The New Never-Ending PublishAmerica Thread (NEPAT)

[Nexusman]

Originally Posted by DaveKuzminski

In that case, it's time for a sequel. Then submit it for award consideration.

I want to write a chapter.

-Nick

[CatSlave]

Originally Posted by burgy61

I have just signed with PA and am having second thoughts about it. I will check with bookstores in my area to see if they will carry PA books. Is it possible to get out of the contract before I send in my ms? I wish I had done a little more research first.

Do not send in your ms. There are people on this forum who can advise you how to refuse the contract if that's your decision. Hang in there; people will respond when they see your message.

And welcome to AW.

[Saundra Julian]

Welcome to AW, Michael! I agree with Cat...don't send your m/s. Write and tell them you'll have a problem with lawsuits if they print the book. Family members are like that, ya know!

[Jersey Chick]

Hi Michael!

Listen to Cat! And to AW!

[ResearchGuy]

Originally Posted by burgy61

I have just signed with PA and am having second thoughts about it. I will check with bookstores in my area to see if they will carry PA books. Is it possible to get out of the contract before I send in my ms? I wish I had done a little more research first.

Wait a minute . . . they offered contract WITHOUT HAVING SEEN A MANUSCRIPT? (Not the first time I have heard of that. In one case, the author was actually incapable of writing two consecutive sentences that did not require major editing.) So . . . since they have not seen it . . . they do not know what "it" is. You should be able to construct a place-holder to send them IF they insist after you say you have changed your mind. Something so hideous that even PA won't publish it. Perhaps some piece of public domain text, scrambled and jumbled. Or in Latin. Or both.

Good luck.

BTW, as for "I wish I had done a little more research first." There is a lot of that going around. I could tell you stories.

--Ken

[CatSlave]

They may have offered a contract based on a partial submission...anything to get a signed contract in hand.
Whatever he does, he should insist that any submission he made be destroyed, with an acknowledgment in writing from PA that they no longer have his manuscript on file.

[triceretops]

Ken, they didn't offer a contract--he SIGNED it. Burg, did you send the signed contract in? Was it signed on a partial? This is strange, or they are really hurting for enlistees.

Tri

[James D. Macdonald]

How much of your book do they have?

[ResearchGuy]

Originally Posted by triceretops

Ken, they didn't offer a contract--he SIGNED it. . . .

Yes, Tri, I got that. That was not my point.

My point was, they do not know what the contract is FOR. Not if they have not seen the manuscript. Title, maybe outline, summary, whatever. But not the manuscript. Hence, they have no way of knowing that a submitted manuscript is actually what he had in mind. And no way of disproving it. Anyway, if he never submits a manuscript, all PA can do is what any real publisher could do in the event that the author does not fulfill the terms of the advance: demand their dollar back.

Ok?

--Ken

[DaveKuzminski]

Originally Posted by ResearchGuy

Anyway, if he never submits a manuscript, all PA can do is what any real publisher could do in the event that the author does not fulfill the terms of the advance: demand their dollar back.

And if he's smart, he'll send the dollar back in check form so they'll leave a paper trail.

[triceretops]

Sorry, Ken. I understand what you're saying. I think he just confirmed part of the mystery.

A question for all ex-PAers or current PAers. Does or has PA sent contracts for partials before? If they do (or did) I was unaware of this.

Wait...this could be a non-fic project, where that IS possible. I'll check you out, Burgy.

Tri

[CatSlave]

Originally Posted by burgy61

They offered me a contract on four chapters and a outline. I want to have people take my writing seriously thats why I wanted a traditional publisher. I think I have a great story but am worried about my writing so when I got the offer I got a little over excited. I have a myspace site could some of you real writers take a look and tell me what you think about my idea. Thanks for all of your help and advice.

www.myspace.com/burgywrites
not sure how to make it a link sorry

I'm a reader, not a writer, but I found the premise of your story intriguing. I wish you success in having it published.

[CatSlave]

Originally Posted by burgy61

...could some of you real writers take a look and tell me what you think about my idea. Thanks for all of your help and advice.

www.myspace.com/burgywrites
not sure how to make it a link sorry

A person who writes a book is a real writer, including you.

[triceretops]

Okay, it looks like a fiction project. Sounds interesting, Burgy. I liked the idea so well myself, I wrote Word Wars, my vision of an isolist United Western Enterprise against the oil-greedy Eastern Allegance.

If in fact PA is offering contracts on fiction partials for the first time, it's got to be a new low for them. I mean, Another low.

Tri

[CatSlave]

They will offer contracts on three chapters and an outline.

[burgy61]

Originally Posted by CatSlave

A person who writes a book is a real writer, including you.

Thank you Cat

[James D. Macdonald]

This is not the first time PA has offered a contract to a first-timer based on a partial.

What can I say, burgy? Finish your book, revise it, rewrite it as many times as it takes, then try to find a legitimate publisher. Then write another book. And another.

Ideas are great -- but they aren't novels. Only the book itself is a novel. See Watt-Evans' Law.

# Watt-Evans' Law of Literary Creation: There is no idea so stupid or hackneyed that a sufficiently-talented writer can't get a good story out of it.

# Feist's Corollary: There is no idea so brilliant or original that a sufficiently-untalented writer can't screw it up. (Raymond Feist came up with this one in response to my ''Law of Literary Creation.'')

I wouldn't suggest trying to sell the book until it's finished and polished. Then I'd suggest starting at the top and working down.

Please join us up in the Novels area for more on how the usual process works.

Another suggestion: quit work on this novel and write another. Leave this one on ice until after PublishAmerica goes out of business. A contract with PA will be a complicating factor if you try to sell this work to another publisher.

One thing is certain: actually publishing your book with PA is a very bad idea.

[Jersey Chick]

Hi Michael -

Don't beat yourself up - you're every bit as much a writer as the rest of us. You've come to the right (write? ha ha) place because there is so much here beyond just the PA threads. Poke around and you'll see!

[brianm]

Welcome to the cooler, Michael.

If you have already signed the contract, which I am assuming you have since I saw your post on the PAMB, you can do the following to cancel the contract.

Make a copy of the signature page of the contract. Cross through your signature and write, "Cancelled this (day) of July, 2007." Sign next to that.

Write cancelled across the page in big letters.

Send them an email advising you have changed your mind and that you will not be completing the manuscript at this time or anytime in the foreseeable future. Ask them to destroy the chapters and outline. Advise you are sending a check in the amount of $1.00, which represents the advance amount they sent you.

Put the check, the crossed through signature page, and a copy of your email in an envelope and mail it to them certified mail. No need to request a signature upon delivery, as you can check online to see when it was delivered to PA.

I'm glad you found AW and that you raised the question.
Again, welcome and good luck with this book.

Brianm

[brianm]

Michael,

You're welcome. You've come to the right place to get help. You'll find AW members to be a very giving lot.

Brianm

[Marie Pacha]

Hold on everyone, please. In spite of everyone's desire to see Burgy released from his contract if that is his wish; he signed a legal document, and is bound by the terms of that agreement.

If he wants to break it, he has do so in accordance with the terms of the contract. I'm no expert on contract law, and I am not an attorney to begin with, but I am pretty familiar with my own PA contracts.

According to my contracts; in order to cancel or terminate my contracts both PA and I would need to approve that cancellation in writing. If his contract reads the same way he needs to write them; by email should be okay as long as he keeps a copy. And then he needs to wait for their response.

If they agree to cancellation great. If not, if I were him I would have my contract reviewed by an attorney and get their opinion of how to proceed. That arbitration clause works BOTH ways, and PA could possibly take him to arbitration for non-compliance/breach.

And I'd be really reluctant to send back the original copy of the contract.

Those are just my opinions on the matter.

Marie

[brianm]

Originally Posted by Marie Pacha

Hold on everyone, please. In spite of everyone's desire to see Burgy released from his contract if that is his wish; he signed a legal document, and is bound by the terms of that agreement.

If he wants to break it, he has do so in accordance with the terms of the contract. I'm no expert on contract law, and I am not an attorney to begin with, but I am pretty familiar with my own PA contracts.

According to my contracts; in order to cancel or terminate my contracts both PA and I would need to approve that cancellation in writing. If his contract reads the same way he needs to write them; by email should be okay as long as he keeps a copy. And then he needs to wait for their response.

If they agree to cancellation great. If not, if I were him I would have my contract reviewed by an attorney and get their opinion of how to proceed. That arbitration clause works BOTH ways, and PA could possibly take him to arbitration for non-compliance/breach.

And I'd be really reluctant to send back the original copy of the contract.

Those are just my opinions on the matter.

Marie

Marie,

I handled real and personal property purchase/closing contracts for over 20 years. I am not an attorney, I'm a retired senior certified escrow officer.

That said, for a contract to exist there must be consideration. PA's consideration is a completed manuscript. Michael's consideration is one dollar. Michael is canceling the contract and returning his consideration. Without the manuscript, there is no consideration for PA. Yes, they could take him to arbitration to force him to complete the manuscript and abide by its terms. However, the chances of that happening are negligible. Were he a famous author, it could be well worth forcing him to abide by the terms. However, he is not. It would cost PA to take him to arbitration, and even their in house counsel knows the arbitrator would look sideways at them for bringing a situation such as this before him. No one is going to go to arbitration to force him to finish the manuscript and submit it to PA.

Pure and simple, he has changed his mind and is advising PA he's canceling the contract and returning his consideration. More than likely, he will get an email from PA explaining the "virtues" of PA and asking him to reconsider publishing with PA. If he hears nothing from PA, he should follow through with an additional email asking if they have destroyed his chapters and synopsis. No response from PA does not bode well for them. However, he does need to hear from PA because it is a binding contract until PA responds.


Contracts are cancelled every day. One party can’t unilaterally cancel them, unless language to that effect exists in the contract. In this case no one has been damaged and there is no reason for PA to not cancel the contract. PA hasn't printed the book, etc. It's the beginning stages of the contract and he is returning his consideration. The mind blowing one dollar.


Completely different story than your situation where your book has been in publication for a number of years AND PA has refused to cancel the contract.


Now, if PA emails him that they refuse to cancel the contract, that's a different story. However, I doubt that will happen. Although, one never knows when it comes to PA.

If PA did go that route, I would hope the arbitrator would come down heavy on PA and award Michael a rather nice settlement, and allow the findings to become public. Oh, happy day that would be.

[LloydBrown]

Of course, he could also write a page of crap, copy it 200 times and submit it. They'd accept that as his "book". Even if they didn't do it out of stupidity, they'd be obligated by the contract. This doesn't violate any part of the contract.

[Marie Pacha]

"Pure and simple, he has changed his mind and is advising PA he's canceling the contract and returning his consideration. More than likely, he will get an email from PA explaining the "virtues" of PA and asking him to reconsider publishing with PA. If he hears nothing from PA, he should follow through with an additional email asking if they have destroyed his chapters and synopsis. No response from PA does not bode well for them. However, he does need to hear from PA because it is a binding contract until PA responds.


Contracts are cancelled every day. One party can’t unilaterally cancel them, unless language to that effect exists in the contract. In this case no one has been damaged and there is no reason for PA to not cancel the contract. PA hasn't printed the book, etc. It's the beginning stages of the contract and he is returning his consideration. The mind blowing one dollar.

Completely different story than your situation where your book has been in publication for a number of years AND PA has refused to cancel the contract.


Now, if PA emails him that they refuse to cancel the contract, that's a different story. However, I doubt that will happen. Although, one never knows when it comes to PA."

Logically the scenario you propose should be what occurs, but how many authors have stated that PA has refused to cancel their contract? But I think you and I agree that he needs to contact PA first with his request if that is his decision. Contracts CAN be cancelled, but there is a procedure that must be followed.

For the record I did not request cancellation of my contract. When the questions arose over royalty statements and lack of payment communications took what appears to be the usual route with PA. I knew I would get the rights back to my books eventually. I filed for arbitration based on what I believe are serious breaches of my contract, and for damages. This also allows me to request that my contracts be rescinded; in other words, it will be as if they never existed.

[ResearchGuy]

Originally Posted by burgy61

. . . that's why I wanted a traditional publisher. . . .

"Traditional publisher" is PublishAmerica's own phrase to disguise that it is a vanity press. It is meaningless, but it has wondrously confused the dialogue. (One of these days I will have to write an article explaining why the phrase is simultaneously meaningless and deceptive.)

In any event, what you want is a publisher that targets its books to the book trade and to readers, not to the books' own authors. Typically those publishers do not need to qualify the term "publisher" with an adjective. They are simply "publishers" (or perhaps "book publishers," to distinguish tnemselves from newspaper publishers, magazine publishers, directory publishers, and the like). The word "traditional" in front of "publisher" is a red flag, a warning sign of deliberate deception.

--Ken