Buying your way onto NY Times bestseller list

juniper · Mar 7, 2014

I've heard some rumors about similar happenings with other books, but here's a report with some solid info.

http://www.katu.com/news/local/210k-in-church-funds-reportedly-used-to-put-pastors-book-on-bestseller-list-249078501.html

"Pastor Mark Driscoll, leader of Mars Hill Church, reportedly used more than $200,000 to land his book on the New York Times bestseller list. The book, "Real Marriage: The Truth About Sex, Friendship, and Life Together," appeared on the list for one week in January 2012 and then fell off the list ... "

"Andrea Dunlop, who works for Seattle-based Girl Friday Productions, a boutique editing, writing, and marketing company that specializes in books and book productions ... said services where an author "buys" placement onto a best-seller list are "a pretty big and well-guarded mystery." "

This original source link http://www.worldmag.com/2014/03/unreal_sales_for_driscoll_s_real_marriage

says: "ResultSource [the promotions firm] received a fee of $25,000 to coordinate a nationwide network of book buyers who would purchase Real Marriage at locations likely to generate reportable sales for various best-seller lists, including the New York Times list. Mars Hill [church] also paid for the purchase of at least 11,000 books ranging in price from $18.62 to $20.70, depending on whether the books were purchased individually or in bulk."

So, all I need is to (finally) finish my novel, pony up $200k and voila! I'm a NYT bestselling author! At least for a week ...

Filigree · Mar 7, 2014

What's really interesting is to read the comments on the original article. Largely from Driscoll's supporters, the comments swing immediately into character attacks of the article writer (who has documented other instances of Driscoll's possible feet-of-clay). Then they start offering excuses that any means justify a Christian end. Or 'everybody else is doing it'.

All so another prosperity gospel pastor can put 'NY Times Bestseller' on his bio.

gothicangel · Mar 8, 2014

I don't see the point. Okay, you get to have 'NY bestseller' on the jacket (I've never bought a book because it was a bestseller.) In your heart you know its a lie, and if I become a bestseller I want it to be because people liked my books enough to buy them, rather than being dumb enough pay 200k for something most readers ignore anyway.

mccardey · Mar 8, 2014

Honestly, if I was throwing that kind of money around, it wouldn't be for a place on a bestseller list.

I'd buy chickens. Lots of chickens.

LOTLOF · Mar 8, 2014

If you are willing to shell out $200,000 of your own money just to be able to say you wrote a NY Times best seller, eh, I don't have an issue. If the person had instead spent all that on a marketing campaign that created enough buzz to get the same result I wouldn't see it as any better or worse.

JournoWriter · Mar 8, 2014

Interestingly, Bill Adler supposedly did this, too. Last paragraph of his obituary: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/04/b...-editor-and-compiler-of-books-dies-at-84.html

Ken · Mar 8, 2014

Don't know if this is just a rumor, but it's said that L Ron Hubbard did a version of this. He, "bought lots of copies of Dianetics to make it a bestseller." The rest is history. Sometimes crime does pay, sad to say. (Again. This may be myth.)

Jamesaritchie · Mar 8, 2014

mccardey said:
Honestly, if I was throwing that kind of money around, it wouldn't be for a place on a bestseller list.

I'd buy chickens. Lots of chickens.

Not me. I prefer turkeys.

Jamesaritchie · Mar 8, 2014

It's his money, but why spend it on something that's completely meaningless? I understand it when someone buys a five hundred million lottery, but buying your way onto the NYTBL is about the most pointless thing I've ever heard of.

It just makes people pity him.

Jamesaritchie · Mar 8, 2014

Ken said:
Don't know if this is just a rumor, but it's said that L Ron Hubbard did a version of this. He, "bought lots of copies of Dianetics to make it a bestseller." The rest is history. Sometimes crime does pay, sad to say. (Again. This may be myth.)

He may have, but he didn't need to. Everyone I knew wanted a copy of that blasted book from the moment he released it. I think more want it to use against him than anything, but it was amazing.

bearilou · Mar 8, 2014

mccardey said:
Honestly, if I was throwing that kind of money around, it wouldn't be for a place on a bestseller list.

I'd buy chickens. Lots of chickens.

That's what I like about you, you think ahead.

I'll throw my goats into that and we are well on our way to be set if the world goes to hell tomorrow.

slhuang · Mar 8, 2014

I've seen this before. The point, as I recall, is to get the bestseller status to launch more lucrative things like speaking tours and such, or to give one "qualified expert" status for other reasons. It's mainly done by nonfiction authors, as I understand.

Which makes it terribly skeevy, IMHO. If a fiction author did it just to say she hit the bestseller list, whatever. But that's not usually the purpose, as I understand it.

CrastersBabies · Mar 8, 2014

Feh, I dunno. Bestsellers can still suck the pie. If people want to blow their funds on this, what do I Care? I still buy the same way--get my chapter experts where I can, or read a chapter standing in Barnes and Noble. If it's epic fail, I won't buy.

If others are completely seduced by this sort of thing, hmmm, I guess that's not my problem. Maybe they're stuck with a crap book. Maybe they find the book of their dreams.

Filigree · Mar 8, 2014

One of the major questions here is whether Driscoll paid RSI out of his own pocket or used Mars Hill church funds. From the alleged paper trail in the original article, Mars Hill high-up staff knew about this. Granted, most of the church members who commented (on the article) seemed to support it as a legitimate use of funds. (I can think of a lot more good that could have been done with it.)

Jamesaritchie · Mar 8, 2014

Filigree said:
(I can think of a lot more good that could have been done with it.)

You and me both.

Arcadia Divine · Mar 8, 2014

I would think that while 200k (or so) may get you a spot at the top of the NY Times best seller list, it's the people that will decide if they want to read your book. Personally, if I spent 200k to get that top spot but not enough people liked my story anyway then I just wasted my hard earned money.

Cyia · Mar 8, 2014

This is nothing new. There's a well-known, long-deceased sci-fi writer whose fans have a... shall we call it religious fervor... when it comes to his books. There's a veritable army of adherents who routinely (allegedly, etc.) buy up copies of said books, return them to their distribution warehouses, use the same books to restock the shelves they just emptied. Lather, rinse, repeat. It keeps the books in circulation, and gives the appearance of popularity.

(Not that the books don't have legit readers, or plenty of curious eyes due to the author's name, but...)

Jamesaritchie · Mar 8, 2014

I did know a writer who spent around 50K to promote his book, but he never even considered that it might land the book on a bestseller list. He thought he had a message that a lot of people needed to hear, wanted to hear, and he spend the money in order to get books where they were needed. At least half the money was used to send books to poverty stricken areas in Africa where, amazingly, books were wanted as much as food. I have no problem with this.

I've spent a fair amount of money (Nowhere near 50K) sending books, my own and others, to similar places.

But if the object really is to buy your way onto the NYTBL, I do think the money could have been much better spent.

alexaherself · Mar 9, 2014

juniper said:
This original source link http://www.worldmag.com/2014/03/unreal_sales_for_driscoll_s_real_marriage
says: "ResultSource [the promotions firm] received a fee of $25,000 to coordinate a nationwide network of book buyers who would purchase Real Marriage at locations likely to generate reportable sales for various best-seller lists, including the New York Times list.

The "comments" below it are interesting reading, too: the flummery and posturing of some of the author's supporters, apparently in an attempt to make out that this was (somehow?!) something other than a flagrant attempt to manipulate rankings for purely deceptive purposes, are quite extraordinary.

jjdebenedictis · Mar 9, 2014

I view it the way I view posting fake reviews of a book.

It's an attempt to manipulate the public's perception of how well a book is being received. My assumption is it's done in order to dupe other people into buying a book. I consider it a type of fraud; it's a type of false advertising.

If they're doing it for prestige, then it's still a fraud, but it's one I'm less inclined to be furious about, because some narcissist wanting to strut around and claim authority s/he doesn't have doesn't hurt people quite as much as taking their money for a shoddy product does.

Kylabelle · Mar 9, 2014

jjdebenedictis said:
I view it the way I view posting fake reviews of a book.

It's an attempt to manipulate the public's perception of how well a book is being received. My assumption is it's done in order to dupe other people into buying a book. I consider it a type of fraud; it's a type of false advertising.

If they're doing it for prestige, then it's still a fraud, but it's one I'm less inclined to be furious about, because some narcissist wanting to strut around and claim authority s/he doesn't have doesn't hurt people quite as much as taking their money for a shoddy product does.

QFT.

And also, this practice of buying a position on the list makes the "bestseller list" meaningless. It no longer lists bestsellers, after all, if an author can simply pay for a slot.

Cosy_Mimi · Mar 9, 2014

Money can't buy credibility.

After actually having a nosy at the amazon reviews : whaaaat?! Basically an irrelevant, outdated, archaic preaching of 'christian relationships' and apparently by 'christian' this means that men should reign supreme over women? . yuck

Its frightening that people with such ignorant views are given platforms like this just by waving a few dollars.

Jamesaritchie · Mar 9, 2014

Cosy_Mimi said:
Money can't buy credibility.

.

From informed people, maybe, but how many who pick a book up that's on the NYTBL are going to know or care that this happened? Enough money can buy darned near anything from the general public, including credibility.

It does, every election season.

alexaherself · Mar 9, 2014

Cosy_Mimi said:
apparently by 'christian' this means that men should reign supreme over women? . yuck

Let's be magnanimously ecumenical about it: that's actually true of many other religions, too ...

Cosy_Mimi · Mar 9, 2014

alexaherself said:
Let's be magnanimously ecumenical about it: that's actually true of many other religions, too ...

Agreed. But its my view that every 'controlled' religion is flawed and irrelevant. All about power and control, not truth

Buying your way onto NY Times bestseller list

juniper

Always curious.

Filigree

Mildly Disturbing

gothicangel

Toughen up.

mccardey

LOTLOF

JournoWriter

Just the facts, please

Ken

Jamesaritchie

Jamesaritchie

Jamesaritchie

bearilou

DenturePunk writer

slhuang

Inappropriately math-oriented.

CrastersBabies

Burninator!

Filigree

Mildly Disturbing

Jamesaritchie

Arcadia Divine

Cyia

Rewriting My Destiny

Jamesaritchie

alexaherself

Wordsmith and shoechick

jjdebenedictis

is watching you via her avatar

Kylabelle

unaccounted for

Cosy_Mimi

Jamesaritchie

alexaherself

Wordsmith and shoechick

Cosy_Mimi