Question: Introducing a new POV late in the story

Chrissy · Jan 27, 2013

Someone told me last year it was "bad form" to introduce a new POV (it's in first person, because both my other 2 POVs are also in first person) late in the book. It's a 285 page MS, and the new POV is one chapter, just a few pages, starting on page 253. This person is in the book from almost the beginning, but from my other 2 POVs, and a fairly minor (seeming) character.

My questions are these: would it annoy you on principle? Or, could it work, if done right? And, have you ever seen it done before (well or badly)?

I like my chapter and I don't want to give it up. I've been working hard to make the voice entirely unique, and I really want his POV to be heard. The alternative seems to be him "talking" to one of my other POVs in some long rambling dialogue. Which isn't like him... and there seems to be neither opportunity or reason for him to do so. And it's not in his "character" to do that, anyway.

Thanks for any advice.

Bufty · Jan 27, 2013

If you think the reader, too, will enjoy and/or wants to know what this character (whom they already know, apparently) thinks about whatever is going on, I say go for it.

Of course it could work.

Chrissy · Jan 27, 2013

Thanks. I guess when this lady said it was "bad form," I was concerned I didn't know something basic. Never took classes on "form" or anything.

Also, I read a lot, but I can't say I've seen it done before, that I recall.

Kerosene · Jan 27, 2013

It depends. You have to make it work.
I'd say its fine. (I'm faint on when it switched by the way you wrote your explanation). To me, it seemed you've established POV, you have introduced the next POV character, identified the story. So I see no problem with switching. But the killer word here is: Why? Why do it? Especially this character? It seems to me like you just want another camera angle, of which you won't just let go without showing it to the reader.

Generally, I don't like POV changes in 1st person. I've always seen it done badly for first.
Though, I write multiple third with many, many POVs, and I try to make it work.

Chrissy · Jan 27, 2013

Thanks, Will. My book is alternating chapters of 2 first person POVs. I've been told that this is working fine. Their voices are very different, plus I have chapter headers with their names. It's the 3rd POV comes in on page 253 that's "odd." The why is because there really isn't anyone else who can tell his story. He has a secret, and has basically been unable to communicate throughout the book. And he's been seemingly a minor character. A nuisance to one of my main POVs. But his story is important. The only other way I can think to "get it out him" is to have him engage in a dialogue with one of my 2 POVs, where he "confesses" or whatever. Right now, I've got it as him narrating, where he is basically all by himself, reviewing his life and about to commit suicide.

LJD · Jan 27, 2013

It could be jarring, but I don't see it as a problem on principle. It could be done well. A book I read a few weeks ago had a new POV in the last chapter: The Girl Who Chased the Moon (Sarah Addison Allen). I thought it was appropriate in that case.

Chrissy · Jan 27, 2013

Thanks for the rec, LJD. I'm going to check it out.

ElaineA · Jan 27, 2013

LJD said:
It could be jarring, but I don't see it as a problem on principle. It could be done well.

This was my thought as well. I haven't had issues with books in two alternating first person POVs as long as it's completely understood whose mind we're in.

I'm wary of a 3rd voice suddenly popping up, however, if you've considered him a minor character all along and now, near the end of the story, what he knows or has to say is so important he MUST have his own tale told. To me, that says he's not so minor and, as a reader, I would want to have had some clues about this. It's okay if the clues are there and I've chosen to ignore them, but they need to be in the story. You call him a "seemingly minor" character so I'm assuming you've left hints along the way. I think the "bad form" would be if you left your reader feeling cheated by that big reveal. Avoid that and you should be fine.

Dreity · Jan 27, 2013

I think it will be fine as long as you've established the character well enough and dropped hints that he's going to do something important. It certainly could be jarring, or it could be a nice surprise for the reader. "Ahh, yes, I've been wondering about you, and now I get to find out!"

Jamesaritchie · Jan 27, 2013

Well, how many times have you seen this done in published novels? I've only seen it done once, it was jarring, and the book was a flop. That may not have been the reason, but it sure made me regret buying the novel.

Alternating POVs is fine, as long as it's consistent, and I suspect almost anything can be made to work, but I'd be very careful abut introducing a third person POV that late in a book after the entire book is written in first person.

LJD · Jan 27, 2013

Chrissy said:
Thanks for the rec, LJD. I'm going to check it out.

Note that it's in third person.
I do think it's harder to pull off in first person, and I can't think of an example of that, actually.

Buffysquirrel · Jan 27, 2013

This is something that would annoy me, but I'm only one reader. I like to play around with POV in my writing, but there's limits.

ETA: Also, tbh, I'm not sure the fun I have with POV would be accepted....

FETA: (you'd think I'd sort my thoughts out before posting) Where I have seen this done very badly is in Horror short stories. The main story will be in first person, then there'll be a third person epilogue of sorts to fill in the gaps left by (usually) the death or disappearance of the first-person narrator. I hate that.

jeffo20 · Jan 27, 2013

This is one of those things that can be hard to judge without actually seeing it in action.

As others have said, if you're going to switch the POV, you need to make sure you have a reason for doing it, and you have to make it clear right away who's POV it's in. You don't want anyone reading for several paragraphs thinking it's in Myra's POV, then suddenly realizing it's in Bobo's.

I like my chapter and I don't want to give it up. I've been working hard to make the voice entirely unique, and I really want his POV to be heard.

Again, just make sure you have a really good reason for the switch. The novel I'm querying is told in first person, from one character's POV only. At one point while drafting, I had a brainstorm and wrote two short chapters from another character's POV. They came out of nowhere, and I absolutely loved the voice, the feel, everything, but I decided to leave them out. It was actually helpful to write those pages, and I learned a lot about the character, but I don't think they would have worked. I don't want to make assumptions, but it sounds like you're enamored with this chapter. Keep it if it works, but be objective. Keep it only if it works.

Wilde_at_heart · Jan 27, 2013

Chrissy said:
Thanks, Will. My book is alternating chapters of 2 first person POVs. I've been told that this is working fine. Their voices are very different, plus I have chapter headers with their names. It's the 3rd POV comes in on page 253 that's "odd." The why is because there really isn't anyone else who can tell his story. He has a secret, and has basically been unable to communicate throughout the book. And he's been seemingly a minor character. A nuisance to one of my main POVs. But his story is important. The only other way I can think to "get it out him" is to have him engage in a dialogue with one of my 2 POVs, where he "confesses" or whatever. Right now, I've got it as him narrating, where he is basically all by himself, reviewing his life and about to commit suicide.

So long as the character is introduced much earlier in the story and I gather he is...

One option is to write both versions - as dialogue and as fp pov and see after which one works better...

Susan Coffin · Jan 27, 2013

You say this is a POV person who has been in the book all along (I presume this person is made known via conversations and possible flashbacks of other characters), but you introduce the person late in the story in one chapter.

I am a true believer that anything can work, but first you might want to think about what your purpose is for bringing the character in that late to the story as opposed to early in the story.

You say you like your chapter and don't want to give it up. If you don't want to give something in a story up, it's probably time to take a good hard look at if it really needs to be there.

rwm4768 · Jan 27, 2013

As long as you specify who's narrating, I don't think it should be a problem. Some would say you should never use more than one first-person narrator, but it can be done. It could be a little jarring to the reader, but I've read multiple third books that introduce points of view late in the book. It takes an adjustment at first, but it can work.

Zombie Kat · Jan 28, 2013

Chrissy said:
Thanks, Will. My book is alternating chapters of 2 first person POVs. I've been told that this is working fine. Their voices are very different, plus I have chapter headers with their names. It's the 3rd POV comes in on page 253 that's "odd." The why is because there really isn't anyone else who can tell his story. He has a secret, and has basically been unable to communicate throughout the book. And he's been seemingly a minor character. A nuisance to one of my main POVs. But his story is important. The only other way I can think to "get it out him" is to have him engage in a dialogue with one of my 2 POVs, where he "confesses" or whatever. Right now, I've got it as him narrating, where he is basically all by himself, reviewing his life and about to commit suicide.

Are you sure, sure, sure his POV is the only way to tell this story? Because with some of the times I've seen this done, it has kind of felt like the author was using the alternative POV chapter as a big infodump (usually in murder mysteries from the POV of the killer).

My problem with this is feeling a bit like 'well, if the author had just included a chapter from his POV earlier, I would have understood and now I feel like they've been tricking me'. Withholding non-POV secrets from the reader is no problem for me as long as the author sticks to their own self-imposed rule and doesn't go back on it when the plot demands more information.

And the issue with having your character revealing everything to just the reader before he commits suicide is that it might come across as a bit of an anti-climax - I want secret reveals to be huge and to learn the news at the same time as the other characters. With them trying to talk him down from a window ledge or something dramatic. Or suddenly learning of his suicide and having to put all the pieces together to understand why.

Basically, you can make this work if it's honestly what the story demands. But you're going to have to be really careful.

Chrissy · Jan 28, 2013

Wow, you guys give such great advice, thank you!!

I'm getting the feeling that yes, this might be another one of "those times" where I have to kill it. Though it's not technically an huge info dump--as in what, who, where--it's definitely a big "why" thing. I shuddered when two of you mentioned "murder stories, adding the killer's perspective." RATS!

Thanks again, all.

I

AW.

WyattEarp · Jan 28, 2013

Zombie Kat said:
Are you sure, sure, sure his POV is the only way to tell this story? Because with some of the times I've seen this done, it has kind of felt like the author was using the alternative POV chapter as a big infodump (usually in murder mysteries from the POV of the killer).

My problem with this is feeling a bit like 'well, if the author had just included a chapter from his POV earlier, I would have understood and now I feel like they've been tricking me'. Withholding non-POV secrets from the reader is no problem for me as long as the author sticks to their own self-imposed rule and doesn't go back on it when the plot demands more information.

And the issue with having your character revealing everything to just the reader before he commits suicide is that it might come across as a bit of an anti-climax - I want secret reveals to be huge and to learn the news at the same time as the other characters. With them trying to talk him down from a window ledge or something dramatic. Or suddenly learning of his suicide and having to put all the pieces together to understand why.

Basically, you can make this work if it's honestly what the story demands. But you're going to have to be really careful.

I agree, that it can be done...but you really have to decide if it has to. Zombie Kat has some great advice. Find some other way(s) to reveal what you want the reader to know in the end. I have to think, if I read it I would think, "Well, if you could just do that...why didn't you just tell me all this in the first place?"

blacbird · Jan 28, 2013

It's not as big a problem as introducing 14 POVs in the first 14 pages, but it does present a challenge. Which isn't to say it can't be done, and done effectively.

caw

Bertram Fox · Jan 30, 2013

The example that comes to mind is RAH's "Podkayne of Mars." Almost the whole story is told from the title character's 1st person POV. Then in the last chapter it switches to the voice of her annoying young genius brother, so he can tell the reader that Podkayne is dead, having gone back to a burning building to save a cute furry animal. Apart from this kick in the teeth, the change of POV also allows us to learn that he's grown up hard as a result.

So, yes, it can be done, but it's enough of a jolt for the reader that there better be a good reason, and not just that you can't get the information out any other way. (Which, BTW, is why I tend to avoid 1st person unless the story has a very limited cast; it's too awkward getting out info about other characters.)

Teinz · Jan 30, 2013

Chrissy said:
Thanks, Will. My book is alternating chapters of 2 first person POVs. I've been told that this is working fine. Their voices are very different, plus I have chapter headers with their names. It's the 3rd POV comes in on page 253 that's "odd." The why is because there really isn't anyone else who can tell his story. He has a secret, and has basically been unable to communicate throughout the book. And he's been seemingly a minor character. A nuisance to one of my main POVs. But his story is important. The only other way I can think to "get it out him" is to have him engage in a dialogue with one of my 2 POVs, where he "confesses" or whatever. Right now, I've got it as him narrating, where he is basically all by himself, reviewing his life and about to commit suicide.

To me, this sounds like the Rule of Three. There are two opposing points of view, each encircling the central secret, each unable to penetrate the final truth. Only the third perspective is privy to this knowledge, only it can choose to disclose it.

I say go for it.

JulianneQJohnson · Jan 30, 2013

WillSauger said:
Generally, I don't like POV changes in 1st person. I've always seen it done badly for first.
Though, I write multiple third with many, many POVs, and I try to make it work.

I have to agree. I’m not saying it cannot be done, if it’s done well. I’m not a fan of first person that switches POV. My novel, Ghost in the Park, is first person, and it’s the same POV all the way through. Same thing with Dean Koontz’ Odd Thomas series. It’s Odd’s POV through the whole series.

It’s your baby, and you have to make the decisions for it, but I have to ask, if you wish to switch POV multiple times, why is it in first person?

Question: Introducing a new POV late in the story

Chrissy

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