Welcome to the AbsoluteWrite Water Cooler! Please read The Newbie Guide To Absolute Write

editing for authors ad

A publisher or agency using Google ads to solicit your novel probably isn't anyone you want to write for.


Go Back   Absolute Write Water Cooler > Discussion > Bewares, Recommendations & Background Check
Register FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-30-2006, 07:18 PM   #1
edorothyb
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Samhain Publishing

Hi,

Does anyone have any dealings with Samhain Publishing? They say their contract is negotiable...is it? Need information as soon as possible. Thank you.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2006, 08:08 PM   #2
CaoPaux
Mostly Harmless
SuperModerator
 
CaoPaux's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Coastal Desert
Posts: 11,286
CaoPaux is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCaoPaux is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCaoPaux is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCaoPaux is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCaoPaux is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCaoPaux is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCaoPaux is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCaoPaux is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCaoPaux is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCaoPaux is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCaoPaux is so great that we've run out of appropriate compliments
http://samhainpublishing.com/

They're an ebook publisher. What terms of their contract did you want to negotiate? Since "negotiable" doesn't equal "we'll give you anything you want", be sure you understand what rights you're willing to part with, etc., and don't be afraid to decline a deal you don't feel comfortable with.
__________________
ICAO
---------
Achievers strive for excellence. Perfectionists drive themselves to extinction. -- A Grapple A Day
I've never known any trouble that an hour's reading didn't assuage. -- Charles DeSecondat

2013: II2014:

Last edited by CaoPaux; 01-31-2006 at 05:04 AM. Reason: Godly Mod split thread.
CaoPaux is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2006, 10:47 PM   #3
edorothyb
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Samhain Publishers

They are also planning to go into print. What does grants to the publisher and its licensees "for the full term of the copyright available.... the following Primary and Secondary rights" mean?
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2006, 10:59 PM   #4
Aconite
Gone
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,587
Aconite is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsAconite is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsAconite is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsAconite is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsAconite is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsAconite is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsAconite is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsAconite is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsAconite is so great that we've run out of appropriate compliments
Quote:
Originally Posted by edorothyb
They are also planning to go into print. What does grants to the publisher and its licensees "for the full term of the copyright available.... the following Primary and Secondary rights" mean?
It means it would be a good idea to have a reputable agent or a lawyer familiar with publishing look over the contract. An inexperienced layperson is probably better off not trying to negotiate alone. Google Volunteer Lawyers for the Arts and find your local chapter's info.
__________________
Winner of Uncle Jim's Whoo Hoo Super Writer Award and Nomad's Most Use of Vowels in a Screen Name Award as well as Maryn's Only Person on AW Whose Name Anagrams to "I, Octane," "Act I (One)" and "Nice tao" Award in addition to batgirl's Culpeper Award for Botanically Erudite Screen Name plus awatkins' AW's Most Creative Srounger [sic] of Rep Points Award not to mention azbikergirl's Arizona Most Awarded Writer Award and also Dawno's Most Interesting Signature Line Award
Aconite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2006, 11:07 PM   #5
CaoPaux
Mostly Harmless
SuperModerator
 
CaoPaux's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Coastal Desert
Posts: 11,286
CaoPaux is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCaoPaux is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCaoPaux is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCaoPaux is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCaoPaux is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCaoPaux is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCaoPaux is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCaoPaux is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCaoPaux is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCaoPaux is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCaoPaux is so great that we've run out of appropriate compliments
Quote:
Originally Posted by edorothyb
They are also planning to go into print. What does grants to the publisher and its licensees "for the full term of the copyright available.... the following Primary and Secondary rights" mean?
What Aconite said, because that might translate to "life of author plus 70 years". Make very sure your counsel is familiar with publishing contracts in particular, because many "contract lawyers" aren't.
__________________
ICAO
---------
Achievers strive for excellence. Perfectionists drive themselves to extinction. -- A Grapple A Day
I've never known any trouble that an hour's reading didn't assuage. -- Charles DeSecondat

2013: II2014:
CaoPaux is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2006, 02:02 AM   #6
victoriastrauss
Writer Beware Goddess
Absolute Sage
 
victoriastrauss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Far from the madding crowd
Posts: 6,503
victoriastrauss is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsvictoriastrauss is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsvictoriastrauss is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsvictoriastrauss is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsvictoriastrauss is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsvictoriastrauss is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsvictoriastrauss is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsvictoriastrauss is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsvictoriastrauss is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsvictoriastrauss is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsvictoriastrauss is so great that we've run out of appropriate compliments
Quote:
Originally Posted by edorothyb
What does grants to the publisher and its licensees "for the full term of the copyright available.... the following Primary and Secondary rights" mean?
It means you're granting the rights specified in the contract for the full term of copyright, which is the life of the author plus 70 years. Primary rights usually means book rights--printing and distributing the book in various parts of the world. Secondary rights, also known as subsidiary rights, might include book club, dramatic, audio, film, serial, translation, and others.

Before you get alarmed about "life plus 70", this is standard publishing contract language (though not optimal for an electronic or digital publisher--more on that below). However, it MUST be balanced by a clear and unambiguous termination/out of print clause, which specifies exactly how and under what circumstances a book will be declared out of print, and what steps you can then take to get the rights returned to you. Many small POD-based publishers, which are often run by people without publishing experience, have poor or unclear termination clauses, or may even omit a termination clause entirely.

As I noted above, "life plus 70" isn't ideal for a digital or electronic publisher. This is true for a variety of reasons--their books typically sell in small quantities and for a short period of time, they often go bust after only a few years in business, and their lack of business expertise often makes for all kinds of problems, from nonpayment of royalties to nonproduction of books. Also, things in the digital universe change fast, and if there's a better option you want to be able to jump on it. All of this means that you don't want to be tied to an e- or digital publisher for too long. Either a time-limited contract (1-3 years) or a contract that allows you to terminate at will with adequate notice is far preferable to "life plus 70".

Another issue: smaller publishers often aren't capable of marketing secondary or subsidary rights (many of them are aren't capable of marketing their books, but that's a whole 'nother can of worms). A publisher shouldn't demand rights it isn't able to sell. Yet many small publishers want a whole smorgasbord of subrights, and often aren't willing to negotiate this.

- Victoria
__________________



Victoria Strauss
www.victoriastrauss.com
Writer Beware: www.writerbeware.com
Writer Beware Blog: www.accrispin.blogspot.com
Follow me on Twitter


victoriastrauss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2006, 11:56 PM   #7
edorothyb
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Unhappy Samhain Publishing

Thank you, Victoria and Others.

I have been going over this contract for days now wondering whether I want to be associated with a publisher that wants my baby before it's even a twinkle in my eye. But I sent it off to a lawyer friend of mine who may be able to help. If not, whether she can or not, I am going to check out the "Volunteers for the Arts" for help. Thanks again,

Elena
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2006, 01:34 AM   #8
victoriastrauss
Writer Beware Goddess
Absolute Sage
 
victoriastrauss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Far from the madding crowd
Posts: 6,503
victoriastrauss is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsvictoriastrauss is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsvictoriastrauss is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsvictoriastrauss is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsvictoriastrauss is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsvictoriastrauss is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsvictoriastrauss is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsvictoriastrauss is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsvictoriastrauss is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsvictoriastrauss is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsvictoriastrauss is so great that we've run out of appropriate compliments
If your lawyer doesn't have intellectual property experience, specifically publishing experience, the odds are she won't be able to help you. Publishing contracts are very specialized documents, and contain terms and clauses not found in other kinds of contracts. Unless you're knowledgeable about those terms and clauses, you may not be able to recognize an author-unfriendly contract. This is especially important when you're dealing with contracts from small publishers, which are often extremely nonstandard.

- Victoria
__________________



Victoria Strauss
www.victoriastrauss.com
Writer Beware: www.writerbeware.com
Writer Beware Blog: www.accrispin.blogspot.com
Follow me on Twitter


victoriastrauss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2006, 03:22 AM   #9
Carlene
New kid, be gentle!
 
Carlene's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Coos Bay, OR
Posts: 760
Carlene is a shiny, shiny jewelCarlene is a shiny, shiny jewel
Samhain Publishing?

Hi all - has anyone heard of Samhain Publishing? I went to the website and it looks like a ebook pub. I'm asking because I just got a solitation from them. An editor I had from another publisher is now working there and said she liked my book that she edited so much, she wanted to me send her whatever I have. She did say she couldn't guarantee publication. I won't even bother if it's strictly ebook, but she did say they do paperbacks and distribute through Ingram to Borders, Waldenbooks to name a few. I checked Preditors & Editors but they don't have anything. I'm just curious as I don't have a finished manuscript right now.

Thanks,

Carlene
www.crdater.com
Carlene is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2006, 03:28 AM   #10
Sassenach
5 W's & an H
 
Sassenach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Southern Calif.
Posts: 2,200
Sassenach should run for PresidentSassenach should run for PresidentSassenach should run for PresidentSassenach should run for PresidentSassenach should run for PresidentSassenach should run for President
From their site [under 'Submissions']:

Samhain is a royalty paying ebook company that offers 40% of the cover price (as set by Samhain Publishing, Ltd) for a single-author ebook.
__________________
I feel God in this Chili's.
-Pam Beesley








Sassenach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2006, 04:02 AM   #11
veinglory
volitare nequeo
AW Moderator
 
veinglory's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: right here
Posts: 25,269
veinglory is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsveinglory is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsveinglory is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsveinglory is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsveinglory is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsveinglory is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsveinglory is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsveinglory is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsveinglory is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsveinglory is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsveinglory is so great that we've run out of appropriate compliments
They are a new epublisher. If they have plans to move into paperback publishing there isn't much evidence of it.
__________________
Taniwha in the Cleis Press anthology 'Beach Bums' [order now!]

veinglory is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2006, 05:13 AM   #12
KPainter
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Samhain was started by Chrissy Brashear, one of the Ellora's Cave co-founders. I don't think there are any plans at this stage to take their titles into print.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2006, 09:29 AM   #13
pepperlandgirl
American Aquarium Drinker
 
pepperlandgirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 810
pepperlandgirl has earned our admirationpepperlandgirl has earned our admirationpepperlandgirl has earned our admirationpepperlandgirl has earned our admiration
Actually, there are plans to go to print, as far as I know. Their contract stipulates print rights, not just e-rights, and Christine has discussed it on the author loop as well. She specifically mentioned everything over a certain word or page count would be elgible for print. (I paid attention to that bit because it looks like my book with them will be my first officially printed and not just published online).

I haven't seen any indication that her plans have changed.
pepperlandgirl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2006, 08:11 PM   #14
Carlene
New kid, be gentle!
 
Carlene's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Coos Bay, OR
Posts: 760
Carlene is a shiny, shiny jewelCarlene is a shiny, shiny jewel
Thanks Peppergirl!

Carlene
Carlene is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2006, 07:59 PM   #15
CaoPaux
Mostly Harmless
SuperModerator
 
CaoPaux's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Coastal Desert
Posts: 11,286
CaoPaux is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCaoPaux is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCaoPaux is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCaoPaux is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCaoPaux is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCaoPaux is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCaoPaux is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCaoPaux is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCaoPaux is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCaoPaux is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsCaoPaux is so great that we've run out of appropriate compliments
'ere's where they've come up before: http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26307
__________________
ICAO
---------
Achievers strive for excellence. Perfectionists drive themselves to extinction. -- A Grapple A Day
I've never known any trouble that an hour's reading didn't assuage. -- Charles DeSecondat

2013: II2014:
CaoPaux is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2006, 09:41 PM   #16
ShannonStacey
New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin
 
ShannonStacey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: NH
Posts: 38
ShannonStacey is on a distinguished road
The first three Samhain titles (the launch books) are already in print and on the shelves at Borders! As things stand now, there's only a 3-month window between e-release and print release, and that---along with Borders real estate---is pretty awesome for a new company.
ShannonStacey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2006, 09:44 PM   #17
veinglory
volitare nequeo
AW Moderator
 
veinglory's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: right here
Posts: 25,269
veinglory is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsveinglory is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsveinglory is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsveinglory is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsveinglory is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsveinglory is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsveinglory is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsveinglory is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsveinglory is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsveinglory is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsveinglory is so great that we've run out of appropriate compliments
They do seem to be a great publisher but as they are primarily an epublisher I wouldn't assume that every book goes to print--I imagine that would need to be discussed upon acceptance.
__________________
Taniwha in the Cleis Press anthology 'Beach Bums' [order now!]

veinglory is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2006, 09:52 PM   #18
veinglory
volitare nequeo
AW Moderator
 
veinglory's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: right here
Posts: 25,269
veinglory is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsveinglory is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsveinglory is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsveinglory is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsveinglory is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsveinglory is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsveinglory is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsveinglory is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsveinglory is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsveinglory is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsveinglory is so great that we've run out of appropriate compliments
I stand corrected--Samhain go straight to print after a few months and their authors seem very happy with the deal.
__________________
Taniwha in the Cleis Press anthology 'Beach Bums' [order now!]

veinglory is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2006, 11:04 PM   #19
Branwyn
Print release:Sept.1,'09
 
Branwyn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Purgatory's Pit of Doom
Posts: 1,766
Branwyn has a golden reputationBranwyn has a golden reputationBranwyn has a golden reputationBranwyn has a golden reputationBranwyn has a golden reputationBranwyn has a golden reputation
Hmmm, perhaps something to consider???
__________________
The Hanging Tree-WIP
Harvest Moon-WIP
myspace.com/elladonna
The Upside of Karma
Branwyn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2006, 08:47 AM   #20
AnneMarble
Nefarious Ghost Fan
 
AnneMarble's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: MD
Posts: 2,773
AnneMarble is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsAnneMarble is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsAnneMarble is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsAnneMarble is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsAnneMarble is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsAnneMarble is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsAnneMarble is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsAnneMarble is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsAnneMarble is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsAnneMarble is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsAnneMarble is so great that we've run out of appropriate compliments
Quote:
Originally Posted by veinglory
They are a new epublisher. If they have plans to move into paperback publishing there isn't much evidence of it.
I saw a couple of their books in the romance section of Borders today (along with the other trade paperbacks), but I'm pretty sure this was the first time I'd seen them. As far as I could tell, there were only two Samhain books there, one copy of two different titles. So even if they are showing up in stores, they probably won't turn up in mall stores, etc.
__________________
THE Official FreakTM
That's not me in my avatar. That's Papa Emeritus II and the Nameless Ghouls of Ghost
-- AARlist2, my romance reader discussion group
Dubbed "Cool Thread Starter Girl" by JeanneTGC
AnneMarble is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2006, 08:29 PM   #21
veinglory
volitare nequeo
AW Moderator
 
veinglory's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: right here
Posts: 25,269
veinglory is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsveinglory is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsveinglory is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsveinglory is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsveinglory is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsveinglory is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsveinglory is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsveinglory is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsveinglory is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsveinglory is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsveinglory is so great that we've run out of appropriate compliments
The company has only been going a few months with 3 books out in print, so I think having two of then in any given Borders is an excellent result for what is, so far, a smallish press.
__________________
Taniwha in the Cleis Press anthology 'Beach Bums' [order now!]

veinglory is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2006, 04:36 AM   #22
Ciar Cullen
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
I even registered to post for the first time on this topic of Samhain. They are very new, and I have 7 books contracted with them. I'm not entirely new to epublishing, with books at four companies over the last two years. Samhain has been the most writer-friendly to date. As Veinglory points out, the books do automatically go to trade size into Borders and Waldens 3 months after release (if length qualifies them). Plan in the works for good sellers to go to mass market. C. Brashear and co. have moved very, very quickly. Who knows? All these start-ups have the potential to go belly-up (or to get very icky) at any time, but this company has been professional, communicative, supportive--all the warm and fuzzies along with the solid business stuff. Hope that helps.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2006, 07:05 PM   #23
Branwyn
Print release:Sept.1,'09
 
Branwyn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Purgatory's Pit of Doom
Posts: 1,766
Branwyn has a golden reputationBranwyn has a golden reputationBranwyn has a golden reputationBranwyn has a golden reputationBranwyn has a golden reputationBranwyn has a golden reputation
It's good to hear for a change
__________________
The Hanging Tree-WIP
Harvest Moon-WIP
myspace.com/elladonna
The Upside of Karma
Branwyn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2006, 02:55 AM   #24
veinglory
volitare nequeo
AW Moderator
 
veinglory's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: right here
Posts: 25,269
veinglory is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsveinglory is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsveinglory is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsveinglory is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsveinglory is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsveinglory is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsveinglory is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsveinglory is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsveinglory is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsveinglory is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsveinglory is so great that we've run out of appropriate compliments
I liked the look of them enough to submit a novel that has just been accepted. So give it a few months and I should have more to report
__________________
Taniwha in the Cleis Press anthology 'Beach Bums' [order now!]

veinglory is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2006, 03:38 AM   #25
Branwyn
Print release:Sept.1,'09
 
Branwyn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Purgatory's Pit of Doom
Posts: 1,766
Branwyn has a golden reputationBranwyn has a golden reputationBranwyn has a golden reputationBranwyn has a golden reputationBranwyn has a golden reputationBranwyn has a golden reputation
That's great! Congrats!
__________________
The Hanging Tree-WIP
Harvest Moon-WIP
myspace.com/elladonna
The Upside of Karma
Branwyn is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Custom Search

If this site is helpful to you,
Please consider a voluntary subscription to defray ongoing expenses.

Buy Scrivener 2 for Mac OS X (Regular Licence)


All times are GMT +4.5. The time now is 12:41 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.