The New Never-Ending PublishAmerica Thread (NEPAT)

[malberque@comcast.ne]

Originally Posted by endless rewrite

brianm is a perfect gentleman on here, always has been, always will be. He also knows what he's talking about. I respect that.

You're absolutely correct.

[smsarber]

Originally Posted by roncouch

As a recovering PA author, I ask myself If I would have paid any attention to the warnings posted here and other sites had I bothered to look. Frankly, I don't know. I do know I did not write a book for money, and that's a good thing seeing as my recent PA royalty check was a staggering $34.00. People make mistakes. Some have difficulty admitting errors in decision making. I don't. I screwed up! It won't be the last time. Good luck to all in your writings endeavors.

I don't get on this thread very often anymore, I don't like to rehash my experience with PA. I didn't read anything about them. I did absolutely no research. When they published a poor excuse for a poetry book I had written I was elated. But I was in the tale-end of my days in active alcoholism. I went to prison for DWI the day after my acceptance e-mail.

PA hurt and scarred, I am better for it. I would have never found AW otherwise. And now I have to admit, PA was a mistake. Period. But one I learned from.

And due to health problems I am a thirty-two year-old on disabilty. I am writing with the intent of making it my living. I have been working on my first novel for two+ years because it has to be my launching pad. I do write for money (meant to be taken in the sense that it is the only career I want), though the only work I have had published is my essay entitled "The Path was Rocky but Worth it", located in the Memoirs and Life Stories thread here. It was published in "Voices of Alcoholism".

I have only been writting seriously since I got out of prison April 3, 2006. But if I hadn't gotten the boost of having my PA contract on my mind the whole time I was inside I may not have written after I got out.

I am NOT endorsing PA, but when life gives you lemons, learn from your mistakes and squeeze those lemons; everyone likes lemonade!

[brianm]

Upstream in this thread, CaoPaux gave a link to the index for the PA forums.

Welcome, Xanadian! If you haven't already found it, check out the Index to the PA Forums which groups discussions by subject.

That index includes previous discussions on the steps a PA author can take in order to get their contract canceled. It is entitled, "Analysis of PA’s Contract (and How to Escape It)."

I urge any AW member or lurker to read this section if you are seeking advice on how to get your contract with PA canceled.

I corrected the advice given by AW member malberque upstream in this thread and explained why the advice was poor. If, in doing so, I offended this poster, I apologise. But I feel giving proven incorrect advice to a PA author on how to get out of their contract will only add to their frustration when that advice leads to a deadend.

I won’t address the negative comments about AW members made by both roncouch and malberque upstream, except to say that I mark it down to new members who have not taken the time or had the time to get to know AW’s members. Especially those members who post on a regular basis to the PA threads.

[circlexranch]

Brian is dead on and I always read his posts in great detail.

Regarding my experience with the BBB. Filing a complaint only does good if the business cares about resolving complaints. The BBB doesn't really do anything, it's just a clearing house for information.

I filed a complaint on an on-line print company I use for different packages. They sent me my order printed on the wrong stock. Not a little wrong - completely wrong. When I got the minimum wage clerk on the phone to resolve the issue he told me that he printed it on the paper he had and if I didn't like it, then tough, and then he hung up.

Further inquiries went unanswered. I filed a BBB complaint. The next communication was from the district manager of the company and I got my order replaced for free with a nice gaggle of freebie coupons included. The BBB did nothing other than forward on my complaint. However, the management of the company cared about their reputation and took initiative to resolve the complaint.

PA doesn't give a flying foo-foo about their reputation with those already hooked on the contract. Therefore, a BBB complaint isn't even going to register on their radar.

Getting out of your contract is best accomplished by a constant and steady barrage of firmly, but politely, worded emails and letters stating that you are not going to purchase any more books, not going to market the book in any way and have contacted everyone on the author questionairre to not purchase books. Make it easier on them to get rid of you than keep you.

I broke a lease that way. Constant, unrelenting, but justified, complaints about every problem in the apartment and just being a thorn in their side until it was easier to wish me into the cornfield than face another of my complaints.

[smsarber]

That is how I got out of mine, sans the "polite" part. I informed them that I would not purchase any books, that no one else would, and that I would do everything in my power to "soil their good name" (HAHAHAHAHA!!). That I was home all the time and I could be a very irritating thorn. I really do think I used the thorn line; if not, I did consider it.

[Afinerosesheis]

Originally Posted by roncouch

As a recovering PA author, I ask myself If I would have paid any attention to the warnings posted here and other sites had I bothered to look. Frankly, I don't know. I do know I did not write a book for money, and that's a good thing seeing as my recent PA royalty check was a staggering $34.00. People make mistakes. Some have difficulty admitting errors in decision making. I don't. I screwed up! It won't be the last time. Good luck to all in your writings endeavors.

Originally Posted by smsarber

I don't get on this thread very often anymore, I don't like to rehash my experience with PA. I didn't read anything about them. I did absolutely no research. When they published a poor excuse for a poetry book I had written I was elated. But I was in the tale-end of my days in active alcoholism. I went to prison for DWI the day after my acceptance e-mail.

PA hurt and scarred, I am better for it. I would have never found AW otherwise. And now I have to admit, PA was a mistake. Period. But one I learned from.

And due to health problems I am a thirty-two year-old on disabilty. I am writing with the intent of making it my living. I have been working on my first novel for two+ years because it has to be my launching pad. I do write for money (meant to be taken in the sense that it is the only career I want), though the only work I have had published is my essay entitled "The Path was Rocky but Worth it", located in the Memoirs and Life Stories thread here. It was published in "Voices of Alcoholism".

I have only been writting seriously since I got out of prison April 3, 2006. But if I hadn't gotten the boost of having my PA contract on my mind the whole time I was inside I may not have written after I got out.

I am NOT endorsing PA, but when life gives you lemons, learn from your mistakes and squeeze those lemons; everyone likes lemonade!

I know how both of you feel. I would hope more would understand that we are not dummies, just made bad choices. We took the blame for the errors of our ways and came here to give a little help for others not to make the same mistake. I believed what PA said on their website. I thought they were a new upcoming company that would do things a little different. I also talked to a current PA author before I signed. Little did we both know (at the time) how they really worked. I thought I knew better, but I didn't. I take full blame for that.

Sometimes at AW there is a sense of "It's your fault. You should've known better, you should have researched...", even if it isn't stated in those exact words. I know all that and so do others who come here. We'll take the blame, but instead of the should've dones, the sense should change to this is what you can do now. Sometimes the undercurrents here leave a bad taste in my mouth. Sometimes a helpful posting goes ignored in favor of the snarky ones. This doesn't help anyone. Does it make some here feel superior? Just MHO is all.
This has been on my mind for a long time.

Ron, if you made 34.00 that is about the top royalty pay you'll ever see from PA. My biggest one was over forty. But it's sad though, isn't it?

We have had our lemons, and I don't mind admitting I was wrong and will proceed to make lemonade. If people want to judge, so be it.

[Queen of Swords]

Rose, I was wondering. Would you say the largest royalty check from PA is most often the first one, and then after that they taper off?

[malberque@comcast.ne]

Originally Posted by brianm

Upstream in this thread, CaoPaux gave a link to the index for the PA forums.



That index includes previous discussions on the steps a PA author can take in order to get their contract canceled. It is entitled, "Analysis of PA’s Contract (and How to Escape It)."

I urge any AW member or lurker to read this section if you are seeking advice on how to get your contract with PA canceled.

I corrected the advice given by AW member malberque upstream in this thread and explained why the advice was poor. If, in doing so, I offended this poster, I apologise. But I feel giving proven incorrect advice to a PA author on how to get out of their contract will only add to their frustration when that advice leads to a deadend.

I won’t address the negative comments about AW members made by both roncouch and malberque upstream, except to say that I mark it down to new members who have not taken the time or had the time to get to know AW’s members. Especially those members who post on a regular basis to the PA threads.

I accept your apology and will endeavor to get to know AW members better.

[Afinerosesheis]

Originally Posted by Queen of Swords

Rose, I was wondering. Would you say the largest royalty check from PA is most often the first one, and then after that they taper off?

My largest one was this royalty period last year, which was somewhere in the middle. I signed in 1/2006. My first one was my smallest. I think it varies with authors. My friend has never made over fifteen bucks on two books on a royalty check, to the best of my knowledge.

My last two statements were 28 books, 20 books sold. It is hard to admit that on this forum, but it's just fact. It's all my fault I didn't market enough!!!! NOT =)

[roncouch]

Originally Posted by Afinerosesheis

I know how both of you feel. I would hope more would understand that we are not dummies, just made bad choices. We took the blame for the errors of our ways and came here to give a little help for others not to make the same mistake. I believed what PA said on their website. I thought they were a new upcoming company that would do things a little different. I also talked to a current PA author before I signed. Little did we both know (at the time) how they really worked. I thought I knew better, but I didn't. I take full blame for that.

Sometimes at AW there is a sense of "It's your fault. You should've known better, you should have researched...", even if it isn't stated in those exact words. I know all that and so do others who come here. We'll take the blame, but instead of the should've dones, the sense should change to this is what you can do now. Sometimes the undercurrents here leave a bad taste in my mouth. Sometimes a helpful posting goes ignored in favor of the snarky ones. This doesn't help anyone. Does it make some here feel superior? Just MHO is all.
This has been on my mind for a long time.

Ron, if you made 34.00 that is about the top royalty pay you'll ever see from PA. My biggest one was over forty. But it's sad though, isn't it?

We have had our lemons, and I don't mind admitting I was wrong and will proceed to make lemonade. If people want to judge, so be it.

Rose,

My first PA royalty check was 46.00 - then the more recent 34.00. It is sad, I agree. I appreciate your comments. They hit home.

Ron

[smsarber]

Just remember, we are authors... not marketers!! And my royalties totaled less than ten dollars!! I think I "sold" 6 copies.

[roncouch]

"To err is human, to forgive divine." Alexander Pope

[Don Davidson]

Wow, you all actually got royalty checks! I'm impressed. My book's been out 8 months and I've not sold a single book. Nor do I ever expect to. Of course, I don't buy them myself and I don't do any marketing at all. I've even told my friends not to buy the book because it is so overpriced.

As for the BBB, you have to understand how the BBB views its role. It is more like a mediator than an arbitrator--in other words, they try to facilitate a settlement between the parties rather than judging the merits of a controversy. As long as the merchant responds to the complaint, the BBB will take no action against the merchant. Terri is absolutely correct that the BBB's methods assume that merchants want happy customers and will take all reasonable steps to make that happen--but PA is the exception. I filed a complaint with the Maryland BBB, but I had no illusions that the BBB would take any action against PA. I confess I did hope that PA might ignore the complaint or perhaps cancel my contract to make me go away, but no such luck. You can read about it if you want, because it's all posted on the PA page of my web site (christianityforthinkers.com). On the other hand, it was a little bit fun watching PA obfuscate and evade in their responses to the BBB.

[Queen of Swords]

Originally Posted by Don Davidson

Wow, you all actually got royalty checks! I'm impressed. My book's been out 8 months and I've not sold a single book.

On the plus side, this means PA did not recoup its $300 investment in your case.

[malberque@comcast.ne]

Originally Posted by Don Davidson

Wow, you all actually got royalty checks! I'm impressed. My book's been out 8 months and I've not sold a single book. Nor do I ever expect to. Of course, I don't buy them myself and I don't do any marketing at all. I've even told my friends not to buy the book because it is so overpriced.

As for the BBB, you have to understand how the BBB views its role. It is more like a mediator than an arbitrator--in other words, they try to facilitate a settlement between the parties rather than judging the merits of a controversy. As long as the merchant responds to the complaint, the BBB will take no action against the merchant. Terri is absolutely correct that the BBB's methods assume that merchants want happy customers and will take all reasonable steps to make that happen--but PA is the exception. I filed a complaint with the Maryland BBB, but I had no illusions that the BBB would take any action against PA. I confess I did hope that PA might ignore the complaint or perhaps cancel my contract to make me go away, but no such luck. You can read about it if you want, because it's all posted on the PA page of my web site (christianityforthinkers.com). On the other hand, it was a little bit fun watching PA obfuscate and evade in their responses to the BBB.

Hey Don!

For what it's worth, I think it's great that you posted the BBB documents on your page. The letter from PA's attorney in response to their letter on your behalf shows that it's having some impact. At least the BBB is making an effort. It may not get you free, but again it would seem that the authors PA releases are the ones who refuse to market/purchase, and who make noise. Your 'no expectations' attitude is a good one. Keep you chin up. Don't let PA consume you. They have already sucked enough of your soul.

[MadScientistMatt]

Originally Posted by malberque@comcast.ne

My point was this: I own a business. I have been asked by many customers over the years if I was a member of the BBB. Never was I asked if I knew of Web threads about me. True, it's apples and oranges. Perhaps we should appreciate the fact that more mature people are likely to call the BBB for info than they are to type PA into a search engine. A fair number of those who have been duped by PA are seniors. To them, calling the BBB is a no-brainer. They were doing so long before the internet was even a thought. If one person, just one, is spared from the misery that PA deals out, than I believe the effort is not futile. Plus, it may help the 'author' feel less crappy about their choice. Maybe if we concentrated our frustration toward PA, and not each other, things would be a bit less tense in here.

Thanks again, Leslie.

It depends on the type of the business you're in. I work for a start-up firm that does almost all of its business over the Internet, and I do a lot of the direct customer contact. I've never been asked if the company is in the BBB, but there have been a couple times I've had to drop in on an Internet discussion and attempt to resolve a customer's issue on a message board after he had difficulty installing something he bought from us and got upset. It kind of depends on how you attract customers, I guess - we rely largely on publicity spread through Internet communities, so we focus on playing an active roll there and building a good online reputation.

[Marie Pacha]

http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=27801

"Just wondering what happened to my last post. Don't tell me PA is so paranoid that they won't let us post about our new books?

Guess it's just infocenter4 still playing his/her very childish, very immature games. I'll have a new email on the way to author support tomorrow requesting the rights back to both of my books."

[Queen of Swords]

I don't believe it. That was from Don Harpe!

[triceretops]

Was he talking about a new book from a different publisher? That would have bent PA out of whack. No other publisher would remove a success story by one of its authors.

Well, Don...had enough? Yet?

You're alway welcome here, and have been.

Tri

[Queen of Swords]

Originally Posted by triceretops

Was he talking about a new book from a different publisher? That would have bent PA out of whack. No other publisher would remove a success story by one of its authors.

Yes, infocenter usually does that when authors mention books put out by Lulu. It's the first commandment : Thou shalt have no publisher before PA.

Don Harpe does have a new book; publication date August 23, 2008. It's from R. J. Buckley Publishing, where Don is listed as the Director of Acquisitions.

[Jersey Chick]

Well, Don Harpe's post went buh-bye...

[Afinerosesheis]

Originally Posted by Queen of Swords

I don't believe it. That was from Don Harpe!

I wondered what ever happened to him. After he helped to bring down the AS boards he's been scarce. Well, I'll be dam*ed...

[endless rewrite]

If Harpe can see the light there's hope for all. I have seen him be deeply unpleasant and aggressive to authors speaking out against PA on other boards. (not me BTW) Maybe now he will direct some of that righteous anger where it belongs. Saying that, I think anger towards PA is understandable but also a waste of energy. Write another book, write a better book and leave PA way behind.

[Afinerosesheis]

Originally Posted by endless rewrite

If Harpe can see the light there's hope for all. I have seen him be deeply unpleasant and aggressive to authors speaking out against PA on other boards. (not me BTW) Maybe now he will direct some of that righteous anger where it belongs. Saying that, I think anger towards PA is understandable but also a waste of energy. Write another book, write a better book and leave PA way behind.

I won't hold my breath about Harpe changing his ways. I've seen too much out of him, and some directed at me personally. Next thing you know; Harpe, Frenchie and other faithfuls will be back on the board around the virtual campfire singing some PA ditty.

[Jersey Chick]

I've had interactions with Harpe and he strikes me as a bit of a bully at times. I lost all respect for him a while ago and don't see that coming back any time soon.