The New Never-Ending PublishAmerica Thread (NEPAT)

[Sassenach]

Originally Posted by PVish

Are libraries really likely to order an obscure book that only one patron requests? Especially when the patron comes in every day and requests a different obscure book each time?

Of course not. But it seems like a good idea on Planet PA.

[zizban]

Originally Posted by PVish

At http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=19437 there is discussion about requesting ach other's PA books at libraries so that the libraries will buy the books.



Don't most libraries (at least the school ones) order by purchase order? How does PA deal with purchase orders? Doesn't PA want the money up front?

Are libraries really likely to order an obscure book that only one patron requests? Especially when the patron comes in every day and requests a different obscure book each time?

No.

[Rolling Thunder]

Originally Posted by PVish

At http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=19437 there is discussion about requesting ach other's PA books at libraries so that the libraries will buy the books.



Don't most libraries (at least the school ones) order by purchase order? How does PA deal with purchase orders? Doesn't PA want the money up front?

Are libraries really likely to order an obscure book that only one patron requests? Especially when the patron comes in every day and requests a different obscure book each time?

This question interested me for one reason. When I go to my local library there is a section on the second floor where they have shelves of books for sale. Good books, like Grisham....for $1.00. It seems they have plenty of donated books and sell the extras for a little cash to help the library.

I bet this is where all those free PA books end up, eventually. I could be wrong but with limited shelf space I'll bet any title that doesn't get checked out through the computer often enough ends up on those shelves.

[rihannsu]

Originally Posted by CatSlave

http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=19453
4. I have not found a bookstore yet, including Square Books in Oxford, Mississippi, that will stock books they have to buy from PA.
Yet they have thousands of books for sale including books from numerous publishers in New York and many other places. Something about profit index.

Oxford is my home town and I'm very familiar with Square Books. They go out of their way to promote local authors (as well as quite a few well known ones).

They'd be more than happy to carry a book from a local author-
as long as it's from a reputable publisher.

[JimmyD1318]

Wal Mart.com has picked up a few of our books, and has carried mine for a few months since before its release in December. I am working on the local wal-marts, but haven't had luck as of yet.

I get the feeling that you are trying to rush things a bit. I have noticed that things in an authors life move none too fast. I understand your frustration, but please know that any new author, whether from PA or Harper Collins will no doubt run into these same stumbling blocks somewhere along the way.

My advice is to take a break, and a deep breath, and work on some things that are working out for you and save the negatives to fight another time.

I wish you well, it is all not so bad.

This is the answer she has gotten from one PA writer. Sorry, but I doubt that if her book had come out from Harper Collins that she would have these stumbling blocks. Because she wouldn't have to go to the bookstore to beg them to put her book on the shelf!

(sigh).......Sometimes this stuff makes me want to scream!

[James D. Macdonald]

Wal Mart.com has picked up a few of our books, and has carried mine for a few months since before its release in December.

That's WalMart.com, not Wal*Mart. All that means is that the book has an ISBN.

I am working on the local wal-marts, but haven't had luck as of yet.

Don't sweat it. Neither has any other PA author.

I understand your frustration, but please know that any new author, whether from PA or Harper Collins will no doubt run into these same stumbling blocks somewhere along the way.

I can say, of my own direct knowlege, that HarperCollins authors don't have the same problems getting their books on the shelves in bookstores. HarperCollins authors don't need to worry about getting books on the shelves -- that's HarperCollins' sales reps' problem.

My advice is to take a break, and a deep breath, and work on some things that are working out for you and save the negatives to fight another time.

That's my advice too: Stop promoting your PA book. Nothing you do will help. The time you spend is time you'll never get back. Use your energy to write a new, different, better book and sell it to a real publisher. I promise you, your worst day with a commercial publisher will be better than your best day with PA.

[zizban]

I can say, of my own direct knowlege, that HarperCollins authors don't have the same problems getting their books on the shelves in bookstores. HarperCollins authors don't need to worry about getting books on the shelves -- that's HarperCollins' sales reps' problem.

For instance, I saw Uncle Jim's new book in my local Barnes and Noble and it appeared without any effort from Uncle Jim!

[BenPanced]

Originally Posted by Rllgthunder

This question interested me for one reason. When I go to my local library there is a section on the second floor where they have shelves of books for sale. Good books, like Grisham....for $1.00. It seems they have plenty of donated books and sell the extras for a little cash to help the library.

I bet this is where all those free PA books end up, eventually. I could be wrong but with limited shelf space I'll bet any title that doesn't get checked out through the computer often enough ends up on those shelves.

Bingo. Having worked at a library, donated books usually wind up in the sales. It generally doesn't matter if it's Grisham or Local New Author Joe Schmoe who's just cranked something out on the mimeo in his mom's basement. If something doesn't circulate enough to warrant the expense of buying it and keeping it, it's in the sale. If there already too many copies of a title on the shelves and out on the streets, it's in the sale.

And libraries generally won't respond to readers calling up and demanding they carry a book. If it's not mentioned in Publisher's Weekly or other trade journal, it won't matter how many people call the front desk and ask for a title.

PVish Don't most libraries (at least the school ones) order by purchase order? How does PA deal with purchase orders? Doesn't PA want the money up front?

Are libraries really likely to order an obscure book that only one patron requests? Especially when the patron comes in every day and requests a different obscure book each time?

It's not in the budget, especially if they have to sell extra copies of books they can't keep in the collection or donated books that have no chance of ever circulating.

As Uncle Jim mentioned in another thread, if a bookstore can't stock everything due to space limitations, how can a library?

[James D. Macdonald]

If a patron called asking for a particular title that the library doesn't have in its own collection, they'll most likely suggest Interlibrary Loan rather than buying it.

Which is a good deal, and allows me, living in a small town, to have access to pretty much any book I want.

[Sparhawk]

Originally Posted by CatSlave

http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=19453

The corrected edition of my novel arrived in late December of 2006. Since that time I have spent 12 hours per day promoting my book in all kinds of ways. Here is what I have discovered:
1. Books A Million will not stock any PA books on their shelves.
2. Target will not stock any PA books.
3. Wal-Mart will not stock PA books. (At least this appears to be the case.)
4. I have not found a bookstore yet, including Square Books in Oxford, Mississippi, that will stock books they have to buy from PA.
Yet they have thousands of books for sale including books from numerous publishers in New York and many other places. Something about profit index.
5. The only way I have gotten books in bookstores is to give them books on consignment.
I am securing newspaper reviews (8 so far) but have to give books to drugstores to make available to the public in the towns where the reviews are located.
I know this sounds negative, but my actual experience doesn't fit too well with the PA advertising. Maybe I'm overlooking something. Certainly, I'm appreciative for what PA has done for me. But I'm so eager to make money for them that I'm running up against walls. I know this doesn't sound modest, but the truth is that the people who have read my novel rave about it, pass it along to others, and state that it is one of the best they have read. They even call the newspapers to demand that they make an annoucement or give a review.
Thanks ahead of time to anyone who can give me some advice.

Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 5:44 pm Post subject: Questions! Please help!

Man, that's just heart breaking. Looks lke the 'Honeymoon" phase won't last all that long with this particular PA Author. It's really painful to see so many people led down the wrong road all the while being encouraged by other like minded, misguided souls.

[VGrossack]

Originally Posted by rihannsu

Oxford is my home town and I'm very familiar with Square Books. They go out of their way to promote local authors (as well as quite a few well known ones).

I did an interview with Lyn Roberts of Square Books a few months ago - you can see it here:

http://www.coffeehouseforwriters.com...Grossack1.html

You can see that they're not keen on POD books.

Victoria
www.tapestryofbronze.com

[Tsu Dho Nimh]

Originally Posted by VGrossack

I did an interview with Lyn Roberts of Square Books a few months ago - you can see it here:

http://www.coffeehouseforwriters.com...Grossack1.html

You can see that they're not keen on POD books.

Victoria
www.tapestryofbronze.com

If the writer wants the bookseller to stock their book they should be prepared with details like ISBN, trade discount, vendors, etc.

No discount, not returnes = no deal!

[Tina]

Originally Posted by zizban

For instance, I saw Uncle Jim's new book in my local Barnes and Noble and it appeared without any effort from Uncle Jim!

You mean he didn't fork over his own money, drive across the country, pay for his own gas (while peddling a book to the station attendant) and living expenses, attempt to convince bookstore managers that his publisher really is "traditional" and hold book signings in convenience stores, car dealerships, banks and detox centres? Astonishing.

[Old Hack]

I'm betting he didn't have to make his own bookmarks, either....

[Scribhneoir]

Originally Posted by James D. Macdonald

If a patron called asking for a particular title that the library doesn't have in its own collection, they'll most likely suggest Interlibrary Loan rather than buying it.

Which is a good deal, and allows me, living in a small town, to have access to pretty much any book I want.

Back in September I requested a book through Interlibrary Loan. I didn't hear back from my library regarding this request, which surprised me because usually if they're having trouble getting the book I want, they give me a call to find out if I want them to continue to pursue it. WorldCat showed that the book I wanted was only in one or two libraries in the country, so I figured that was the reason for the delay, or possibly my request had been lost.

A couple weeks ago I was in the library and decided to request it again. Turns out the library had bought a copy, was in the process of cataloging it and already had a hold placed on it for me. A week later I got an e-mail saying it was ready to be picked up. Did they buy this book just because I wanted it? Looks like it. Did I ask them to? No.

I love my library.

[VGrossack]

To determine whether or not a book is being carried by libraries, check out this link:

http://worldcatlibraries.org/

Amazingly, Iokaste, despite being a PA title (and now "out-of-print", thanks to the cancellation of the contract) made it into at least 10 libraries around the world.

Victoria
www.tapestryofbronze.com

[Christine N.]

Here are some "facts" from the PA website...

FACT #5: PublishAmerica is NOT in any way a POD, vanity press, or subsidy publisher, and has nothing in common with them. Obviously, our authors are also not being self-published. In the most commonly used context, POD indicates "Publish On Demand", or vanity publishing. Vanity publishers charge for their "services". Some charge a few hundred dollars, others a thousand or more. We are not in that league, in any way, shape or fashion.

Uh, no, that's false. POD means "publish/print on demand", which IN FACT, PA is, in every sense of the word. Many vanity publishers do print runs for a client - which, of course, the person pays for when they buy their package. So comparing POD, as a technology, to a vanity press, is false. PA IS in fact, a POD press, printing copies of books AS THEY ARE ORDERED, or... ON DEMAND. Get it?

FACT #6: PublishAmerica is a traditional, royalty paying publisher. We are strongly opposed to charging fees, ever. There's no catch, no hidden surprises. We even pay small advances to indicate our principle. The author is never, ever, under any obligation to pull their wallet to make any purchase whatsoever. We don't want their money. We want their book. All expenses involved with acquiring, producing, manufacturing, and publishing a book, and marketing it to the industry's wholesale and distribution channels for full availability through all bookstores at home and abroad are underwritten by PublishAmerica solely. This is one of our main claims to fame, and one that we are very proud of. All authors are treated equally here.

True, they don't charge fees. They only make it so difficult, because of their non-standard discount to booksellers, difficulty in obtaining books and some non-returnability issues, along with the well-known knowledge that their 'low acceptance barriers' cause a basic non-vetting of books, thereby a lack of quality, to get into bookstores, that the poor author has no choice BUT to buy their own books.

Oh, and that "one-time, get it now" offer with a big discount on books to the author when they're released, that's not pressure to purchase? Clue time, PA - most publishers don't have 'sales' on book to their own authors, and if authors do choose to purchase copies, most contracts state they CANNOT resell them.

FACT #7: The only area where the acronym POD comes in sight, is the printing stage of a book. Among printers, POD means print-on-demand, a digital technology that enables the printer to manufacture a book one at a time. This is in contrast with the offset technology that, by definition, must produce at least hundreds of copies of a book at a time at a minimum, but preferably thousands, to justify the expense of running the press.

That's true. But you can use a digital printer and do print runs. There's no law that says using a digital printer means you have to print one copy at a time. The per unit cost is higher, but you can do it. Unlike PA, who does one copy at a time, as ordered, a fact that EVERY bookstore chain says they will NOT consider for nationwide stocking (oh, but they're AVAILABLE in every bookstore. If you order it. If the store chooses to let you order it, which they might not. Then they might cancel the order - we've seen that happen.)

FACT #8: ALL publishers use digital (Print-On-Demand) technology for printing, from all major publishing houses such as Random House down. In fact, Random House is a major producer of digitally printed books. They also use additional printing technologies, including offset. PublishAmerica uses the offset technology occasionally as well, each time a larger run is necessary.

Eh? Since when? I can see if RH is doing a small amount of ARC's, they might use digital printing, but I don't know that for a fact. Who cares what they use to print the books? It's what happens after that that's really important, like, they go to bookstore buyers and get a big order of books.

FACT #9: Does the use of the digital on-demand printing technology make a publisher a POD house? No, it does not. Of course not. According to www.acronymfinder.com, there are 57 different meanings for POD, from Post Office Department to Point Of Departure to Proof Of Delivery. In our world, POD is vanity publishing, and PublishAmerica is no vanity publisher, by any stretch of the imagination.

And in everyone else's world, POD means print-on-demand, which you are, in spades. No, not a "traditional" vanity publisher, PA. We've come up with whole new term, just for you - Author Mill.

FACT #10: As for the production time of our books, we put the author in full control. If an author wants us to release his or her book fast, we can do that. Authors who feel that their manuscript is already edited to perfection may opt to have no additional editing done, provided that we agree. Depending on how fast they submit all necessary information and materials, they may see their book go to the printer within as little as 6 weeks. If time is of no primary concern, or if we decide that additional editing is required, we assign an editor who will spend time going through the text. We don't touch style issues, we don't edit the author's voice, tone, or delivery. We edit for spelling, mechanics, grammar, and typos. In all situations, before it goes to print we send a book back to the author at least twice, to ensure that it looks exactly as the author wants it to look.

Clue: All authors need editing. All of them. And for more than just spelling, mechanics, grammar and typos. Aren't typos spelling errors? Anyhow, any author is going to tell you that 9 times out of 10, their editor's suggestions make their books better. So, what does that say about PA?
Not only the fact that we've seen time and again the fact that despite the author's best efforts, PA adds errors and prints the books that way.

There you have it - "facts" about PA

Here's another couple - Fact: a PA book is not considered a publishing credit by anyone in the indsustry. A PA book will not get you into Author's Guild, nor impress any reputable agent or publisher. Fact: PA have a cover price dollars above similar length books from other publishers. Fact: PA books have a non-standard discount, which won't make any bookseller a profit, so bookstores are hesitant to even stock PA books on a store by store basis. Fact: PA does not submit a marketing plan, media kit or copies of any of its books to bookstore chain buyers, because they have no intention of every having a book picked up for nationwide stocking, because they KNOW their 'lower acceptance barriers' prohibit putting out consistent quality books.

Fact: if you want to have a career as a writer, stay away from PA. If you just want to publish a book and go through the motions and play the Published Author Role-Playing Game, have at it. If you're truly happy, so am I. But be prepared to spend a lot of your own time and money.

[Christine N.]

Oh, and there's this, from the top of the "About Us" page.

A Unique and Traditional Publishing Company

Um, aren't those two terms completely contradictory?

[ByGrace]

I don't post here anymore, but I had to mention a few things.

http://worldcatlibraries.org/

The library website does not give an accurate listing on my books. They do list them in the Enoch Pratt State Library in Baltimore. However, my books are in all the Maryland County libraries. The C. Burr Artz Library in Frederick, not only placed several copies of my novels on the shelves, but they archived them in 'The Maryland Room' to be preserved historically. They were a tremendous support for me. I had six signings there in all, and was invited to meet with their book clubs at different branches.

All this was accomplished by my own efforts of making contacts with librarians. The plus was my novels were set in Maryland, and the last two books were set in Frederick and based on actual historical events. So people were drawn to them. I hit my target audience at least locally.PA did none of this, nor did they care. Once I began to make a name for myself around Frederick, and people began ordering books, and local groups wanted me to speak, and two wanted help with fundraisers, PA dropped me.

The bottom line is PA will do nothing to promote, market, or help an author. All they will do is print the book and take your money. They are not interested in a writer's success. And if you do begin to make some signs of success, they will cancel your contract.

[Sparhawk]

Originally Posted by Christine N.

Here are some "facts" from the PA website...



Uh, no, that's false. POD means "publish/print on demand", which IN FACT, PA is, in every sense of the word. Many vanity publishers do print runs for a client - which, of course, the person pays for when they buy their package. So comparing POD, as a technology, to a vanity press, is false. PA IS in fact, a POD press, printing copies of books AS THEY ARE ORDERED, or... ON DEMAND. Get it?



True, they don't charge fees. They only make it so difficult, because of their non-standard discount to booksellers, difficulty in obtaining books and some non-returnability issues, along with the well-known knowledge that their 'low acceptance barriers' cause a basic non-vetting of books, thereby a lack of quality, to get into bookstores, that the poor author has no choice BUT to buy their own books.

Oh, and that "one-time, get it now" offer with a big discount on books to the author when they're released, that's not pressure to purchase? Clue time, PA - most publishers don't have 'sales' on book to their own authors, and if authors do choose to purchase copies, most contracts state they CANNOT resell them.




That's true. But you can use a digital printer and do print runs. There's no law that says using a digital printer means you have to print one copy at a time. The per unit cost is higher, but you can do it. Unlike PA, who does one copy at a time, as ordered, a fact that EVERY bookstore chain says they will NOT consider for nationwide stocking (oh, but they're AVAILABLE in every bookstore. If you order it. If the store chooses to let you order it, which they might not. Then they might cancel the order - we've seen that happen.)



Eh? Since when? I can see if RH is doing a small amount of ARC's, they might use digital printing, but I don't know that for a fact. Who cares what they use to print the books? It's what happens after that that's really important, like, they go to bookstore buyers and get a big order of books.




And in everyone else's world, POD means print-on-demand, which you are, in spades. No, not a "traditional" vanity publisher, PA. We've come up with whole new term, just for you - Author Mill.



Clue: All authors need editing. All of them. And for more than just spelling, mechanics, grammar and typos. Aren't typos spelling errors? Anyhow, any author is going to tell you that 9 times out of 10, their editor's suggestions make their books better. So, what does that say about PA?
Not only the fact that we've seen time and again the fact that despite the author's best efforts, PA adds errors and prints the books that way.

There you have it - "facts" about PA

Here's another couple - Fact: a PA book is not considered a publishing credit by anyone in the indsustry. A PA book will not get you into Author's Guild, nor impress any reputable agent or publisher. Fact: PA have a cover price dollars above similar length books from other publishers. Fact: PA books have a non-standard discount, which won't make any bookseller a profit, so bookstores are hesitant to even stock PA books on a store by store basis. Fact: PA does not submit a marketing plan, media kit or copies of any of its books to bookstore chain buyers, because they have no intention of every having a book picked up for nationwide stocking, because they KNOW their 'lower acceptance barriers' prohibit putting out consistent quality books.

Fact: if you want to have a career as a writer, stay away from PA. If you just want to publish a book and go through the motions and play the Published Author Role-Playing Game, have at it. If you're truly happy, so am I. But be prepared to spend a lot of your own time and money.

I think you just gave Vic Cretella and the gang at PA bad case if gas with this post Christine. Accurate and lethal. TWO THUMBS UP !!!

[Christine N.]

Damn, I shoulda been a lawyer, eh?

[Christine N.]

Ooo, I wanna go back to this one..

FACT #10: As for the production time of our books, we put the author in full control. If an author wants us to release his or her book fast, we can do that. Authors who feel that their manuscript is already edited to perfection may opt to have no additional editing done, provided that we agree. Depending on how fast they submit all necessary information and materials, they may see their book go to the printer within as little as 6 weeks. If time is of no primary concern, or if we decide that additional editing is required, we assign an editor who will spend time going through the text. We don't touch style issues, we don't edit the author's voice, tone, or delivery. We edit for spelling, mechanics, grammar, and typos. In all situations, before it goes to print we send a book back to the author at least twice, to ensure that it looks exactly as the author wants it to look.

So, you don't have anything in common with vanity publishers, eh? No commercial publisher I know of allows authors to choose 'options' of how they want to be published, like you order from the menu at McD's. They carefully craft and hone each title they produce. It doesn't mean changing the author's voice - I've never heard an author ever complain that they took their book and ripped it to shreds. If they had to do that, they wouldn't have accepted it!

Only one kind of publisher allows this kind of 'choice'... can you guess what it is? So that statment in itself proves that PA does, in fact, have something in common with a vanity press!

[tlblack]

Perhaps this link will provide some information for any of the PA people who read here. Anyone who looks at the main PA page can find it if they only click on "National News for PublishAmerica" (middle of the page in red) then at the bottom of the page it leads to, "click here for the AP story"

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05022/446283.stm

This article was written in Jan. 2005 but it is the first time I have seen it. There may be others who would be interested in reading it.

[ResearchGuy]

Originally Posted by VGrossack

To determine whether or not a book is being carried by libraries, check out this link:

http://worldcatlibraries.org/...

Oh! Oh! Even the 16-page illustrated political satire I wrote under a pen name (Herbert T. Brewer) and "published" on the Web is there! (The library that has it printed and bound a copy because staff thought it was hysterical.)

Way cool. Good as Googling myself.

--Ken

[ResearchGuy]

Originally Posted by BenPanced

...If it's not mentioned in Publisher's Weekly or other trade journal, it won't matter how many people call the front desk and ask for a title....

That is not necessarily so. For example, a slender (but droll and amusing) little book of essays, published by iUniverse, titled Chatter to Flatter your Platter, has been bought for several branches of the library system in Sacramento County (reflected in WorldCat), and reportedly has been ordered by branches of neighboring Placer County's library system (not yet in WorldCat). That was probably the result of local newspaper articles about the author and his book, and perhaps some subsequent requests by library patrons. No trade journal ever heard of it. And as noted a moment ago, even my unpublished little pseudonymous satire made it into the California State Library -- entirely at the staff's own initiative. Libraries are not slaves to PW et al., especially for matters of local interest.

Having said that . . . I am working my butt off to get serious trade journal and other reviews for the masterpiece I helped to divert from PA in the nick of time. Nearly two years of work have gone into that. One high-visibility (for school libraries, at least) review appears to be assured at this point. But that has taken an enormous commitment of time and effort on my part, as the publisher does not have deep pockets or fortunate connections (other than myself) for that sort of thing -- and the work is far from over.

--Ken