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Old 08-24-2012, 12:28 PM   #1
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Richard III's remains: Leicester car park dug up
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...shire-19361350

I really really hope that they do find Richard's remains and are able to give him a proper burial.
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Old 08-24-2012, 04:03 PM   #2
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That sounds interesting, though I really doubt that they will find his bones - there is a lot of ground where he might be, and pinning their hopes on one spot is rather optimistic. I hope they do, I just won't be holding my breath...
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Old 08-24-2012, 04:18 PM   #3
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I wonder how they know he's under the tarmac. It's a small space surrounded by buildings. What will they do if it turns it he's under a house? Or the next door block?

And I'm puzzled as to why they are doing this.
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Old 08-24-2012, 04:25 PM   #4
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And I'm puzzled as to why they are doing this.
Well, he was king of England.
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Old 08-24-2012, 04:33 PM   #5
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there's some cosmic justice to his bones being as lost to the ages as those of the nephews he had murdered.
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Old 08-24-2012, 04:37 PM   #6
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Well, he was king of England.

Yeah so? We don't usually go around digging up our Royals. And we've had more than enough of them.

And if they do find bones, how will they prove they belonged to Richard?

I don't know. Just seems a bit pointless.
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Old 08-24-2012, 04:38 PM   #7
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We don't know for sure that he had his nephews murdered.
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Old 08-24-2012, 04:47 PM   #8
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We don't know for sure that he had his nephews murdered.
of course not.

he didn't display their heads on pikes, but most historians are hard-pressed to find anyone with more of a motive for having them out of the way.
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Old 08-24-2012, 04:56 PM   #9
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I wonder how they know he's under the tarmac. It's a small space surrounded by buildings. What will they do if it turns it he's under a house? Or the next door block?
I've just done a Google satellite thingy and if I looked at the right place then there is quite a lot of space for them to dig in. Also, there is some more information here http://news.leicester.gov.uk/newsArc...l.aspx?Id=1665 about the research methods they will use. GPR - ground penetrating radar and "map regression analysis to identify the likely site of the church where Richard was buried".

There are also methods of digging under houses, especially if they have cellars, that can be used. If they cannot dig then, in some cases, GPR can help them map out what is under the buildings

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And I'm puzzled as to why they are doing this.
I think it is because there are many challenges involved - using the science of archaeology, finding the exact location of the Greyfriars Church and the main one of finding the remains of a King.
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Old 08-24-2012, 05:00 PM   #10
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I don't know. Just seems a bit pointless.
I agree!

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of course not.

he didn't display their heads on pikes, but most historians are hard-pressed to find anyone with more of a motive for having them out of the way.
Margaret Beaufiort? I'm a fan of Philippa Gregory's books and not ashamed to admit it.
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Old 08-24-2012, 05:06 PM   #11
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Yeah so? We don't usually go around digging up our Royals. And we've had more than enough of them.
Shouldn't that be "I've had enough of them"?
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And if they do find bones, how will they prove they belonged to Richard?
DNA tests.


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of course not.

he didn't display their heads on pikes, but most historians are hard-pressed to find anyone with more of a motive for having them out of the way.
Been reading Shakespeare's RIII? Pure Tudor propaganda. Richard had no reason to dispose of his nephews.
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Old 08-24-2012, 06:46 PM   #12
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Shouldn't that be "I've had enough of them"?
Errrmmmm no. That wasn't what I meant. I meant that it's not like we're so short of royalty we have to go and dig some up. We've had what? a thousand years worth? How much are we actually going to learn by doing this?

As for DNA, how many matching alleles will it take to prove it's Dick? How accurate can it be unless the descendant comes from a really inbred family......

I just don't see the point.
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Old 08-24-2012, 07:02 PM   #13
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How accurate can it be unless the descendant comes from a really inbred family......
Well, we are talking about royalty...
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Old 08-24-2012, 07:14 PM   #14
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As for DNA, how many matching alleles will it take to prove it's Dick? How accurate can it be unless the descendant comes from a really inbred family......
If you had a verified male line descendent, you'd be in with a shout. Otherwise he's just another dude from the Middle Ages.


EDIT: actually, that's not true. If you had a verifiable body of a close male-line ancestor/descendent of Richard, you could get pretty close to certain.
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Old 08-24-2012, 11:46 PM   #15
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The guy I saw on the news this morning that they will do the tests on is descended from Richard's sister, Elizabeth.
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Old 08-25-2012, 12:01 AM   #16
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Archaeologist report

Item sought: remains of King of England
Location: car park
Items found: tin can (empty, formerly lima beans), license plate, leather workboot (no laces)
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Old 08-25-2012, 12:13 AM   #17
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I wonder how they know he's under the tarmac.
Probably the same way they knew Jimmy Hoffa was buried under the end zone at Giants Stadium.
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Old 08-25-2012, 12:43 AM   #18
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there's some cosmic justice to his bones being as lost to the ages as those of the nephews he had murdered.
Says the Tudor propagandists.

I'd love to think they'll find his remains and getting a fitting burial. The man deserves it after history gave him such a rough deal.
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Old 08-25-2012, 03:00 AM   #19
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Old 08-25-2012, 07:17 AM   #20
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Errrmmmm no. That wasn't what I meant. I meant that it's not like we're so short of royalty we have to go and dig some up. We've had what? a thousand years worth? How much are we actually going to learn by doing this?
Ah, I see. Thank you for explaining.
I don't think this is just about royalty, more about finding out about the past of the City of Leicester. Finding RIIIs remains would be a bonus. Digging up a car park would not get a lot of publicity but mentioning RIII does.

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As for DNA, how many matching alleles will it take to prove it's Dick? How accurate can it be unless the descendant comes from a really inbred family......

I just don't see the point.
I think it is the University of Leicester who have traced a direct descendant of RIIIs sister. Said descendant was at the start of the dig. As for accuracy, Sir Alec Jeffreys is Professor of Genetics at Leicester University. He developed DNA fingerprinting and profiling so I would guess they know what they are doing.
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Old 08-25-2012, 11:55 AM   #21
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I think it is the University of Leicester who have traced a direct descendant of RIIIs sister. Said descendant was at the start of the dig. As for accuracy, Sir Alec Jeffreys is Professor of Genetics at Leicester University. He developed DNA fingerprinting and profiling so I would guess they know what they are doing.
How could you possibly know that you're the direct descendant of anyone living 700 years ago? One unreported adoption -- or one illegitimate shag if there's a male in the line -- and the entire line goes under.
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Old 08-25-2012, 12:27 PM   #22
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How could you possibly know that you're the direct descendant of anyone living 700 years ago? One unreported adoption -- or one illegitimate shag if there's a male in the line -- and the entire line goes under.
If you go from 1485, RIIIs death then it is approx five hundred years, not seven hundred. Lots of people can trace their families back further than that. As most property and lineage goes through the male then "one illegitimate shag" would not have made much difference. Unless of course it was the wife who cuckolded her husband. There has already been considerable research into Plantagenet DNA for example http://plantagenetdna.webs.com/richardiiisdna.htm according to this article, if I have read it correctly, DNA already exists for RIII. The last paragraph is interesting.
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Old 09-01-2012, 12:21 AM   #23
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A week on . . .
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The discovery of medieval walls shows a search for the lost grave of Richard III is "on the right track", archaeologists have said.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...shire-19436299
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Old 09-01-2012, 11:42 PM   #24
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Old 09-02-2012, 12:00 AM   #25
mirandashell
I'm not a bitch! I'm English!
 
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: England
Posts: 8,147
mirandashell is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsmirandashell is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsmirandashell is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsmirandashell is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsmirandashell is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsmirandashell is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsmirandashell is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsmirandashell is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsmirandashell is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsmirandashell is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsmirandashell is so great that we've run out of appropriate compliments
Was that meant to be a joke?
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