Having trouble developing UF setting, would like help

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MormonMobster

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Hey all,

So I've been trying to write a Dresden Files-esque urban fantasy set in the American Southwest (mostly the Four Corners states). I'm having fun with a few ideas for the setting (and a little bit of writing the actual story), but I'm having trouble with fully developing the setting. I've only got a few characters and a few concepts for the setting. I don't want anyone to dictate my writing or my characters, but I've been unable to think of new twists for the setting for weeks, and I feel like my setting is a bit "empty". So I'd like some help in figuring out how to fill the setting in interesting ways. Here's what I have so far.

Trans-dimensional Railroad: Most of the American public knows that there was a transcontinental railroad built across the nation, from sea to shining sea. Many know that the last rail spike, a golden ceremonial spike, was hammered in Utah. What only the students of the supernatural know is that the golden spike was the focus for a ritual that created a spectral railroad network across the Southwestern United States for the traveling sorcerer.
All a magician needs to do is slam an iron spike into soft ground, extend their supernatural will, and a spectral train will appear, visible only to those of a magical persuasion. Once boarded, the train vanishes from the plane of mortal existence, and the magician must inform the conductor (a humanoid being cloaked in shadows) where they want to go. Once the destination is given, the train continues on, traveling through terrifying sorcerous realms, always arriving at it's destination in an hours time. Unfortunately for some travelers, while hostile humans cannot follow the train through dimensions, the more hardy supernatural creatures can.

Four Corners Neutral Ground:
While most people assume that the borders of Arizona, Colorado, New Mexico and Utah meet at the Four Corners Monument, the occult-minded know that this is not quite true. As it turns out, the "official" border of the four states was deliberately falsified to draw the curious tourists away from the real location. Where the states actually touch, there is a small Navajo village placed on a crossing of magical ley-lines of the region. This neutral ground, known simply to supernatural types as "The Meeting Ground", is a place for disputes to be aired nonviolently, a sort of American magical Switzerland. Large-scale magical warfare is forbidden here, and no weapons are allowed. However, duels based solely on magical ability and natural advantages (such as claws) are permitted.

The Navajo guard their neutrality (extended from the Meeting Ground to their entire people by informal agreement) jealously, however, and any violations are greeted with a mixture of firearms and nearly every magical defense known to mankind. The Navajo enjoy playing up a harmless "mystic" stereotype to anyone who asks, but once their homes are violated, very few beings have lived to tell the tale.

Supernatural Cartel: I'm unsure of most details for this (including the name), but they're going to be a major antagonistic force, a drug cartel whose upper leadership delve into the supernatural, and either secretly employ monsters or seek to subvert and control all users of magic in their area of influence.

Main Character: I don't have a name for him yet, because I'm unsure of what culture he's going to be from. See, a big part of his backstory is that he and his family fled somewhere as refugees when he was young, used the Transdimensional Train on a friend's suggestion, but were attacked while on it. His parents went missing (presumed dead), and he was effectively crippled on his left arm and leg. He was later adopted (by who, I don't know), or perhaps a ward of the state. Thing is, while he feels survivor's guilt, and is permanently harmed, he also feels an excitement at the memory of the attack. In fact, he's become a danger junkie, obsessed with interacting with the supernatural and confronting supernatural threat. He's got a non-magical job, but his real interest is figuring out more about the supernatural community. He lives in Utah, but due to the convenience of the magical train, he can operate nearly anywhere in the southwestern US.

JT: Also known as Jason Tovioni, JT is the main character's best friend, a happy-go-lucky sort of guy who also lives in Utah, and operates as a modern day auspice. He's an aspiring writer, and is Tongan. He gives the main character a heads up for supernatural conflicts in the Four Corners states.

And that's really all I have, besides a one-time antagonist that the main character defeats early on in the story. So I really need help fleshing the setting out, because I don't know who or what else to add to the setting. I want to use a lot of Southwestern legends/mythology, but I'm also leaning towards using European supernatural themes for this.
 

Cairo Amani

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I have fallen into the world plotting thing quite often. If you are open to the idea of writing now and planning later, I would give that a try. The reason I suggest it goes as such:

1. The more time you spend planning the novel, the less time you spend writing it.

2. It is quite possible that while you are writing the ideas will FLESH THEMSELVES out. I would advise keeping a notebook or document open while you write the story, to jot down more ideas that come to you.

Consider writing the equivalent of getting your thought-blood pumping. if you are like me and need to write linearly (meaning from beginning to end and not middle to end to beginning), I sympathize with you. Sometimes I spend hours staring at a page because I know how the chapter will end but i HAVE to write the beginning first.

If you find it easy to write scenes whenever, then KUDOS to you, because my suggestion will be easy for you.
 

MormonMobster

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Well, I feel like I can't continue on with the story until I have a fairly well-developed world. I've tried to keep going, but it doesn't feel right to continue without having at least a bare-bones setting.
 

Cairo Amani

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I understand. Maybe you could try the angle of the minutia leading to the larger concepts. It seems you have your larger concepts in tact. Maybe your smaller concepts will lead to bigger ideas. For example,

I was working on a high fantasy story and I started with 16 diff races. I decided where they lived and what their cultures were. And then I picked a character from one of those races and created a plot.

Maybe you could try working from small to large? :)
 

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All a magician needs to do is slam an iron spike into soft ground, extend their supernatural will, and a spectral train will appear, visible only to those of a magical persuasion. Once boarded, the train vanishes from the plane of mortal existence, and the magician must inform the conductor (a humanoid being cloaked in shadows) where they want to go.

That’s pretty Harry Potter.

Four Corners Neutral Ground

Why would people go there? If you’re not safe from magic, and anywhere else you can throw-down with magic and guns?

He's an aspiring writer

Ack. This is a turn-off for me. It reads too much like the author putting themselves in the plot. Plus, writing about a writer, writing, could get incestuous. Go for something that's an excuse to be out and about getting into trouble; stay-at-home-writers...stay at home.

My advice would be to figure out a Key Moment in the adult life of your MC—ie the event your story is going to pivot round (finding his parents survived and are now doing something Bad seems like a good shout), and shape your world around that information. Make people and places and culture obstacles to prevent him learning/doing/seeing vital parts of this. Make the world kind of an embodiment of Chekov’s Gun and Murphy’s Law. Otherwise there’s a danger of you inventing a whole lot of cool stuff that’s essentially without purpose, and then having your MC do the grand tour because it’s there, rather than because it’s a convincing or coherent course of action.
 

MormonMobster

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Wow, that's pretty blunt commentary. I guess I'll take it as constructively as possible, then.

That’s pretty Harry Potter.

Maybe. Though I didn't even think about Harry Potter when I came with the idea. All I was trying to think of was a mystical way to get around to isolated places quickly, and a way to not have my protagonist stuck in Utah (since I don't think people would want to read a Utah-only UF, and because I want to branch out beyond Utah in the setting).

Why would people go there? If you’re not safe from magic, and anywhere else you can throw-down with magic and guns?

Well, it's supposed to be a place where supernatural individuals at odds can air their grievances without fear of attack, and where the Navajo will prevent all but the absolute strongest from committing violence, but I suppose I could modify the nature of the location if needs be.


Ack. This is a turn-off for me. It reads too much like the author putting themselves in the plot. Plus, writing about a writer, writing, could get incestuous. Go for something that's an excuse to be out and about getting into trouble; stay-at-home-writers...stay at home.

That's fine. I just wanted the side character to have a hobby that wasn't stereotypical for a Tongan to have, and a hobby that wasn't physical.

My advice would be to figure out a Key Moment in the adult life of your MC—ie the event your story is going to pivot round (finding his parents survived and are now doing something Bad seems like a good shout), and shape your world around that information. Make people and places and culture obstacles to prevent him learning/doing/seeing vital parts of this. Make the world kind of an embodiment of Chekov’s Gun and Murphy’s Law. Otherwise there’s a danger of you inventing a whole lot of cool stuff that’s essentially without purpose, and then having your MC do the grand tour because it’s there, rather than because it’s a convincing or coherent course of action.

Hmm... By that you mean, make everything and everyone that appears in the story have something to do with the protagonist (perhaps not to begin with, but in the end he's involved with everything major that's mentioned), and that everything that could go wrong, will go wrong? I could work with that.
 

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Sorry for coming across so blunt, not how I meant it ;) Think of them as questions to stimulate thought/discussion...

By that you mean, make everything and everyone that appears in the story have something to do with the protagonist (perhaps not to begin with, but in the end he's involved with everything major that's mentioned), and that everything that could go wrong, will go wrong? I could work with that.

Go and look at something like Harry Potter & the Prisoner of Azkaban. All the stuff in there that seems to be fluff and colour at the edges turns out to be pivotal to the plot in some way. That's not a bad way to go about writing.
 

MormonMobster

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Sorry for coming across so blunt, not how I meant it ;) Think of them as questions to stimulate thought/discussion...



Go and look at something like Harry Potter & the Prisoner of Azkaban. All the stuff in there that seems to be fluff and colour at the edges turns out to be pivotal to the plot in some way. That's not a bad way to go about writing.

Or how in the Dresden Files, everything that seems unrelated sort of ends up being connected in the end? Alright.

I'm still struggling on my MC's name and background, and I don't feel like I can go too far in the story without it. I want a modern-day name that evokes a "mystical" concept, while also being appropriate to whatever ethnicity/nationality the MC comes from. I'm leaning towards a Greek name, since Utah has a long history of Greek migrants, but I don't know how to get any name to "fit" my character. Once I have a fitting name, I think I'll be able to continue on in the story/worldbuild if I need to.
 

Russell Secord

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Don't let anyone tell you there's a right way or a wrong way to go about writing. Do as much world building as you need to. I can't start writing until I have a firm foundation.

I have some questions about your setting. Maybe thinking about the answers will help.

You mention the Transdimensional Railroad and that someone built it, but who was that someone? Does that group still exist, and if so, would they tend to help or hinder your MC?

I like the idea of the train, but you may want to put some limitations on it at first. Otherwise you have nowhere to go but down (although there's always flying and teleportation). Maybe you have to find specific places to summon it. Maybe the summoning takes a long time at first. Maybe it doesn't always come. As your MC learns and becomes more powerful, he gets better at it.

Could the drug cartel have ties to the Aztec culture? Maybe they're descendants of the surviving priesthood or modern-day copycats like the druids. That lets you work human sacrifice into the story (if it's not too squicky).

To determine your MC's nationality, work back from his current age, decide when his family fled their homeland, and find a country that was in turmoil at the time. If it's the early 90s, Croatia could work. Late 70s to early 80s, almost any Eastern European country. Late 60s, Czechoslovakia or even France. Et cetera.
 
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MormonMobster

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You mention the Transdimensional Railroad and that someone built it, but who was that someone? Does that group still exist, and if so, would they tend to help or hinder your MC?

I like the idea of the train, but you may want to put some limitations on it at first. Otherwise you have nowhere to go but down (although there's always flying and teleportation). Maybe you have to find specific places to summon it. Maybe the summoning takes a long time at first. Maybe it doesn't always come. As your MC learns and becomes more powerful, he gets better at it.

My idea is that the biggest weakness of the train is that it can be attacked by hostile supernatural forces, if they are prepared. I'm unsure on whether to have the train only accessible at certain locations or not, as I'd like the MC to be able to easily travel to different locations in the Four Corners states. Or perhaps I could have the train be only a way to travel to different realms of existence, ala the Faerie Realms, Hades, etc, along with it's purpose in transporting passengers quickly through those realms.

I'm going to have flying and teleportation be difficult, but possible for the most powerful. Definitely not by the MC.

Could the drug cartel have ties to the Aztec culture? Maybe they're descendants of the surviving priesthood or modern-day copycats like the druids. That lets you work human sacrifice into the story (if it's not too squicky).
That's a fun idea, but it feels like I would be cribbing a bit from the Dresden Files, and their Maya-inspired vampire Red Court.

To determine your MC's nationality, work back from his current age, decide when his family fled their homeland, and find a country that was in turmoil at the time. If it's the early 90s, Croatia could work. Late 70s to early 80s, almost any Eastern European country. Late 60s, Czechoslovakia or even France. Et cetera.
I'm looking at having a protagonist in his early-to-mid twenties, having fled at the possible age of 8-12. And I also want to set the story in the present day. So the conflict will probably be a 90s era one, though I'm open to the MC being stuck, unaging for a few years in some supernatural realm and returning in his twenties, when he should be in his thirties. I like the idea of the MC having family in America who encouraged his parents to flee to the US, so that narrows the options a bit. I want a protagonist with a name that's not "dull", but is also not exotic enough to be off-putting to readers. I mean, a name that rolls off the tongue well. Right now, I'm thinking of having the MC be from Latin America (and keep the drug cartel connection), from Haiti or another Caribbean country (and avoid Voodoo because I want to avoid stereotypes), or a Southeast Asian country like Vietnam (and have no idea how to have that background be relevant to what the protagonist is currently fighting).
 

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Invent a tourist character. A person with the miraculous ability to always find exactly the wrong alley, bar, hotel or taxi.

Go on a tour of your setting. Since the purpose of the story is to look around, it can be as long or short, as coherent or scattered as you like.

Write it in whatever form you like. Straight prose. A travel diary. Crazy Aunt Lizzie's emails to her incredulous family back home. The ponderings of a puzzled Time Lord observing from outside space-time.

If you feel you need some kind of overarching plot, nick something high-concept like:
  • A case of mistaken identity
  • A jewellery-type old family heirloom the tourist happens to be wearing that all sorts of undesirables suddenly want
  • A souvenir bought in a funny little shop that unbeknownst to the tourist contains terrible dark powers that certain shady characters will do anything to get their hands on
  • A librarian using his or her holiday to look for a particular book - a book with a terrible secret in its pages
 

MormonMobster

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Invent a tourist character. A person with the miraculous ability to always find exactly the wrong alley, bar, hotel or taxi.

Go on a tour of your setting. Since the purpose of the story is to look around, it can be as long or short, as coherent or scattered as you like.

Write it in whatever form you like. Straight prose. A travel diary. Crazy Aunt Lizzie's emails to her incredulous family back home. The ponderings of a puzzled Time Lord observing from outside space-time.

If you feel you need some kind of overarching plot, nick something high-concept like:
  • A case of mistaken identity
  • A jewellery-type old family heirloom the tourist happens to be wearing that all sorts of undesirables suddenly want
  • A souvenir bought in a funny little shop that unbeknownst to the tourist contains terrible dark powers that certain shady characters will do anything to get their hands on
  • A librarian using his or her holiday to look for a particular book - a book with a terrible secret in its pages

Thanks for the advice, and I tried making a tourist/journal character, but I wrote a few scenes where the tourist character checks out the setting, and they didn't seem to fit very well.

I think I'm going to cut out the mystic train; while it fits thematically, I can't figure out a way to make sure it doesn't mess up the plot. I've decided to have Coyote, of Native American legend, instead play a major part in my setting. I'm still trying to figure out the main character and his/her background, but I think Coyote will be involved somehow. Perhaps saving the MC from some threat or obstacle would work.
 

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There is a book, WRITING THE PARANORMAL NOVEL, that might help you out. It doesn't have any you must do this or that in it, but it talks about what considerations go into a paranormal setting from whether they are out in the open to economics and societal norms. It's great for prompting ideas and for opening up plot avenues through society-building.

Personally, I tend to have a lot of world-building notes that seem irrelevant to my work but end up being really important for secondary character motivations. These end up affecting the main character and it dominoes from there.

What you know and what have to be on the page are not the same thing. So, have fun with it. That's the important part, right?
 

J. A. Rama

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Maybe you could try free writing to world build. Ask yourself a question, either randomly or directed by plot necessities, and then just start off writing. Often, even if you don't get a direct answer, your subconscious ends up churning out a lot of great stuff that you wouldn't have known otherwise.
 

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I'm looking at having a protagonist in his early-to-mid twenties, having fled at the possible age of 8-12. And I also want to set the story in the present day. So the conflict will probably be a 90s era one, though I'm open to the MC being stuck, unaging for a few years in some supernatural realm and returning in his twenties, when he should be in his thirties. I like the idea of the MC having family in America who encouraged his parents to flee to the US, so that narrows the options a bit. I want a protagonist with a name that's not "dull", but is also not exotic enough to be off-putting to readers. I mean, a name that rolls off the tongue well. Right now, I'm thinking of having the MC be from Latin America (and keep the drug cartel connection), from Haiti or another Caribbean country (and avoid Voodoo because I want to avoid stereotypes), or a Southeast Asian country like Vietnam (and have no idea how to have that background be relevant to what the protagonist is currently fighting).

Have you thought about a middle-Eastern country? That way your MC's arrival in the US could be related to the Gulf War (1990-1991, I think).

Alternatively, you could push the setting forward a little and set it in the 2030s, setting up the story around conflict that's happening right now. Maybe the financial situation gets way worse next week and your MC and his parents flee a large US city, heading for a remote area in the south-west where they're aiming to join a self-sufficient community of some kind.

Just some random ideas :).
 

MormonMobster

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Have you thought about a middle-Eastern country? That way your MC's arrival in the US could be related to the Gulf War (1990-1991, I think).

Alternatively, you could push the setting forward a little and set it in the 2030s, setting up the story around conflict that's happening right now. Maybe the financial situation gets way worse next week and your MC and his parents flee a large US city, heading for a remote area in the south-west where they're aiming to join a self-sufficient community of some kind.

Just some random ideas :).

Well, I like the idea of the MC being from a Middle Eastern country, but I as I have very little experience with that culture (I don't have experience with the other communities either, but I have the least experience with Middle Eastern communities in the US), and less experience with any legends or tales that I might be able to use, I don't feel comfortable writing a MC that is Middle Eastern. Also, it's difficult to have a "catchy" name that I'd feel comfortable writing over and over. Like how in the Dresden Files, Harry Dresden's first and last names get mentioned over and over.

That's also the main trouble with the other ethnic backgrounds I've been thinking of; I just don't know how to make the names stand out in the way I want them to. And using "normal" names from the American Southwest doesn't seem to feel right either.
 

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I think you're obsessing over getting your main character's backstory just right and it's hurling a big roadblock in front of your efforts.
I've always liked novels in which the MC's backstory gets laid out over the course of the novel. Or the series. There's nothing to say that you've got to get it all laid down and written in stone at the outset. Leave some mystery to keep the character interesting. Pick a name you like, a physical description, a motivation for why they do what they do and for why they're where they are, then get to writing. The rest will unfold to you in time.
 
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