Handling discouragement?

[James D. Macdonald]

Originally Posted by WildScribe

My problem is less with discouragement with my own writing and more with feeling like a failure because my narcolepsy means I just can't work as much as I want to.

Drop over to Making Light to talk with another literary-lifestyle narcoleptic (the blog owner).


Meanwhile, to answer the OP:

If I understand you correctly the problem is that your still-incomplete book isn't as good as the published books you read.

A big part of this is that you're comparing your first draft to someone else's fully-revised-and-edited book. That's like comparing your half-made little wooden box to someone else's completed, sanded, stained, sealed, and varnished wooden box. Don't do it.

See also John Scalzi's Practical Writing Advice. (Part of the response (AKA universal derision) to the awful "Confessions of a Mid-List Writer" that Salon ran a few years back.)

[M_K_S]

Originally Posted by DidiBlue

By accepting that there will always be better writers than me. There will always be someone who writes better, sells more books, has more readers, has a better vision. This is just the way the world works. And knowing that frees me to...well, just be me.

No one can write your story with your words. So don't worry so much about it. Write your stories the best way you know how. Compete with yourself, not other writers.

There is a lot of therapeutic advice in what Didblue has to say on this topic. Although I am painfully new at the write-submit process, I think the two biggest notions to consider are acceptance and expectations. Acceptance has much to do with what Didi said. If you accept that there are better writers out there, the comparisons will be less painful. Also, be willing to adjust your expectations. A few years ago I submitted a piece for a contest. I daydreamed often about what it would be like to win the contest. The rejection letter caused me to put the pen down for a long time. That was pathetic on my part. I have to constantly remind myself that I get a rush from writing when I create something unique and exciting-I enjoy that rush. I dream of getting published, but I don't expect it to happen.
In the 11th grade I heard a quote that has stayed with me to this day: "Diligence is the mother of good luck." I think if someone wants to get published, you have to approach it like a job. I have yet to do this.

[Libbie]

I agree with Jim. You can't be so hard on yourself that you're letting yourself judge your UNFINISHED novel against finished works. That's just not fair to you.

As for discouragement in general, it's a real bitch. My first two books went through the agent-editor wringer for two years and never sold. I never felt discouraged once. With my third, it collected a total of 82 rejections (only two from actual reads...the rest were form rejections), including one rejection from one of my former agents. For some reason the third one got me bad, and I ended up in a serious, serious depression during which I quit writing altogether. "Breakdown" might be a better description than "depression." It was truly awful. I'm still in it to a small degree. My confidence was horribly damaged and I've had a hell of a time trying to reconstruct some feeling of self-worth. I'm not there yet.

I have to say, I agree with that agent three years ago who told a roomful of people that luck is the biggest factor in getting trade-published. No need to get all tiffy and feel insulted by it. He was telling the truth. Just look at some of the things that have been published recently...badly written Twilight fanfiction getting million-dollar contracts? Certainly "quality writing" or "original ideas" are not primary criteria in the publishing industry, so yeah, it can be horribly discouraging and it makes it obvious how much luck plays a part...being in the right place at the right time.

OP, you haven't finished your book yet. You should just remind yourself that it's too soon to feel discouraged about your writing abilities, because a first draft, especially an unfinished one, is no representation to you or to anybody else of how well you can write. Keep going until you've finished and revised it. Then you can feel free to get discouraged by this often very discouraging industry, but not until then. And not for too long.

[bearilou]

Originally Posted by James D. Macdonald

See also John Scalzi's Practical Writing Advice. (Part of the response (AKA universal derision) to the awful "Confessions of a Mid-List Writer" that Salon ran a few years back.)

My Google-fu failed me because I've been looking for this post for a while. Now I have it again!

[Libbie]

Originally Posted by James D. Macdonald

See also John Scalzi's Practical Writing Advice. (Part of the response (AKA universal derision) to the awful "Confessions of a Mid-List Writer" that Salon ran a few years back.)

Great link...and now I need to look up Confessions of a Mid-List Writer to see just how bad it was. Sure seemed to piss Scalzi off, but I like his advice and his perspective. And his honesty in admitting that luck has a lot to do with it. It sure as shit does.

Edit: Here 'tis. http://www.salon.com/2004/03/22/midlist/

Edit again: After reading the link above, I admit there is a lot of melodrama in it and I can see why it pissed John Scalzi off. But her post, too, was very honest, and it's worth it for all aspiring writers to read it.

Both articles make me very glad I'm living and writing during a time when self-publishing has become a viable option for reaching readers and building a career, albeit very slowly and only with a lot of networking and marketing savvy. At least it gives writers another means of finding appreciative readers. Even eight years ago, when these two articles were written, that was not the case, and it was trade publish or nothing. So there is some hope, and some reason (to bring this back around to the original topic) not to be too terribly discouraged.

[LadyV]

I get discouraged a lot. In fact, I'm going through a stint of it right now. A lot of it is due to my overall lack of self-confidence.

For me, time is the only thing that helps me get through it. Knowing that I'm not only one that goes through this also helps.

[scarletpeaches]

Originally Posted by Libbie

I have to say, I agree with that agent three years ago who told a roomful of people that luck is the biggest factor in getting trade-published. No need to get all tiffy and feel insulted by it. He was telling the truth.

The first thing one must do to be published is write a book, and luck doesn't write it for you.

No, I'm not traditionally published (yet) but when I am it won't be because I was lucky; it'll be because I was ready.

ETA: When I say I'm not traditionally published, I mean not through an agent and a major publishing house. For the purposes of this post I'm ignoring the "lucky" ten contracts I have with epublishers.

[Libbie]

Yes, obviously one must write a book first, or there's nothing to publish, and clearly luck doesn't write a book.

Beyond that, well, I don't know what to tell you. I've spent the past three years of my life doing virtually nothing but trying to get three damn good books picked up by a trade publisher. I'm convinced luck plays a much larger role in landing a contract than anybody here is willing to admit. At least there are some agents out there telling the truth, and some established and honest authors such as John Scalzi telling the truth as well.

[blacbird]

Originally Posted by Libbie

I'm convinced luck plays a much larger role in landing a contract than anybody here is willing to admit.

Ahem (cough cough) . . . care to name a name? . . . (cough cough)

cawf

[Libbie]

Originally Posted by blacbird

Ahem (cough cough) . . . care to name a name? . . . (cough cough)

cawf

What? Like everybody. There seems to be this mythology in Writerland that all you have to do is write a good book, and it will get published, and that's all you need to worry about.

While it's useful advice for the beginners who are freaking out about things they don't need to worry about until after they've completed a book and then revised the hell out of it, it's not an accurate representation of what actually goes on when one begins actually trying to get published.

But that's a digression that takes us too far off the topic, though the OP is a good example of a writer who's worrying about things he/she doesn't need to trip out over just yet. Discouragement comes at all different points of the process, and it's a long and maddening and often senseless process. But nobody who's only 40K words into his or her first draft needs to feel discouraged yet. The book has the potential to go anywhere right now, and comparing it to completed works is unfair to the book and to the author's own self.

[Amadan]

Originally Posted by Libbie

What? Like everybody. There seems to be this mythology in Writerland that all you have to do is write a good book, and it will get published, and that's all you need to worry about.

Take out the struck-out line and yeah, what's mythical about that?

That doesn't mean your good book will be published immediately or that you won't go through much angst and rejection before it finds a home.

There's of course a lot of luck involved in terms of who gets picked up in such a way to help their career take off from the start, who hits the market at just the right time, who happens to catch Oprah's eye, etc. But Scalzi isn't saying "Everyone who writes a publishable book is playing lotto, and I had a winning ticket."

[skink]

"You know that sickening feeling of inadequacy and over-exposure you feel when you look upon your own empurpled prose? Relax into the awareness that this ghastly sensation will never, ever leave you, no matter how successful and publicly lauded you become. It is intrinsic to the real business of writing and should be cherished."

Will Self


I once attended a workshop at a writers' festival run by a publishing editor. Having looked at our work she said: ' Look, nobody in this room is ever going to get published. It's a numbers game, and nobody here has the talent to even get noticed, let alone published. You need to accept that your writing is a hobby, and get whatever satisfaction you can from that.'

I just signed a two-book contract with a publisher, a bigger house than the one that editor worked for. Guess who's going to get the first copy?

If you ever feel that you're a good writer, that's the first sign that you are not. Do not believe anything said to you by anyone in the industry except the person that says they want to publish you. Everyone else is usually bullshitting you to make up for the fact that their house is falling, they have no money, their list is full, or just can't be arsed to read your work.

Get two or three people you really trust, whose opinion you respect, and who are strong enough to tell you things you don't want to hear, and listen to them. Ideally this should not be anyone you share a bed with. Everyone else has their own agenda and takes some sort of dark pleasure from belittling other people.


'Don't look back until you've written an entire draft, just begin each day from the last sentence you wrote the preceding day. This prevents those cringing feelings, and means that you have a substantial body of work before you get down to the real work, which is all in the edit.'
Will Self

[Civic]

I once attended a workshop at a writers' festival run by a publishing editor. Having looked at our work she said: ' Look, nobody in this room is ever going to get published. It's a numbers game, and nobody here has the talent to even get noticed, let alone published. You need to accept that your writing is a hobby, and get whatever satisfaction you can from that.'

I just signed a two-book contract with a publisher, a bigger house than the one that editor worked for. Guess whose going to get the first copy?

That's a great anecdote. While not every book someone writes will be published, this is the sort of thing every writer should have in mind.

[Libbie]

Originally Posted by Amadan

But Scalzi isn't saying "Everyone who writes a publishable book is playing lotto, and I had a winning ticket."

I don't think he was saying that at all. I do think he was saying, "Luck plays a much larger factor than you are aware of."

And sorry, but I don't believe for a second that every good book ever written will eventually get published. I think there are tons of them out there on whom the luck gods never smiled. The timing was never right, the market was never perfectly receptive, etc. It's rather naive to state that all you have to do is write a good book, and eventually it WILL be published. True, many if not most will have to go through a lot of waiting and angst before any of their books get published. But there will also be a lot who never do.

"All good books will be published" is a lovely fantasy.

[Amadan]

Originally Posted by Libbie

And sorry, but I don't believe for a second that every good book ever written will eventually get published.

Of course not. Some writers either give up, or decide the Publishing Gods simply hate them.

[Libbie]

While I totally love your tale of sticking it to that curmudgeon editor with your two-book deal, this:

Originally Posted by skink

If you ever feel that you're a good writer, that's the first sign that you are not.

is another totally unfounded myth that gets passed around an awful lot here. Not everybody who has some confidence in his or her work is a delusional noob. Some of us have confidence because we've beaten relative objectivity into ourselves through a lot of painful years of critique and reworking. To write off any experience other than the cliche "All of my writing is dross, I tell you, dross!" stereotype of the hand-to-forehead writer is, well, to see the world in cliches, and no writer wants to do that.

Do not believe anything said to you by anyone in the industry except the person that says they want to publish you. Everyone else is usually bullshitting you to make up for the fact that their house is falling, they have no money, their list is full, or just can't be arsed to read your work.

So let me get this straight. You are saying that you should ONLY believe the person who says they want to publish you, and the agent who says they actually really like your book but it just doesn't fit their list or they don't have the right contacts to sell it, or the small-press editor who says they can't take you this time because they blew their budget on other projects and don't have any room for you until five years from now...they're all lying, and what they really are saying is that you suck out loud?

That just doesn't make sense to me.

Get two or three people you really trust, whose opinion you respect, and who are strong enough to tell you things you don't want to hear, and listen to them. Ideally this should not be anyone you share a bed with.

Except you just told us not to listen to anybody's opinion except the person who says they want to publish you.

Everyone else has their own agenda and takes some sort of dark pleasure from belittling other people.

Now that, I will believe.

I'm not trying to harsh on you personally, Skink. I'm just pointing out how contradictory and illogical some of the myths of Writerland can be.

[Libbie]

Originally Posted by Amadan

Of course not. Some writers either give up, or decide the Publishing Gods simply hate them.

I don't believe in gods.

[shaldna]

Originally Posted by celticroots

I am nearly 40,000 words in my current WIP. My dream is to have a novel published. But when I see novels that have been published I feel discouraged sometimes.

I know right now the number 1 thing is to finish my draft, then revise. Discouragement shouldn't come into the picture yet. But it does.

How do you deal with discouragement when you're writing isn't where you want it to be?
And oops that was supposed to be handling in the title not handing. Lol.
Thanks!

The first time I read Return of the King I almost stopped writing because I knew that nothing I ever wrote was going to be as good as that.

But then I realised my definition of the bestest book evvuh isn't necessarily the same as another persons - I know people who hatehatehate that book, think it's the worst piece of grammatically incorrect, meandering tripe that they've ever had the misfortune of reading. And you know what? Both of us are right.

Taste is subjective. And it's our personal tastes which dictate what we feel is quality literature - I mean, do you know that there are people out there who think Twilight is a good book? Or that there are people who actually aspire to write like Dan Brown?

When it comes to my own writing I don't judge it based on other people's work. If I did then I would spend all my time sitting in the dark crying.

Instead, when I read something that I love, something amazing, instead of feeling like I should just give up, I tell myself that one day I'M going to write something that makes someone else feel that way.

Originally Posted by scarletpeaches

I got rid of any fairweather friends. You know the type. Only around when things are going well, if you get a rejection they brush it off but when they do the whole world better stop and listen to them whine...

I'd second this. Also, get rid of any negative friends - you'll know that type as well - the ones who make catty little comments, or seem to be secretly pleased when things go wrong for you.

No one needs a toxic friend.

What you DO need, however, is a Fuck 'Em attitude. Every time I get let down by someone, rejected by an editor, or get a bad review I COULD get sad and wallow, but instead I channel that into my writing. I immediately think 'fuck you. I'm gonna show you how good I can be'

Originally Posted by Libbie

I have to say, I agree with that agent three years ago who told a roomful of people that luck is the biggest factor in getting trade-published. No need to get all tiffy and feel insulted by it. He was telling the truth.

I know there's been some debate about this on this thread already, but I do agree with the luck factor.

I've seen it, most of us have. Writing a good book is the START, and there's no luck in that, just hard work. But selling a book, like selling anything else, needs a dose of luck - the right book at the right time to the right editor.

[katci13]

Originally Posted by gothicangel

Personally, when I read a book that is so great, that makes me think "I'll never be that good," instead of getting discouraged, I turn it around. My attitude is: what can I learn from this book to improve my writing?

This is what I started doing when I realized wallowing in self-doubt and discouragement was getting me nowhere. Now when I see something amazing, I think, I don't know if I can do that, but I'm sure as hell going to try!

People who are better than me make me better. I let myself feel depressed for a few hours, perhaps rant a bit to my sister. Then I pick myself up and go off on a tangent about how I can tweak my writing to make it better, whether it's plot-wise, description-wise, character-wise, world building-wise, vocabulary-wise, whatever that fabulous author did to get under my skin like that and make me think for a hot minute that I'm not fabulous in my own right.

[WriteMinded]

Originally Posted by Libbie

Great link...and now I need to look up Confessions of a Mid-List Writer to see just how bad it was. Sure seemed to piss Scalzi off, but I like his advice and his perspective. And his honesty in admitting that luck has a lot to do with it. It sure as shit does.

Edit: Here 'tis. http://www.salon.com/2004/03/22/midlist/

Edit again: After reading the link above, I admit there is a lot of melodrama in it and I can see why it pissed John Scalzi off. But her post, too, was very honest, and it's worth it for all aspiring writers to read it.

Both articles make me very glad I'm living and writing during a time when self-publishing has become a viable option for reaching readers and building a career, albeit very slowly and only with a lot of networking and marketing savvy. At least it gives writers another means of finding appreciative readers. Even eight years ago, when these two articles were written, that was not the case, and it was trade publish or nothing. So there is some hope, and some reason (to bring this back around to the original topic) not to be too terribly discouraged.

Well thanks for the link. That's the most depressing thing I've read about publishing since I started writing. I feel like going to bed now and never getting up again.

I put my first novel away after something like 180k and started a new one. I was able to finish it by avoiding articles, comments, and books about how difficult it is to get published. I knew if I started thinking that way, I'd go into the dark place. Well, now I'm there. Self-publishing is not an option for me.

[Libbie]

Sent you a PM, WriteMinded. Don't sit in the dark place! There's no point! There's SUNSHINE AND DAISIES EVERYWHERE! Hugs.

[Layla Nahar]

Originally Posted by Libbie

Don't sit in the dark place!

I like the dark place. They have cookies.

[Libbie]

No, no, that's the dark side. They're in totally different neighborhoods.

[Layla Nahar]

Originally Posted by Libbie

No, no, that's the dark side. They're in totally different neighborhoods.

Oh. That explains a lot. Well, it's very easy to get lost wandering around here in the dark. Good cookies, anyway.

[OctoberLee]

Debbie Maccomber gave a speech at the conference I was at, and one of the things I think she said (or at least, I took away from what she said) was YOU HAVE TO WANT IT MORE THAN ANYTHING. There are a lot of people here who are published and lots who aren't published but are obstinate and persistent and because of this, maybe they'll be published someday. If you don't want it, you won't finish, you won't revise, and you won't submit.

If you want it, maybe, like me, you'll keep your first rejection letter (snail mailed my first full like a year ago) and see it as a challenge. It's hard sometimes--rejection bites. But if you can see discouragement and rejection as a challenge to keep going, it helps. Good luck