50 Shades of Grey trilogy goes from fan fiction to Random House

[jjdebenedictis]

I understand why people find this icky and tacky and unethical, but I take the long view.

The author has to write another book someday. If she isn't a very good writer, then she won't wind up with a career out of this. You can steal an idea, but you can't steal talent.

And if she got a big wind-fall that she didn't deserve? Well, people win the lottery too. No biggie.

It doesn't stop any of us from becoming successful too. Also, a gimmick only works once, so there's no point in obsessing over this particular exploit.

[Polenth]

The book sounds more distinct from Twilight than some of the paranormal romance clones that came out in the following years. I'm not entirely comfortable with how public the serial number filing was in this case, but I don't see it as a major game changer. It was a gimmick that worked this time. Most people who try it will fail.

[Alitriona]

Originally Posted by absitinvidia

All I can say is, if I put a bunch of time into beta reading this and helping the author polish it up, and it got picked up for the big bucks and the published book was 89% similar to my edits, I would be hugely pissed off.

Her husband was her beta, so I don't think that's going to be an issue here.

However, this is one of the issues some in the fandom have. I've seen it stated by some that because they reviewed a fanfic, they somehow then have ownership of it and the writer had no right to pull it offline.

As I said, I read the fic, and if it hadn't been for the names, I would have found nothing specific to twilight in it. No more than it contains elements of a thousand other books.

[KathleenD]

Originally Posted by ChaosTitan

Personally, every time I read the original fanfic title "Masters of the Universe" I flash to Dolph Lundgren in short-shorts waving a huge sword....

If we could all flash to that, the world would be a much funnier place.

It even looks like it goes with the BDSM theme.

(snip)

Originally Posted by Cyia

I don't think the problem is with 50 Shades, it's in the potential precedent. To a (huge) pool of people, this is coming off as "I sold my fanfiction for a fortune, AND YOU CAN, TOO!" Even though that's not the author's intent.

But is that really a problem? To use an example from my neck of the woods, it's like saying all the writers on Nifty.org or Literotica might see an erotic romance writer hit it big and think "If she can sell her one-handed typing, I CAN TOO!" They might think that. They might submit their stuff. But how far are they really going to get? I can't imagine average fanfic is that much better than the average Literotica submission. It boils down to a temporary annoyance for publishers, and then poof, it's gone.

And if their stuff is good, then the world gained another storyteller, in which case, yay.

Originally Posted by veinglory

The difference being that the book, as it stands, is not fanfiction. If it was I think we would have heard back from Meyer's lawyers.

Yep. I expect Random House employs a lawyer or too as well.

I can dream about the awesomeness of the trial, though.

"The defense would like to enter in the following videos of BDSM encounters as evidence that the sex in the plaintiff's books ain't NOTHING like this."

[ChaosTitan]

Originally Posted by gothicangel

What saddens me, here, is that a publisher has chosen to pick up a clone, instead of a work of original fiction.

It feels as though the industry is growing more risk adverse by the day [if that is possible.]

Clone or not, RH picked up a work that they must feel is a sure-fire hit. It has huge word of mouth, and they're pushing to get the paperbacks out quickly.

Publishing is a business, and even though it frustrates me all to hell to see more clones picked up over more original works, there's little I can do about it.

[Sheryl Nantus]

Originally Posted by ChaosTitan

Clone or not, RH picked up a work that they must feel is a sure-fire hit. It has huge word of mouth, and they're pushing to get the paperbacks out quickly.

Publishing is a business, and even though it frustrates me all to hell to see more clones picked up over more original works, there's little I can do about it.

I see plenty of LOTR clones out there and have for decades. Some turn into successful series on their own, some sink like a stone.

This isn't a new trend - and while it might be annoying as all get-out, at least people are reading and talking about books, ebooks and print. It's *good* for copies to be flying off the shelves and *good* for adults to be reading, period.

I used to love watching wee ones struggle to carry the hardcover HP editions to the counter for check-out. While I don't care for HP I can respect anything that gets people to read and continue reading.

FWIW I wrote over 200 stories in my fanfiction years and they all sucked compared to my original works. I wasn't able to convert my fan base to my original novels - so it's not a slam dunk if you "just" rewriter ff and then publish it.

IMO, of course.

[iRock]

And from today's PM:

UK rights to EL James' FIFTY SHADES trilogy, to Susan Sandon at Cornerstone and Selina Walker at Century, in a six-figure deal, according to The Bookseller (UK/Commonwealth). German rights to Goldmann, at auction; Spanish and Catalan rights to Random House Mondadori, by Nicki Kennedy at ILA; Danish rights to Rosinante, by Sam Edenborough at ILA; Korean rights to Sigongsa, in a pre-empt and Serbian rights to Laguna, in a pre-empt, by Jenny Robson at ILA.

[dragonangel517]

I agree that blatant rip offs should not be tolerated. But fan fiction writers are simply giving people what they want. Stephanie Meyers could make untold fortunes if she would license the Twilight world like the Star Trek one. Then the quality could be controlled and there would be no need to change anything. Or she could write the stupid things herself. JR Ward took what was supposed to be a six book series and made into an open ended series because of the popularity and she saw the potential. Of course, IMO, she is a much better writer.

Book publishing is an industry,like any other. The best and easiest way to make money is to give people what they want, and what they seem to want now is more Twilight. It would be stupid to ignore that.

[veinglory]

I can see licensing the world. But what more is there for Bella and Edward to do? That story has been told.

[Torgo]

Originally Posted by gothicangel

What saddens me, here, is that a publisher has chosen to pick up a clone, instead of a work of original fiction.

Who's to say they picked up this 'instead of a work of original fiction' (which is a phrase I'd also like to encase in scare quotes?)

[heza]

Originally Posted by Alitriona

However, this is one of the issues some in the fandom have. I've seen it stated by some that because they reviewed a fanfic, they somehow then have ownership of it and the writer had no right to pull it offline.

That's my only problem with it, on a personal level. I don't share that specific sentiment, but I do think there are some implied social contracts within the fanfic commmunities, themselves, that get violated when you "pull to publish," and I'm not a fan of the practice.


In my opinion, this is basically an original work, inspired, in loose fashion, by the relationship dynamic in Twilight. However, it only garnered widespread success because of and owes its mainstream status to the "grass roots" efforts of its original fanfiction audience.

Other fanfictions have gone the P2P route, but we're only talking about this one because it's doing well commercially. For a lot of bloggers, the crux of the irk seems to come down to how much scrubbing there wasn't. Most people aren't as upset by works that start as fanficions but are extensively rewritten to remove any evidence of the source inspiration. A lot of people appear to be miffed that FSoG was published in, more or less, its fanfic form. But, how much "scrubbing" can you actually do with a story that is so AU to begin with?

The problem doesn't seem to be that the story started as fanfic, and no one is really arguing that it's still recognizable as a version of the Twilight story--it's that the "new" story is still recognizable as the "fanfic," regardless of how AU the fanfic started. That differentiation is a huge gray area that I'm not sure how to sort out. If this story had started closer to the Twilight source, storywise, and had been scrubbed to its current state, I doubt there would have been a perception problem. But it didn't need as much scrubbing to get away from the source, and that's where the problem seems to lie and what makes people wonder whether this was an original fic all along that just had Twilight slapped onto it so people would read it.

I do know that there's very little judgement inside the fanfic community about fics that are wildly AU. And I know that there's not (comparatively) a lot of ire in response to fanfic authors scrubbing a fic to sub to publishers... The two events, taken together, might tell a different story. Whether the author is being disingenuous, I can't say at this point.

[heza]

Originally Posted by veinglory

I can see licensing the world. But what more is there for Bella and Edward to do? That story has been told.

According to the fanfic and RP communities, there's quite a bit left to tell.

[Stew21]

I absolutely believe she wrote a mediocre (if not terribly poor) story and put names on it to tap into a big fanbase. I really believe it was done to use the very big twilight fanfiction base for her gain. It worked. For me, this is the unethical bit that irks me. It was deliberate to gain a fanbase because she never would have gotten one otherwise. (imo). and it stinks for other bdsm writers, because my understanding is that she treats this subject very poorly. if bdsm was going to go mainstream, did it have to go mainstream in such bad fashion? There are legitimate and incredibly talented erotica writers who treat this subject accurately. This book doesn't. It's a shame.
It's shocking how badly it's written (<---from what I understand in reviews) that a big 6 would pick it up, but there is momentum and money to be made. It all comes down to the greed, doesn't it? eta: and it's disheartening, isn't it? To have believed that a good book is what we have to do to get published, and then to be so harshly reminded that it's really just about money. meh. sucks.

[Becky Black]

I've read book that started as converted fanfics before and didn't have a problem with them, but they were from fanfics based on TV shows. Somehow this seems different, being based on a book, whose writer is still writing and making a living from the sales of her books. Doesn't that mean it's actually competing with its source? In a way that a book isn't directly competing with a TV show or movie? That's my instinctive reaction to it anyway.

[heza]

Originally Posted by Becky Black

I've read book that started as converted fanfics before and didn't have a problem with them, but they were from fanfics based on TV shows. Somehow this seems different, being based on a book, whose writer is still writing and making a living from the sales of her books. Doesn't that mean it's actually competing with its source? In a way that a book isn't directly competing with a TV show or movie? That's my instinctive reaction to it anyway.

Twilight fanfics compete with the source? Or scrubbed fanfics that are commercially published compete with the source? In either case, I don't think there is any competition. Typically, scrubbed fics don't bear any resemblance to the source, so there's no competition. Blatant fanfic is read by people (by and large) who are already super-fans of the source, and reading fic doesn't diminish their hunger for more source from the original author. Even if 400 fanfic authors rewrite Twilight from Edward's perspective, Meyer's fans will still buy her version should she ever publish it.

[gothicangel]

Originally Posted by Torgo

Who's to say they picked up this 'instead of a work of original fiction' (which is a phrase I'd also like to encase in scare quotes?)

Well, you did edit out the important part of what I said, about the industry becoming more risk adverse.

Of course it is a business, and they are buying what they know they can sell. We all know since 2009 the industry has become risk adverse [which editors openly admit too.] There is certainly a shift towards publishers picking up more self-published, and now fan-fic inspired works.

It does leave one thinking would I be better off trying to self-publish first? [Not that I would, be the thought is there.]

When I used the word 'instead', I didn't mean they chose this book over a work of original fiction. More that, it homogenizes the book trade, and makes publishing houses less willing to go out on a limb.

[Sheryl Nantus]

But where does she go from here? Sure, she's made a killing with this trilogy... but now what?

Publishers like to get MORE books from their authors, not a one-shot deal. Now what does she do, where does she go, to produce something else that'll resonate with her fanbase.

I don't envy her. She might be rich right now but there's got to be pressure building for another book, another series.

[Torgo]

Originally Posted by Sheryl Nantus

But where does she go from here? Sure, she's made a killing with this trilogy... but now what?

Publishers like to get MORE books from their authors, not a one-shot deal. Now what does she do, where does she go, to produce something else that'll resonate with her fanbase.

I don't envy her. She might be rich right now but there's got to be pressure building for another book, another series.

Don't people go from writing fanfic to original fiction quite often? The way I see it (and I hope this doesn't come off as too condescending) for a lot of fanfic writers, working in someone else's world is a bit like having training wheels while you learn to ride a bike.

[heza]

Originally Posted by Stew21

It was deliberate to gain a fanbase because she never would have gotten one otherwise. (imo). and it stinks for other bdsm writers, because my understanding is that she treats this subject very poorly. if bdsm was going to go mainstream, did it have to go mainstream in such bad fashion? There are legitimate and incredibly talented erotica writers who treat this subject accurately. This book doesn't. It's a shame.
It's shocking how badly it's written (<---from what I understand in reviews) that a big 6 would pick it up, but there is momentum and money to be made. It all comes down to the greed, doesn't it?

I can't comment on the effect it has on BDSM writers, but I do agree that FSoG would very likely not have gone mainstream had it not been for its fanfic origins. In my opinion, it would have languished with some obscure epub, had it gotten published at all, with all the other badly written pron out there, and the better-written erotica would have be continued to be the front runners in the genre.

Originally Posted by Stew21 (quoted out of order)

I absolutely believe she wrote a mediocre (if not terribly poor) story and put names on it to tap into a big fanbase. I really believe it was done to use the very big twilight fanfiction base for her gain. It worked. For me, this is the unethical bit that irks me.

Can you cite why you believe that? I'm not arguing; I just feel like there's a bit of evidence for it floating around out there (based on very emotional arguments I've seen on blogs) that I haven't encountered. It's still a gray area for me, because in my fandoms, I've seen very, very AU fics that bear only token resemblence to the source. I'm still pretty sure those authors are diehard fandom participants and that they really are writing a fanfiction. If those fanfictions became really big deals, then I could also see them pulling to publish. So I'm wondering what's specifically pushing opinion toward the nefarious assumption.

[heza]

Originally Posted by Torgo

Don't people go from writing fanfic to original fiction quite often? The way I see it (and I hope this doesn't come off as too condescending) for a lot of fanfic writers, working in someone else's world is a bit like having training wheels while you learn to ride a bike.

I don't think lousy fic in a "safe" place translates to better original fiction in the real world. Generally, truly awful writing stays truly awful, especially when there's a huge fanbase encouraging and supporting the truly awful writing. Where's the incentive to improve?

That said, and speaking to Sheryl's original point, I'm not so sure that the assumption that if she has to stand on her own, she'll fail is a foregone conclusion. Sure, she started with a fanbase that only read her work because it was branded "Twilight," but there was eventually a transference of fan loyalty to her as a writer, on her own merit (regardless of how people judge the merit of her work--it worked for her fans). Now that her book is mainstream, she has a fan following that has nothing to do with Twilight. So, if those non-Twihards are reading (and apparently loving) her work (no matter the quality), what's to keep them from buying her next erotic novel to get the same thrill?

[Torgo]

Originally Posted by gothicangel

Well, you did edit out the important part of what I said, about the industry becoming more risk adverse.

With respect, I am not sure that it's quite fair to chide me for that, because I don't think I disagree that the industry is risk-averse. I didn't so much edit that out as just excerpt the bit that I wanted to question.

Of course it is a business, and they are buying what they know they can sell. We all know since 2009 the industry has become risk adverse [which editors openly admit too.] There is certainly a shift towards publishers picking up more self-published, and now fan-fic inspired works.

Well, that would indeed be an interesting shift, but then I think we need to see actual statistics on that. Last year, anecdotally. we bought a lot of original YA debuts and nothing from self-pub or fanfic. We're also mulling over bidding big, big money for a couple of things, which suggests to me that we still have some appetite for risk.

When I used the word 'instead', I didn't mean they chose this book over a work of original fiction.

Thanks for clearing that up - that was what I was interested in.

More that, it homogenizes the book trade, and makes publishing houses less willing to go out on a limb.

I'm not sure that follows, though. If they're not choosing the ex-fanfic over something original, are they not buying two books instead of one, and actually increasing variety?

[kaitie]

Originally Posted by heza

Can you cite why you believe that? I'm not arguing; I just feel like there's a bit of evidence for it floating around out there (based on very emotional arguments I've seen on blogs) that I haven't encountered. It's still a gray area for me, because in my fandoms, I've seen very, very AU fics that bear only token resemblence to the source. I'm still pretty sure those authors are diehard fandom participants and that they really are writing a fanfiction. If those fanfictions became really big deals, then I could also see them pulling to publish. So I'm wondering what's specifically pushing opinion toward the nefarious assumption.

I'm in the same boat as you. I've written fanfic, read fanfic, had friends who wrote it, etc., and while I haven't read any in ages, I know that of the people I knew, fanfic was written out of love of a particular story or set of characters.

I have a harder time believing that an author consciously decided "I'm going to make this about Twilight so that I'm more likely to get reads" than that an author fell in love with the story and wanted to write something related, but experiment as well. And I can also see how a lot of fans reading a book and telling you it's wonderful and you should try to get it published could make a person want to try--not out of greed or trying to take advantage of a fandom, but because they believe they might be good enough to succeed.

I think part of what I find most amazing is the lack of editing once the book was contracted. Particularly given the quality I've seen in the samples I've looked at.

What do we know about the story of how this was picked up? Was it that the press knew it was popular so they were the ones taking advantage of the fandom?

[Mharvey]

So, I guess that should give Cassandra Claire hope for an easy cash in. All she needs to do is rename Harry to Marvin and Draco to Dougie in her Harry Potter fan fiction trilogy and ship it to Random House.

[Amadan]

I am not sure why anyone cares about this being retooled fan fiction, beyond general resentment that yet another writer who isn't me crappy writer got a publishing deal.

Does it cause any harm?

(1) Are people going to read 50SoG instead of Twilight, thus depriving Stephanie Meyer of sales?

(2) Is 50SoG going to dilute or confuse the Twilight "brand"?

(3) Will allowing 50SoG to be published threaten Stephanie Meyer's copyright?

(4) Will publishing 50SoG encourage and set a precedent for other people to infringe on copyrights in a manner threatening to authors' rights?

(5) Does 50SoG being published mean some other, better, worthier book isn't being published?

None of those things seem likely to me, with only #4 being remotely plausible, since now more fan fiction authors may indeed get the idea "Hey, I can file the serial numbers off of my AU fan fic and publish it." But let's face it, lots of them try to do this anyway, and a few succeed.

I don't doubt (from the reviews) that this is crappy fanfic-level writing and it's a sad statement that it's being published and will probably sell like hotcakes, but objectively, who does it harm?

[Captcha]

Originally Posted by Mharvey

So, I guess that should give Cassandra Claire hope for an easy cash in. All she needs to do is rename Harry to Marvin and Draco to Dougie in her Harry Potter fan fiction trilogy and ship it to Random House.

Does Cassandra Claire really need to be hunting for hope? Last I heard she was doing pretty well.