Never use a verb other than "said" to carry dialogue?

I think the idea is that a character's tone should ideally be identifiable through the dialogue and through their actions. So if someone storms in the room, knocks over a chair and says "come here." You wont need to add "he growled" or "he said ferociously."

As always, there are exceptions, but that's how I see it.

Also, if the reader knows whose POV they're in they will know who is speaking, so there'll be no need to mentioned who "said" what at all as it can be inferred.

It's a guideline, sure. I wouldn't say never, but 99% of the time, said is fine. It does its job, it doesn't draw attention to itself in teh way 'he ejaculated' does

But other tags are fine, as long as every time someone speaks they don't cry, whimper, murmur, demand, grumble, retort, whine etc etc. Cos that gets real old, real quick. Let the dialogue carry the way it's said when you can. The 1% of time you can't, use something else. ETA: I'd still steer clear of ejaculated though. Those of us with filthy minds will immediately think of something else

I couldn't get to where you were so don't know who said what or if the attribution is correct or not. Instructions beginning with 'never' should be taken with a pinch of salt, although the never refers to using something else to carry the dialogue.

'Said' is a virtually invisible tag and works fine if the reader doesn't already know and needs to know who said a particular line.

But if you in your wisdom want to say 'shouted' or 'whispered' or whatever, feel free.

Just don't overuse whatever you use in place of 'said' and remember that carefully worded dialogue is the best way of showing us 'how' something was said - or carrying the dialogue.

Spend time on choosing the right words and correctly phrasing the dialogue rather than on trying to find alternatives to 'said'.

As long as characters aren't forever gasping, or exclaiming, or grumbling, then go nuts. Said is useful because it's invisible. If you use other tags sparingly, they'll have more impact.

danrupe said:

Never use a verb other than "said" to carry dialogue. The line of dialogue belongs to the character; the verb is the writer sticking his nose in. But "said" is far less intrusive than "grumbled", "gasped", "cautioned", "lied". I once noticed Mary McCarthy ending a line of dialogue with "she asseverated" and had to stop reading and go to the dictionary.

Is this an accepted "rule" or just his opinion? When I read an exchange with a bunch "said"s, it makes me think I'm reading a children's book.

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He's right that verbs which simply restate what the dialogue is already telling you are redundant and intrusive. Ditto overly flowery ones. But you can use non-said verbs in moderation.

For example, it's next to impossible to denote whispering via the words themselves, so I consider this to be a perfectly legitimate dialogue tag. I also use near-invisible tags like "replied" to break up the rhythm.

Like all "rules" of writing, it's a matter of using your common sense and adapting them to your own voice, not following them slavishly.

danrupe said:

Is this an accepted "rule" or just his opinion?

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A couple of weeks ago, I had the pleasure of listening to Leonard talk at the Tucson Book Festival. He did mention that every rule has exceptions, and a writer is only limited by what readers will buy.

In my dialogue, I use, in decreasing order:

No tag (when it's obvious who's speaking)
He said/asked (but rarely twice in a row)
He cried, moaned, whispered, croaked, whined, etc.

and much less often,
He said, briskly/dismissively/etc (only when there's no convenient verb that will do, and when the tone isn't obvious from context.)
.

danrupe said:

Following links I got this little bit of info from Elmore Leonard (http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2010/feb/20/ten-rules-for-writing-fiction-part-one):

Never use a verb other than "said" to carry dialogue. The line of dialogue belongs to the character; the verb is the writer sticking his nose in. But "said" is far less intrusive than "grumbled", "gasped", "cautioned", "lied". I once noticed Mary McCarthy ending a line of dialogue with "she asseverated" and had to stop reading and go to the dictionary.

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Funnily enough, this is a pretty good example of someone asseverating.

danrupe said:

Is this an accepted "rule" or just his opinion?

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He's atypical in his usage, but certainly not alone.

danrupe said:

When I read an exchange with a bunch "said"s, it makes me think I'm reading a children's book.

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Hmmm, that might just be you.

You can get away with nearly any verb, but getting away with something just means it could have been done better. If you have to use other verbs, it means you either don't trust your dialogue, or, more likely, your dialogue is as bad as your tags.

I also could not open the link. It went to a blank page.

Never use a verb other than "said" to carry dialogue. The line of dialogue belongs to the character; the verb is the writer sticking his nose in. But "said" is far less intrusive than "grumbled", "gasped", "cautioned", "lied". I once noticed Mary McCarthy ending a line of dialogue with "she asseverated" and had to stop reading and go to the dictionary.

Is this an accepted "rule" or just his opinion? When I read an exchange with a bunch "said"s, it makes me think I'm reading a children's book.

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I don't think it's a rule at all, but more of a guideline. Everything in moderation.

Said is an excellent tag because it's almost invisible. However, I've seen other dialogue tags that work fine in a story.

I beta read for a writer whose dialogue was outstanding. It was much better than the dialogue in some bestsellers. Each character's voice was distinctive enough that tags were hardly needed at all. Yet she propped up nearly every line with telly tags other than said, adverbs and facial expressions/eye movements which weakened otherwise strong dialogue.

I hope she took to heart my exhortations to stick mainly with said.

My point is, sometimes it's a matter of the writer lacking confidence in her skills and not an actual lack of skill.

That said, I'm leery of any writing advice that begins with "never."

danrupe said:

Is this an accepted "rule" or just his opinion? When I read an exchange with a bunch "said"s, it makes me think I'm reading a children's book.

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read a book with all "hissed", "pleaded", "whined", "moaned breathlessly" and you'll think it was written by squirrels with meth habits or little emo flowers eager to fully utilize their angst in sophomore English. It gets ridiculously, painfully tiring.

this is one more rule thread....there is no absolute for every case, but often, a different dialogue tag does little, and a string of them weaken a story

All writing "rules" boil down to someone's opinion.

And you know what they say about opinions.

Let the action and dialogue do the work its meant to. Readers are smart. They know what things mean if you write them well enough.

POV.

Sometimes it seems to me that venerable distributors of rules forget that a POV influences the style in which a scene is written.

Say, if you write from the point of view of a paranoid wife (no matter 1st or 3rd person) you can safely write that her husband "hissed" or "growled".

I personally think you should just use 'said' unless absolutely necessary. If you can't tell from the dialogue and context how something is said, you need to work on your dialogue and context. Of course there are always some exceptions... like Anne Lyle, I think 'whispered' can be okay if it's important to know it's a whisper, because there aren't many other ways to indicate that, and some other tags along those lines... but I really think only if it's important to know.

And, of course, if you can cut out any dialogue tags entirely, do! [though they are good for rhythm and pacing sometimes, even if we know who's talking].

It IS all opinions though, of course. That's mine.

I guess I'm on team "use other words than said as needed" here. I get bored by reading said over and over again, especially if there's no context for the dialogue exchange. It's very hard to write good minimalist dialogue (not to say you shouldn't try). But I like other words to get across the feeling, characterization, etc. I'm also a fan of using other clues besides verbs. ("He scratched his neck," "She turned away," etc.)

I think it's a preference thing, not a rule.

Usually, if you're getting bored reading "said," it's because dialogue tags are being overused altogether.

Yeah, the word 'never' makes me roll my eyes in situations like this. Sometimes you NEED to point out that a character is whispering or screaming or mumbling without wasting a lot of time and space building up a lot of context so that the reader can GUESS what the character is doing without you saying the actual word.

In my opinion that 'rule' is badly written and explained. What it really should be saying is something like 'Try not to use annoying dialogue tags that distract from the story.'

I try to use "ejaculated" as often as possible.

Just kidding. I never use that in dialogue. Yet.

All rules apply to "most of the time." When it works to use something other than said, it works. What doesn't work is when an author usually uses words other than said, under the mistaken belief that it's too boring to use said frequently. In reality, "said" becomes kind of invisible to the reader. It's unobtrusive. By contrast, words other than said will stick out. Sometimes you want that. But if all your dialogue tags are sticking out, then your prose has become purple, and that's not a good color for prose.

Once upon a time, I read a tip that suggested you only elaborate upon "said" (either by adding an adverb, or replacing it with "whispered", "shouted", "grumbled", etc.) if the intent of the dialogue is not clear, or you're changing what the assumed tone would be.

"Come here! I'm going to shoot you in the face!" he whispered.

"Aww! Look at the sleeping baby!" she screamed at the top of her lungs.

"She's dead. Oh my goodness, I can't believe she's dead!" Jane said cheerfully.

And so on.

Libbie said:

I try to use "ejaculated" as often as possible.

Just kidding. I never use that in dialogue. Yet.

All rules apply to "most of the time." When it works to use something other than said, it works. What doesn't work is when an author usually uses words other than said, under the mistaken belief that it's too boring to use said frequently. In reality, "said" becomes kind of invisible to the reader. It's unobtrusive. By contrast, words other than said will stick out. Sometimes you want that. But if all your dialogue tags are sticking out, then your prose has become purple, and that's not a good color for prose.

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this.

you can pretend it is an all-or-nothing thing, and then go find the instances where your favorite author uses something other than "said" and wave them around like a bloody scalp, BUT in general "said" is correct. Don't believe me? Go find some bad fanfic, where "said" is the exception, and see how far you get before the other tags first amuse, then irritate you.

Too many "special" tags strips them of meaning instead of enhancing it, yanking the reader out of the work as they do so.

HoneyBadger said:

Usually, if you're getting bored reading "said," it's because dialogue tags are being overused altogether.

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Word.

Often you don't need a tag - if it's clear who is talking for ex.

'Are you sure?' I said.
'Positive,' he said.
'All righty then!' I said.
'Oh lay off the Ace Ventura,' he said.
'But, but...' I said. 'I like Ace!'
'So do I, ' he said. 'But there are limits.'
'Fine,' I said. 'How about the Mask? That's a spicy meatball!'
'Don't make me hit my head on the desk,' he said.

You don't need all those saids....