefore we can conclude that all gay non-straight virgins are actually straights in denial.

[maxmordon]

Thinking that if you're not out and about 24/7 it means you're in the closet.

I'm not the most open person when it comes to romantic feelings pretty much keeping to myself if I'm attracted or not to a man or a woman and I find it rude and obnoxious people who goes around checking out people they feel attracted and drooling and doing lewd remarks because I feel it disrespect their status as people reducing them to pet show levels and just because of it some folks I know start saying how I'm "repressed" and "in the closet" and whatnot or they say I'm actually straight/gay (depending on the group in question) and pretending to be bisexual just for "insert your BS reason".

I even got a couple of people who thought I was asexual, Sheldon Cooper-style.

It all boils down people thinking its just about the sex, when clearly it's not when that's just a bit of a very complex entity every person is. It doesn't hurt me with my group of straight male friends since they pretty much accept my status as a looney geek but with my more sexually-open friends it hurts me deeply since they act that I need to "open up" and what not. It's essentially the same logic behind "all straight men think of breasts and ass all the time". It's degrading and it just continues hurtful stereotypes.

In the words of David Hyde Pierce, my life is an open book, I just choose which you can read.

[Zelenka]

Don't know if this counts but it's a weird thing I've come across a few times now. I don't actually know what I am, in terms of labels. I'm straight, but I'm not at all a sexual person. Every now and then I'll find someone attractive, and it has so far always been someone male, but it really is a rare occasion. It's just not a part of my life for whatever reason. But the amount of people I try to explain this to, and say I'm not really attracted to anyone, who immediately say 'oh are you lesbian then?' Em, no, because other women count as 'anyone' and I just said I'm not attracted to anyone. I suppose it's kind of along the same lines as people asking if you're lesbian if you don't find a particular man attractive, like it's some sort of fallback or something. Can't get a bloke? Don't worry, you can always try lesbianism! That sort of thing.

But then a lot of the comments I've heard, especially around my old workplace (things like 'all women with short hair are lesbians' and a comment that the trailer a drama about lesbian relationships was terrible because it didn't give a warning that there would be two girls kissing) I think come from this thing nowadays where people feel the right to comment on everyone and everything. Seriously, I have enough bother with my own life without bothering what everyone else around me is doing. But some people just seem to be totally obsessed with other people's lives and feel they have the right to be this way, and to express their opinions, and often to try and 'mould' you back into some sort of 'acceptable' person.

[maxmordon]

About the gay-dar, I have this gay acquaintance who would swear he could tell outright who was straight, bi or gay. So I asked him what I am. He looked at me for half a minute silent until he gave up and told me "I got none".

Originally Posted by kuwisdelu

Therefore we can conclude that all gay non-straight virgins are actually straights in denial.

That reminds me to an infamous memetic online celebrity which I shall not mention further upon.

[BenPanced]

Disappointing Gay Best Friend

(Trust me. You'll go through the series in one night. But he never hits her with his book, dammit!)