What things are considered to be forbidden when writing?

The function of a story opening is simple--to get the reader so interested he/she will want to keep reading. This means it should get the story started. This doesn't mean it has to have mad action or even a direct address of the story arc itself. It can be as simple as presenting some aspect of the story or of the characters in the story that interests the reader, resonates with the reader, or otherwise tweaks some kind of emotion or curiosity that drives the reader to want more. It can be tangential to the story (establishing important characterization for one of the players, for example), but still should have some significant contact with the story arc.

Dream sequences typically dance around the story, and then hit the reader with the death-knell. If that reader follows the events in the dream, maybe even getting that necessary involvement in it, but then is hit with the "Oh, by the way, Dear Reader, the preceding was just a dream, so you know, try to see what it may have to do with the story that I will now begin to tell you about," what do you expect of reader reaction? Good luck with that approach. It can be successful, but it takes extreme skill to pull it off, and clumsy attempts have been way too numerous. This is why agents will react as they do. Save the symbolism of the dream for later when the story is well-established, or at least reader interest is so established.

There's no "rules" for opening or writing a novel. IMO, there's something I refer to as a "commandment" (Thou Shalt Not Confuse Thy Reader), but there are no "rules".

What you ran into with the agent is a strong preference born of too many people doing it wrong. Many of the "rules" of writing you'll find mentioned around the web are based on things that people usually don't do well.

But if you do them well, you blow them all out of the water and people don't understand how you could "break the rules and get away with it."

Because you've got to practice to get something right, you have to do a bit/lot of wrong to learn how to make it work, and you run up against all these "rules", most writers accept the "rules" and shut down that part of their story and never try to improve in that area.

So, yes, it's embarrassing. But embarrassing isn't a death sentence, it isn't the end of anything, it's just a natural reaction to being caught with your "pants down". The answer is to pull 'em up, and stroll out like it doesn't matter because it doesn't in the long run, and learn what you can from what you were told.

What about dream openings are usually done badly? What part of that list did you do in your opening? Will changing those parts strengthen your vision in the story, or detract from it? Does the opening you have really get the story you wanted onto the page, or was it just "easier" to write it? (Hint: if it's "easier to write", it's often not the best choice for the scene.)

In the 30-odd years I've been writing and submitting, I've had multiple embarrassments like the one you describe, several of them far worse. It's all a learning curve, trying to figure out what methods, techniques and choices will get the story in my head on to the page correctly. We've chosen a task that will always open us up to embarrassment, scorn as well as adoration and praise. If you want to publish, to really put your work out there, you'll have to learn how to shake it all off (good and bad) and keep going.

Hope that helps.

where's that 74 reasons an agent rejects a manuscript thread? Oh, here it is:

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=257768

The original post was edited to delete the pasted list, but the link is still live. Useful discussion in that thread too.

There are 2 forbidden things:
1) Don't bore the reader
2) Don't confuse the reader (by accident)

Beyond that, anything "forbidden" is allowed if you're a good enough writer to make it work. In writing, skill trumps rules every time.

That said, many of the "rules" exist because people break them all the time and don't do it well enough to pull it off. And there are other "rules" that exist because they've been done so often in the past that it's hard for even a good writer to do them in a way that isn't utterly boring and predictable. So it helps to know your genre, and be familiar with its tropes and trends.

Where do you fall in the continuum of craft? Participate in the AW community for a while, then post some stuff in SYW and people there will be happy to give you some feedback!

I'm not sure the OP is talking about dream sequences, just about having the MC waking up. Which is a common and usually dull opening. They're waking up...what's happening?? It's not strictly impossible to open this way, but you better have a damn good reason for doing so and it better be interesting. Some other openings you might want to reconsider. (Yeah, waking up is the first one listed.)

You might consider putting up your query and opening in SYW when you have 50 posts.

A good writer can write anything and make it work. That said, there are a multitude of things that have been done so often and so poorly that an unpublished author will get little traction with them.

I used to work in the theatre, and I watched a lot of auditions. There are songs that, if you are smart, you don’t audition with. “Memory” from Cats comes to mind. Great song, but the auditioners have heard it so many times that they are sick to death of it. They have also heard so many folks do it badly that they expect badness. Can you audition with “Memory?” Sure, but you are going to have to be 100 times better than anyone who has ever sung that song before, and even then, the judges may have such “Memory” hate that they simply cannot listen to that song with an open mind.

Same thing with agents, I bet. They have seen some things so much, and done so badly, that they simply cannot help but think, “Oh no, not that again!” Agents are human. It doesn’t matter how masterfully you write the cliché, sometimes they just can’t bear reading another dream sequence opener.

Some things I’ve seen recently in the agent “not want” lists.
Dream openers
Time travel
Vampires (Yes, very popular, that’s why slush piles are full of them)
Amnesia
Prologues
Characters looking in mirrors

That doesn’t mean that a good writer cannot use these things and write them well, but that writer will still have to deal with the fact that these things are a big turn off for most agents.

Ah that's why my book: The Forgetful Vampire's Dream Time Machine Reflection didn't sell.

Stanhy59 said:

Imagine my shock and embarrasment when I found out that my new rewrite used a scene (waking up) that was one of the huge no-nos of opening a story.
I had *no* idea.

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There are a few things that have become tedious from overuse. Mostly, I think, they are things that make life easy for the author but may put a reader to sleep. I imagine that agents see them so often that they may not be able to get past the automatic reaction.

All these things can still work, but they have to be very well done, and you have to get past the automatic pre-judging.

Examples:

1. "It was all a dream," as an ending. (some states prescribe death by lethal injection for this)

2. Waking up in a strange place with no idea. Or even at home, but something is 'not right'. Or even just waking up to a normal day, not knowing everything is about to go to hell.

3. Describing the viewpoint character by having them look in a mirror. (I did this once and got basically the same reaction you got for your waking-up scene.)

4. Opening with a description of the weather, or the setting, or the past 100 years of post-apocalyptic history. (unless you do it really, really well)

5. The Mary Sue main character.

1. "It was all a dream," as an ending. (some states prescribe death by lethal injection for this)

2. Waking up in a strange place with no idea. Or even at home, but something is 'not right'. Or even just waking up to a normal day, not knowing everything is about to go to hell.

3. Describing the viewpoint character by having them look in a mirror. (I did this once and got basically the same reaction you got for your waking-up scene.)

4. Opening with a description of the weather, or the setting, or the past 100 years of post-apocalyptic history. (unless you do it really, really well)

5. The Mary Sue main character.

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(Honourable mentions - starting with a dream, starting in a white room where the protag doesn't know where they are, starting with unattributed dialogue...)

And I've seen al these done so well I was hooked into the book.

All these things are overused, often badly, and put an agent's teeth on edge

They can all be done so well, an agent will offer rep.


Nothing is forbidden, as long as you do it well (ETA except boring a reader!)

That said, it's worth avoiding these unless it is crucial to the story and/or you have a bit of a history, publishing wise. Or until you can see why they are a problem, and get around it. They can be done well, but it's a lot easier to get it wrong....

dangerousbill said:

All these things can still work, but they have to be very well done, and you have to get past the automatic pre-judging.

Examples:

1. "It was all a dream," as an ending. (some states prescribe death by lethal injection for this)

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Personally, I have to disagree that this can ever be done well enough to keep me from throwing the book into a wood chipper and burning the author in effigy. I would add to that unofficial Writer Commandment list "Thou shalt not waste the reader's time." Being told that the whole story didn't happen, after I've invested energy, emotions, and irreplaceable hours of my life reading it... well, why? I can turn to the left or the right of your book in the store and find equally exciting, interesting, and thought-provoking stories that did actually happen in the characters' lives.

Sorry... /rant.

Anyway, to the OP: As others have posted, it's not so much that there is a top-secret list, passed among agents and the shadowy Story Police, about deadly writing sins that will condemn your manuscript and your soul to Rejection Hell. It's that there are elements so overused and, generally, so weak that you're not doing yourself any favors relying on them. The dream opening's a great example; unless that dream is in some way prophetic, it's not really starting the story. A character waking up isn't often doing anything interesting... or anything the reader needs to know about. (I wake up most every day myself, after all - I kinda know how it works.) These things can be, and have been, done well, but far more often than not they're just delaying tactics before the real story starts.

Brightdreamer said:

Personally, I have to disagree that this can ever be done well enough to keep me from throwing the book into a wood chipper and burning the author in effigy.

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'Last night I dreamed I went to Manderley again. It seemed to me...'

Rebecca, Du Maurier

ETA:

nuts, you said ending, I was still thinking of beginnings! I'm sure there must be one...In film, WIzard of Oz, American Psycho (ok, it was all a hallucination,possibly) Total Recall left it up in the air. Several films where 'was it a dream or is he just bonkers?' Inception - ha! IN books, Alice's Adventure in Wonderland, pretty sure Pratchett used in one Discworld novel (a Tiffany one? Though I think he lampshaded it) I'm sure there's more, and plenty where it's tipped on its head.

Point is, for a certain type of story it may work. It's just really hard to do, so be careful.

Stanhy59 said:

Thank you for the feedback and the kind words. I felt like an eighth grader who went up on stage to give a presentation, not knowing that my skirt was firmly stuffed into my pantyhose. It was that kind of embarrassment.

Thank goodness I hadn't submitted this to anyone before the critique. I have another opening in mind to try out, that I do like better the more I mull it over. Hopefully this will end up being a blessing in disguise.

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Stan.

The only rules to writing are: (1) do not confuse the reader, (2) do not bore the reader, and (3) write so well that the reader is compelled to read to the end no matter what type of opening you choose.

Susan Littlefield said:

Stan.

The only rules to writing are: (1) do not confuse the reader, (2) do not bore the reader, and (3) write so well that the reader is compelled to read to the end no matter what type of opening you choose.

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Seconding this. I opened a short story with a character waking up because it fit that particular story. It got accepted and published.

Stanhy59 said:

Thank you for the feedback and the kind words. I felt like an eighth grader who went up on stage to give a presentation, not knowing that my skirt was firmly stuffed into my pantyhose. It was that kind of embarrassment.

Thank goodness I hadn't submitted this to anyone before the critique. I have another opening in mind to try out, that I do like better the more I mull it over. Hopefully this will end up being a blessing in disguise.

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We all do stuff like this when we first start out. Some of the stuff I did with my first query attempts and first manuscript are thoroughly embarrassing when I look back on them.

But don't let it get you down. You get more experienced every day Take it as an awesome learning experience. I suggest taking a look at some of the stuff that agents rant about seeing over and over again (there are lists of them on the internet). And you can always go over to the slushpile hell website to make yourself feel better (and giggle really hard) there are people making MUCH worse mistakes than us newbies!

The last book I read started with the MC waking up. It was a great opening and hooked me in from the first paragraph, because of the circumstances he was waking up under.

Frankly, if an agent read me the riot act like that for breaking some imaginary rule, I would just walk away, thanking the gods I hadn't made the mistake of having them represent me. I read widely enough to know damn well that there are no rules, except being interesting.

The ONLY thing an agent should be concerned with is what the editors at the big houses are buying. Because I read large numbers of new releases from said houses, I know they're buying books with all the elements some agents list not wanting. So I don't submit to agents who make those lists, since we clearly have different priorities (my priority being to sell to the editor at a major house, their priority apparently being to make stupid, arbitrary lists).

Of course, the OP's opening might suck. But I wouldn't take advice from anyone who talks in absolutes and rules.

I wouldn't worry about what's forbidden. After all, forbidden by whom? Under what penalty?

There's a thread in the Novels forum where people have been posting the first three sentences of their novels. I'd recommend going over there and reading, reading, reading. It's an invaluable resource for seeing what grips you and why, and what doesn't want to make you read on. Doing some reading--and commenting--over there will help your writing a hundred times more than trying to internalise some rules.

AVS said:

Ah that's why my book: The Forgetful Vampire's Dream Time Machine Reflection didn't sell.

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The first novel I wrote had three chapters of back story before the actual story started. Had monologues instead of dialogues. Had very detailed descriptions of what they ate for dinner. Had characters that completely flipped their beliefs and actions because it was more convenient for me. Was mostly tell, with very little show. Was 180k words long. Every single bit of conversation between characters ended with "he/she said fill-in-the-blank-ly." And my MC was a total Mary Sue.

Pretty much everything I need to know about how not to write a novel, I learned from writing my first novel. I got a lot of feed back, eventually trunked the thing because it was beyond hope, and moved on with new lessons in hand. Sometimes getting embarressed is a good thing, it teaches you things you didn't know before, and in writing it seems like knowing what not to do is half the battle.

Buffysquirrel said:

I wouldn't worry about what's forbidden. After all, forbidden by whom? Under what penalty?

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Being eaten by clowns, pretty sure

Yup

I've got a list here:

Abusing adverbs -- a bucket of eels down the underwear
Starting with dialogue -- death by sherbert
'It was all a dream' -- licked to coma by fluffy bunnies
Prologue abuse -- Bat country. While covered in bat food.
Starting with MC waking up -- eaten by clowns

I've heard it said that readers ask three questions:

1. So what?
-does the reader care? Don't bore the reader.

2. Huh?
-is the reader confused? Don't confuse the reader.

3. Oh yeah?
-does the reader believe stuff works that way? Don't break the reader's suspension of disbelief.

Those are the three things I try to consider with everything I write.

Mr Flibble said:

In film, WIzard of Oz, American Psycho (ok, it was all a hallucination,possibly) Total Recall left it up in the air. Several films where 'was it a dream or is he just bonkers?' Inception - ha! IN books, Alice's Adventure in Wonderland, pretty sure Pratchett used in one Discworld novel (a Tiffany one? Though I think he lampshaded it) I'm sure there's more, and plenty where it's tipped on its head.

Point is, for a certain type of story it may work. It's just really hard to do, so be careful.

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Alice in Wonderland was pretty clearly a dream (or something very wonky) from the start - she realized early on that she couldn't even think like Alice, a common enough trait for dreams. Through the Looking Glass was implied to not even be Alice's dream, but Dinah's; "it was someone else's dream" is at least something unexpected. The book version of Wizard of Oz left Oz a real place; in the movie, I never liked the "just a dream" ending.

As for Inception and Total Recall... "Was it or wasn't it?" isn't quite the same as "Who shot JR?", or "There was no monster." Leave me with a possibility, and I'll choose to believe.

Now, within a larger story, dreams work when they act out something real (i.e. the "Back to Reality" episode of Red Dwarf, where the depressing hallucinations were part of the Despair Squid's attack, or the episode of Magnum, PI where he's pinned under an old plane wreck and solves his latest case during centipede-bite-induced hallucinations.) If I'm told at the outset that this is happening in someone's mind, that also can work. But there has to be more going on, something to validate the experience - some tangible change. If the whole tale ceases to exist when the character wakes up... well, I repeat: why?

I suppose it's a matter of taste. "Just a dream" endings are on my private list of deal-breakers, right up there with "Everyone dies for no reason" and "Whoops, guess you'll have to read a sequel, sucker, to find out how it really ends!" endings. If a story exists that can make me not feel betrayed by the fact that it didn't happen, I have yet to read it. (Though you mentioned Pratchett... I've never read that particular book, but he'd be on the exceptionally short list of authors who might - might - pull it off.)

In summary, "just a dream" endings may work for a certain type of story. I'm just not a fan of that type of story.

Again, this is JMHO.

/derail

Total Recall left it up in the air? Only if you believe people can recover in seconds from exposure to near-vacuum....

Buffysquirrel said:

Total Recall left it up in the air? Only if you believe people can recover in seconds from exposure to near-vacuum....

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I was near a Dyson once and survived. It was very frightening.