Didn't, Wouldn't, Couldn't, Shouldn't

writermike1 · May 31, 2013

Hello,

I received feedback from an editor, affiliated to a small agency, stating that I should remove (among other things) all instances of 'nts from my writing. For example, "didn't" should become "did not".

She also said that I should be more "formal" in my writing, citing my character saying something was "a pain in the arse" as an example. She believes it should be changed to "it would prove awkward," which I find clunky and not consistent with my character's voice or my style.

I'm always open to constructive criticism because I believe writing to be a fluid learning process, but the recommendation did not seem to ring true and I thought I would ask the consensus of the Forum.

For background purposes my book is a YA supernatural thriller with a fifteen year old main protagonist, told in the third person.

Thanks for any advice or pointers.

LJD · May 31, 2013

writermike1 said:
I received feedback from an editor, affiliated to a small agency, stating that I should remove (among other things) all instances of 'nts from my writing. For example, "didn't" should become "did not".

She also said that I should be more "formal" in my writing, citing my character saying something was "a pain in the arse" as an example. She believes it should be changed to "it would prove awkward," which I find clunky and not consistent with my character's voice or my style.

I'm always open to constructive criticism because I believe writing to be a fluid learning process, but the recommendation did not seem to ring true and I thought I would ask the consensus of the Forum.

Ummmm...wow.
This is terrible advice.

Edit: I would be awful suspicious of any fiction editor who tells you to remove all contractions...

Snowstorm · May 31, 2013

Huh? This makes no sense to me. Some settings require formal speech, but for a YA novel with a 15-year-old protag seems wrong. Not to mention, it sounds incredibly boring. I'd ask why this editor seems to think this.

DeleyanLee · May 31, 2013

Even editors have their personal preferences. That doesn't mean that it's the right thing for your story. That's up to you to decide.

kkbe · May 31, 2013

Total flummox. Is your mc a robot or ? Without having read your novel, I can only surmise that your editor is, how shall I put this?

Insane?

I don't know what you do in a case like yours. You want the thing published but. . .

Tell me you didn't, that you told your editor, most politely, that you couldn't. As for me, I wouldn't. And you shouldn't.

ElaineA · May 31, 2013

How interesting. It makes me wonder if the editor picked up something from the tone of the story itself that would lend it to more formality (even though you say not, sometimes we're deaf to the sound of our writing) or if it's just a general preference. The "pain in the arse" example may be a function of the context of the reference. What's going on around the phrase? And is it dialogue or just authorial observation?

I find I tend to not use contractions in the exposition sections but I retain them within the dialogue if it fits the character.

I agree, if it's a sweeping preference, it's terrible advice. But if it's an agency that regularly reps YA, maybe something else is at work. :Shrug:

BethS · May 31, 2013

writermike1 said:
Hello,

I received feedback from an editor, affiliated to a small agency, stating that I should remove (among other things) all instances of 'nts from my writing. For example, "didn't" should become "did not".

She also said that I should be more "formal" in my writing, citing my character saying something was "a pain in the arse" as an example. She believes it should be changed to "it would prove awkward," which I find clunky and not consistent with my character's voice or my style.

I'm always open to constructive criticism because I believe writing to be a fluid learning process, but the recommendation did not seem to ring true and I thought I would ask the consensus of the Forum.

For background purposes my book is a YA supernatural thriller with a fifteen year old main protagonist, told in the third person.

Thanks for any advice or pointers.

Er...that's really bad advice. Be true to the voice of your character.

And an editor "associated" with an agency? Alarm bells are ringing...

Torgo · May 31, 2013

First question: why is there an editor 'affiliated to a small agency'? Did the agency suggest that you pay for editing?

Torgo · May 31, 2013

citing my character saying something was "a pain in the arse" as an example. She believes it should be changed to "it would prove awkward,"

Second question: WTF?

Twain's Seventh Rule:

7. They require that when a personage talks like an illustrated, gilt-edged, tree-calf, hand-tooled, seven- dollar Friendship's Offering in the beginning of a paragraph, he shall not talk like a negro minstrel in the end of it. But this rule is flung down and danced upon in the "Deerslayer" tale.

writermike1 · May 31, 2013

Thanks everyone for your responses and great advice.

Can I just clarify something - the "pain in the arse" line is in the narrative as part of the character's inner thoughts, rather than speech. Does that make a difference at all?

Thanks again.

Edited to add: Thanks for the responses that came in while I was typing.

The editor reviews my work as part of the agent's assessment as to whether my work is viable, prior to an offer of rep.

Here's the offending paragraph:

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]"The rain had rapped a steady rhythm on his hood the whole way to school, and by the time he reached St Hugh’s Drive Chris was already beginning to regret dressing in his tracksuit bottoms. If it came to it, he had his school uniform in his backpack and it would be a five minute job changing his clothes, but it would still be a pain in the arse."[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]I don't know if this will make a difference, seeing it in context.

Edited again:
And even if it does, I am not changing it to "it would prove awkward."
[/FONT]

Torgo · May 31, 2013

writermike1 said:
Thanks everyone for your responses and great advice.

Can I just clarify something - the "pain in the arse" line is in the narrative as part of the character's inner thoughts, rather than speech. Does that make a difference at all?

Thanks again.

Nope. If it's the character's narrative voice, then it ought to fit the character. Fifteen-year-old kids generally don't have inner thoughts like "it would prove awkward" - that's middle-aged-civil-servant.

LJD · May 31, 2013

Torgo said:
First question: why is there an editor 'affiliated to a small agency'? Did the agency suggest that you pay for editing?

Yeah...
writermike, did you look up the agency in the Beware & Background check section on AW?

Little Anonymous Me · May 31, 2013

writermike1 said:
Thanks everyone for your responses and great advice.

Can I just clarify something - the "pain in the arse" line is in the narrative as part of the character's inner thoughts, rather than speech. Does that make a difference at all?

Thanks again.

Nope. Not one bit. If you're character thinks someone's a pain in the arse, then that's what they think.

And, coming from someone who doesn't use many contractions in formal writing (including my fantasy novels): that 'advice' is shit. Contractions are necessary. They add flow. Only if you want something more formal would you avoid them.

Stay away from that person. My quack radar is tingling.

Snowstorm · May 31, 2013

writermike1 said:
Can I just clarify something - the "pain in the arse" line is in the narrative as part of the character's inner thoughts, rather than speech. Does that make a difference at all?

Agreeing totally with Torgo. One's thoughts still reflect their personality. (Actually, I think one's thoughts are more honest to their personality than their speech which can be manipulated to fit the circumstance.)

jjdebenedictis · May 31, 2013

writermike1 said:
I received feedback from an editor, affiliated to a small agency, stating that I should remove (among other things) all instances of 'nts from my writing.

As others have noted, the bit that's bolded above is REALLY, REALLY WORRISOME.

An agent might suggest that you need a professional editor--that's a valid criticism--but if they refer you to one specific editor, that's a huge red flag.

The agent might be getting a kickback from the editor for referrals, and it's a glaring conflict of interest for there to be a financial incentive for the agent to advise you that you need editing, y'know? Because what's to stop them telling every writer who queries them that they should go to the agent's kickback-buddy for editing?

If this editor is "affiliated" with the agency, that's an even bigger red flag. Unless you're getting these services for free, as part of the agency's interest in your manuscript, then you are very likely being scammed.

(And if they're scamming you, it's no surprise the editor gave you stupid advice--which s/he totally did.)

Money flows toward the writer. Under no circumstances should the agent be making money off you before you are making any money.

pandaponies · May 31, 2013

Uhhh, so the character is 15 and the book is YA?

Dump. that. editor. Like, WOW.

rwm4768 · May 31, 2013

Yeah, that's terrible advice. There's nothing wrong with contractions. I find writing that uses no contractions sounds horribly stilted.

The only problem I see with the "pain in the arse" line is the word "arse." Do people actually say arse instead of ass? Maybe they do, just not where I live.

dangerousbill · May 31, 2013

writermike1 said:
I'm always open to constructive criticism because I believe writing to be a fluid learning process, but the recommendation did not seem to ring true and I thought I would ask the consensus of the Forum.

Basically, this editor is asking you to make your work unreadable. They don't even teach this crap in high school grammar any more. You need to talk to someone higher up in the firm, or find another agent, because this folk doesn't know what s/he's doing.

buz · May 31, 2013

writermike1 said:
The editor reviews my work as part of the agent's assessment as to whether my work is viable, prior to an offer of rep.[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]
[/FONT]

Are you sure the "editor" is not an intern? Because that sort of role sounds intern-y to me...

(even so, wtf intern, but it's a little more understandable as a ridiculous error, I suppose--but then why would the agent pass it on instead of telling their intern "um, no, durr-hurr"--er....I'd just...not go with that agency, probably)

Torgo · May 31, 2013

rwm4768 said:
The only problem I see with the "pain in the arse" line is the word "arse." Do people actually say arse instead of ass? Maybe they do, just not where I live.

In Britain, yes. Not in Missouri! Do try 'arse' sometime, though, it's very satisfying.

Kerosene · May 31, 2013

Shouldn't / Should not is just personal preference for the situation. Just like He'd / He had -- which I'm in favor of the latter in some cases because it is more pronounce. But I always thought editors were trying their hardest to shorten this stuff. :Huh:

writermike1 said:
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]"The rain had rapped a steady rhythm on his hood the whole way to school, and by the time he reached St Hugh’s Drive Chris was already beginning to regret dressing in his tracksuit bottoms. If it came to it, he had his school uniform in his backpack and it would be a five minute job changing his clothes, but it would still be a pain in the arse."[/FONT]

I can see how they would make that judgement with this. In certain cases of third person you can reveal the narrator like this one sequence, so I can understand why he wishes to formalize it. But, personally, I have no problem with it. The sequence here isn't that bad, and it didn't hinder my ability to read whatsoever. Anymore of this, or back to back, the narrator would be revealed a bit more. But that's your choice if you want a profound narrator or to recess them back as much as possible.

Little Anonymous Me · May 31, 2013

writermike1 said:
Edited again:
And even if it does, I am not changing it to "it would prove awkward."
[/FONT][/SIZE]

Good! I don't particularly see anything wrong with it. I like a narrator that makes its presence known--keeps narration from getting bland, IMO.

Moldy · May 31, 2013

"It would prove awkward" o_0 even if it *was* in character for a 15-year old to talk like that (maybe they've been raised by old people in a TV-less wasteland) it still makes the paragraph really boring.

Who gives a crap about something that "proves awkward"? Snore.
Now a pain in the ass (or arse

) is noticeable.

Ayles · May 31, 2013

I agree with buzhidao, sounds like an intern.

VoireyLinger · May 31, 2013

writermike1 said:
Hello,

I received feedback from an editor, affiliated to a small agency, stating that I should remove (among other things) all instances of 'nts from my writing. For example, "didn't" should become "did not".

She also said that I should be more "formal" in my writing, citing my character saying something was "a pain in the arse" as an example. She believes it should be changed to "it would prove awkward," which I find clunky and not consistent with my character's voice or my style.

I'm always open to constructive criticism because I believe writing to be a fluid learning process, but the recommendation did not seem to ring true and I thought I would ask the consensus of the Forum.

For background purposes my book is a YA supernatural thriller with a fifteen year old main protagonist, told in the third person.

Thanks for any advice or pointers.

My advice is to ignore the editor. Your story isn't formal and your characters are designed to read like real people.

I'll also advise to get a free editing sample before paying freelance editors for this reason. Anyone with decent grammar can call themselves an editor. Actual editing requires an understanding of storytelling and when grammar needs to be ignored... which this person doesn't seem to possess.

Didn't, Wouldn't, Couldn't, Shouldn't

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