Houses, bedrooms and I hate my mortgage

seun · Apr 13, 2012

My wife and I have had a couple of valuations on our house and have spoken to our mortgage provider - the result looks like we're staying put for another year.

The thing is our neighbours are in the same position we are in terms of mortgage and house shape/size. They've just had an estate agent round who's told them something new to me. Apparently, our three bedroom houses can't be sold/advertised as three bed because the third room feeds off the second rather than having a separate door.

Does anyone know if this is true in UK law or is it estate agent bullshit? Our neighbours first valuer told them they should get on the market now as they'll lose ten grand in value by this time next year which smells distinctly iffy to me.

Silent Rob · Apr 13, 2012

I really wouldn't trust anything an estate agent told me, especially if it's about the future. Nobody knows what'll happen in a year's time. You might lose 10 grand, you might gain it. I s'pose all you can do is play the cards you have right now.

As far as the two/three bed thing goes, I'm really not sure about that. I know when we've had listings put together the agent's been really twitchy about all sorts of things, even to the point of refusing to say we were within walking distance of the beach (we lived about 500 yds from it), just in case somebody couldn't make it that far under their own steam.

If I were you, I'd make sure you get photos taken that clearly show what the arrangement is, and make sure the written description is accurate too. Don't be shy about editing what they write.

Hey, this isn't at all helpful, is it? Oh well, the intention was good.

Hope it works out for you!

seun · Apr 13, 2012

Thanks for the advice, Rob. Been looking online and there are a few houses close to us in distance and size. They're on for the figures we're looking at so I think this might be estate agent talk for 'if you sell now, I get ma money'.

I have also seen some houses online that are listed as three bed when the floorplans suggest they're the same as mine so nads to the idea of going with it's a two bed house. All we need to do now is actually make a profit on this place. Easy, right?

:rant:

brainstorm77 · Apr 13, 2012

seun said:
My wife and I have had a couple of valuations on our house and have spoken to our mortgage provider - the result looks like we're staying put for another year.

The thing is our neighbours are in the same position we are in terms of mortgage and house shape/size. They've just had an estate agent round who's told them something new to me. Apparently, our three bedroom houses can't be sold/advertised as three bed because the third room feeds off the second rather than having a separate door.

Does anyone know if this is true in UK law or is it estate agent bullshit? Our neighbours first valuer told them they should get on the market now as they'll lose ten grand in value by this time next year which smells distinctly iffy to me.

This would be correct where I live. It's also the same if a bedroom doesn't have a window.

Silent Rob · Apr 13, 2012

Might be worth talking to a couple more agencies as well. They can vary enormously in the levels of common sense they bring to the table.

As for the rest...destroy them!

seun · Apr 13, 2012

brainstorm77 said:
This would be correct where I live. It's also the same if a bedroom doesn't have a window.

Yeah, but you're surrounded by snow and moose and Mounties and hockey players. :tongue

Silent Rob said:
Might be worth talking to a couple more agencies as well. They can vary enormously in the levels of common sense they bring to the table.

We got three quotes. They're different by about £25k.

brainstorm77 · Apr 13, 2012

seun said:
Yeah, but you're surrounded by snow and moose and Mounties and hockey players.

List it. If you can't get what you want for it in the end then delist. If this is a matter of not being happy where you're currently living, it'll be worth it.

seun · Apr 13, 2012

I like your thinking. We've got two problems, though. First is a loan we had to take out when we got our first mortgage. It's tied to our house and while we can take it with us instead of having to pay it when this place is sold, the monthly payment goes up. Second is our absolute minimum selling price if we want to put a deposit together on a new house is beyond the top end of the selling price in our area.

Our mortgage advisor said the best thing to do is wait another year and sell next spring. That does make sense as we'll have paid another year's worth on this place.

sassandgroove · Apr 13, 2012

good luck

Maryn · Apr 13, 2012

Remember, too, that in that year, you can do all the inexpensive sprucing-up things which will make your house shine compared to its competition. Curb appeal by getting the lawn into good shape, maybe adding flowers which will be blooming when you go on the market, fresh interior paint, a thorough decluttering you'd want to do if you're moving anyway, closets reorganized and tidied so they appear to have ample room, carpets shampooed or replaced if they're worn, or the floors polished.

For us, the decluttering would take the whole year.

Maryn, who likes "things"

brainstorm77 · Apr 13, 2012

seun said:
I like your thinking. We've got two problems, though. First is a loan we had to take out when we got our first mortgage. It's tied to our house and while we can take it with us instead of having to pay it when this place is sold, the monthly payment goes up. Second is our absolute minimum selling price if we want to put a deposit together on a new house is beyond the top end of the selling price in our area.

Our mortgage advisor said the best thing to do is wait another year and sell next spring. That does make sense as we'll have paid another year's worth on this place.

Go with your gut feeling on what's right. That's my best advice. You have a goal to move towards and that's good.

CACTUSWENDY · Apr 13, 2012

In the USA it would only be a two bedroom.

You have to have a door to separate it to count as a third room. Not sure about over there.

Mr Flibble · Apr 13, 2012

All the houses down our road have the third bedroom coming off the second. They are always advertised as either 2/3 bed, or 2 and a half bed. (They do have a door to separate)

So I'd say the estate agent is talking bollocks.

Sucks on the rest though

I'd go with Brainie's plan myself.

Caitlin Black · Apr 13, 2012

brainstorm77 said:
This would be correct where I live. It's also the same if a bedroom doesn't have a window.

Sorry to derail slightly, but... Does this mean that my dream house that has no major windows would have to be listed as 0 bedrooms?

I don't like windows.

Caitlin Black · Apr 13, 2012

Note: I do not have that dream house yet. And for all I know, there's something essential about having windows built...

Paul · Apr 13, 2012

seun said:
My wife and I have had a couple of valuations on our house and have spoken to our mortgage provider - the result looks like we're staying put for another year.

The thing is our neighbours are in the same position we are in terms of mortgage and house shape/size. They've just had an estate agent round who's told them something new to me. Apparently, our three bedroom houses can't be sold/advertised as three bed because the third room feeds off the second rather than having a separate door.

Does anyone know if this is true in UK law or is it estate agent bullshit? Our neighbours first valuer told them they should get on the market now as they'll lose ten grand in value by this time next year which smells distinctly iffy to me.

first bold bit is true.

second bit is dodgy advice. house prices are falling, but not that much in the uk.

overall, waiting a year will only gain you a saving advantage, not a house price adv.

(prices are stable/ falling slightly, though city location varies this fact)

so, you'll have a chance to save. house prices wont increase in the next 12 months, so, as i say, your savings is the issue.

SWest · Apr 13, 2012

seun said:
My wife and I have had a couple of valuations on our house and have spoken to our mortgage provider - the result looks like we're staying put for another year.

The thing is our neighbours are in the same position we are in terms of mortgage and house shape/size. They've just had an estate agent round who's told them something new to me. Apparently, our three bedroom houses can't be sold/advertised as three bed because the third room feeds off the second rather than having a separate door.

Does anyone know if this is true in UK law or is it estate agent bullshit? Our neighbours first valuer told them they should get on the market now as they'll lose ten grand in value by this time next year which smells distinctly iffy to me.

"Office Party" style advice incoming:

Hang a door and bash through a window.

But maybe that's just the bitterness of having ZERO housing market where we currently reside.

On the serious side? You might ask to see the guidelines in writing. Our house "on paper" (for tax purposes, for example) bears very little resemblance to its actual floor plan/room usage.

*vibes-of-fortune*

:Hug2:

seun · Apr 14, 2012

Maryn said:
Remember, too, that in that year, you can do all the inexpensive sprucing-up things which will make your house shine compared to its competition.

That was part of the long term plan - thanks to two cats, we've got scratches where you wouldn't believe. We could do with a big sort out.

seun said:
Apparently, our three bedroom houses can't be sold/advertised as three bed because the third room feeds off the second rather than having a separate door.

IdiotsRUs said:
All the houses down our road have the third bedroom coming off the second. They are always advertised as either 2/3 bed, or 2 and a half bed. (They do have a door to separate)

So I'd say the estate agent is talking bollocks.

Paul said:
first bold bit is true.

Just realised I phrased the separate door issue badly. All three rooms have their own doors - I meant you have to go through one room to get to the third, rather than simply facing three doors when you get upstairs. D'oh. There are a few houes close to mine which are the same age and layout and they're online as three bed. Sigh. What fun this is.

Cliff Face said:
Sorry to derail slightly, but... Does this mean that my dream house that has no major windows would have to be listed as 0 bedrooms?

I don't like windows.

But how am I supposed to peek at you? Uh, I mean...uh...

seun · Apr 14, 2012

SWest said:
But maybe that's just the bitterness of having ZERO housing market where we currently reside.

*vibes-of-fortune*

We're bitter, as well. We bought about a month before the market died a death. We could have saved easily £20-25 grand. Four years later, we're struggling to break even let alone make anything close to a profit.

heyjude · Apr 14, 2012

SWest said:
"Office Party" style advice incoming:

Hang a door and bash through a window.

This was my first thought, too.

Good luck with it all, seun.

Mr Flibble · Apr 14, 2012

seun said:
All three rooms have their own doors - I meant you have to go through one room to get to the third, rather than simply facing three doors when you get upstairs.

That's what I thought you meant

Yeah, all advertised as 2/3 bed or 2 and a half bed. Whether they are supposed to is another matter I suppose

Caitlin Black · Apr 14, 2012

I hear you on the house market being tanked right now... When mum sold her place, she only just managed to break even. Considering that she had the place built, and did it up pretty nicely, she should've made a profit, quite a reasonable one... Alas, no.

Are you planning on buying a cheaper house once your current one is sold? It gives the illusion of making a profit, even if you just break even.

...

Also, there's this rule down here in South Australia (not sure about anywhere else) where you have to have something like 25m^2 of outdoors area for every bedroom in the house...

So instead of listing 4 bedrooms, we listed 3 bedrooms and a study.

Although, just a thought - if you can't list your 3rd bedroom as a bedroom, listing it as a study might be a good idea. Down here, when people see "Study" in a property listing, it basically means, "Decent size room you can do whatever you want with - even an extra bedroom."

seun · Apr 15, 2012

Cliff Face said:
Are you planning on buying a cheaper house once your current one is sold? It gives the illusion of making a profit, even if you just break even.

Although, just a thought - if you can't list your 3rd bedroom as a bedroom, listing it as a study might be a good idea. Down here, when people see "Study" in a property listing, it basically means, "Decent size room you can do whatever you want with - even an extra bedroom."

The plan was to buy a bigger house, but I don't know how likely that is at the moment. But then I can't see the point of moving to a house pretty much the same as the one we've got now.

The study thing is interesting. Got be honest, I don't think I've ever seen that in a house listing here unless you're looking at a huge place with grounds instead of a garden. You know, the sort of house that comes with a butler.

Alessandra Kelley · Apr 15, 2012

Cliff Face said:
I hear you on the house market being tanked right now... When mum sold her place, she only just managed to break even. Considering that she had the place built, and did it up pretty nicely, she should've made a profit, quite a reasonable one... Alas, no.

Are you planning on buying a cheaper house once your current one is sold? It gives the illusion of making a profit, even if you just break even.

...

Also, there's this rule down here in South Australia (not sure about anywhere else) where you have to have something like 25m^2 of outdoors area for every bedroom in the house...

So instead of listing 4 bedrooms, we listed 3 bedrooms and a study.

Although, just a thought - if you can't list your 3rd bedroom as a bedroom, listing it as a study might be a good idea. Down here, when people see "Study" in a property listing, it basically means, "Decent size room you can do whatever you want with - even an extra bedroom."

We don't have the outdoor space requirement here. Otherwise we would never have had "McMansions," where someone buys a modest bungalow or other medium-sized house with a nice bit of yard, knocks down the house and replaces it with something huge and flashy but built of mediocre materials which takes up almost the entire lot.

Caitlin Black · Apr 15, 2012

seun said:
The plan was to buy a bigger house, but I don't know how likely that is at the moment. But then I can't see the point of moving to a house pretty much the same as the one we've got now.

So you're going bigger, and presumably more expensive. Mum just did the opposite - downsizing to save money. Wasn't sure which way you were heading. Hmm. You probably need at least to break even, preferably to turn a profit. Not sure what the market's like over there, but now isn't a good time for turning a profit down here...

The study thing is interesting. Got be honest, I don't think I've ever seen that in a house listing here unless you're looking at a huge place with grounds instead of a garden. You know, the sort of house that comes with a butler.

LOL, "the sort of house that comes with a butler." Yeah, we're so posh. :tongue

Down here, every house I remember living in had a study - just a room that's a bit small for a bedroom maybe, but which can be put to most any use. I think we started using the term for all the home business people... Maybe I'm mistaken, but I just assumed that anybody who read "Study" on a house for sale would immediately think, "Woo! Bonus room!" and not so much for any library/office connotations...

Alessandra Kelley said:
We don't have the outdoor space requirement here. Otherwise we would never have had "McMansions," where someone buys a modest bungalow or other medium-sized house with a nice bit of yard, knocks down the house and replaces it with something huge and flashy but built of mediocre materials which takes up almost the entire lot.

Yeah, I'm not sure why we need the outdoor space as an actual rule. I mean, if you wanted a garden, that's fine. But I don't do "outdoors" very much, so I'd prefer a bigger house that makes better use of the plot. *shrug*

Houses, bedrooms and I hate my mortgage

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