POV of the opposite gender

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maestrowork

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Can anyone suggest a few books written by female authors, about male protagonists and targeting male readers (genres are fine)? Or female authors writing as males...

Thanks.
 

Arden

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maestrowork said:
Can anyone suggest a few books written by female authors, about male protagonists and targeting male readers (genres are fine)? Or female authors writing as males...

Thanks.

I really only know about the mystery genre... I've never seen a mystery genre book by a female author that targeted male readers exclusively. The best in the genre seem to target BOTH a male and female audience as opposed to the strictly female audience many female writers garner (like, for example, Evanovich)

The best authors who capture both? Male readers pick up Carol O'Connell's stuff.

Lisa Gardner's book, Alone, is about a male police sniper... she almost gets as close to macho aspects of Lee Child (but not quite -- he's in a class of his own).

I've never read a female author that can get anywhere near the absolute maleness of Sandford or Vachss or Burke or Ellroy or, to be honest, Child.

Authors who have managed to attract both genders enthusiastically: of course, Sue Grafton, Dennis Lehane and Jonathon Kellerman.

Robert Crais can write from the perspective of a female protagonist as well as a male. His recent book, The Two Minute Rule, let's him show his stuff. So can Michael Connelly.

From my perspective, a lot of female writers who have male protagonists make them too "sensitive", like J.A. Jance's protagonists, for example.

The best way for a female author to get away with a male protagonist is to use a male pseudonym in my opinion. I certainly know that I won't have got the writing gigs deal that I did if anyone suspected my true gender.

There are exceptions, of course; and I, for one, would love to hear about them so that I might read the books.

I have an unfair but inherent distrust of males trying to write from a female's point of view. It seldom works. The exceptions are in the classics, of course -- old D.H. Lawrence sure pulled it off.

It's an interesting question... why do you ask?
 

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Hmm, these are just a few I see on my bookshelf.

Females writing from male POV:

Susanna Clarke - Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell
Audrey Niffenegger - The Time Traveler's Wife (both male & female POV)
Pearl S. Buck - The Good Earth

Males writing female POV:

Arthur Golden - Memoirs of a Geisha
Wally Lamb - She's Come Undone

Hope that helps! Kim
 

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maestrowork said:
Can anyone suggest a few books written by female authors, about male protagonists and targeting male readers (genres are fine)? Or female authors writing as males...

Thanks.

(Mystery): Agatha Christie wrote many books with a male POV - 'The Pale Horse' is my favourite. J D Robb's books share the narrative between the male and female protagonists (starting with 'Naked in Death').

(Fantasy and SF): Hugo and Nebula Winner Lois McMaster Bujold. Her Miles Vorkosigan SF series are all written from a male perspective, but it might be best to start with 'The Curse of Chalion' (fantasy) which is a brilliant and very masculine narrative (and a favourite with most of the male friends I could persuade to read it). Some others in the genre...Martha Wells. Most of her books share narrative between the principle male and female characters, 'The Element of Fire' and 'Death of the Necromancer' (both fantasy) being two. And the classic would probably be Ursula K Le Guin, who is really brilliant at this: 'Left Hand of Darkness' and 'The Dispossessed' (SF) and The Earthsea Series (fantasy) are all transforming reads.

(Historical): Georgette Heyer wrote several books from a male POV, some of my favourites are: 'The Foundling' and 'False Colours'. Dorothy Dunnett also does this with her series charting the life of Francis Crawford of Lymond, starting with 'The Game of Kings'.
 

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The very first examples that came to mind are JK Rowling (woman writing male), me (women writing gay men for both female and gay male markets) and Thomans Kaplan-Mayfield (man writing female hero) but scanning my bookshelf it seems that writers aren't particualr pre-disposed to write same gender protagonists except in certain genres.
 

maestrowork

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Thank you. Keep them coming.

My other question is: What makes writing "masculine" or "feminine"? Granted, it depends on the genres -- mystery, for example, seem to always lean toward "masculine" writing and romance/love story seem to have feminine quality.
 

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Do you mean what stereotypically real men and woman are 'meant' to be (by which defintion I am basically a man without the groinal protruberance -- despite totally feeling like I am actually a woman) or actual typical differences between make and females writer's styles within the same genre?

There is an online 'gender detector' that works of writing samples and it says I am a man ever time.
 

maestrowork

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I think certain generalizations and stereotypes are inevitable. I mean, chances are books meant for males, for example, are read by many women, and vice versa. But still, when we say such and such a book is very "masculine" or "feminine" -- what do we mean? What kind of qualities make it masculine or feminine? How do the readers identify?
 

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I am just bitter at having to buy my regular magazines from the 'Men's interest' section at Borders. And no, not booby magazines--seed, UFO, skeptical enquirer etc.

I am stilltrying to thing of an effective protest--perhaps a letter to the magazines themselves saying I regret I can no longer buy them because it pisses me off too much.
 

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To see an exaggeration of the M/F stereotypes, just for greater clarity about them, look at children's books from about 1900. The Five Little Peppers and Elsie Dinsmore were series for girls. They're all about family relationships and being good. The chief virtues are charity and helpfulness. Polly Pepper is forever feeling guilty over some minuscule failure to be 100% nice to somebody. Tom Swift was for boys. It promoted initiative and independence. The characters had exciting adventures.
 

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maestrowork said:
Thank you. Keep them coming.

My other question is: What makes writing "masculine" or "feminine"? Granted, it depends on the genres -- mystery, for example, seem to always lean toward "masculine" writing and romance/love story seem to have feminine quality.

Hmmm. If this is your area of interest it would definitely be worth reading the Miles Vorkosigan series by Lois McMaster Bujold. Her writing style might be described as typically 'masculine' (action based, concise, lots of explosions, graphic violence) but the lead male character himself has several qualities which might be called traditionally 'female' such as an obsession with his own appearance and a tendency to endlessly self-examine his emotions. I find this contrast fascinating myself.
 

maestrowork

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Zolah said:
Her writing style might be described as typically 'masculine' (action based, concise, lots of explosions, graphic violence) but the lead male character himself has several qualities which might be called traditionally 'female' such as an obsession with his own appearance and a tendency to endlessly self-examine his emotions. I find this contrast fascinating myself.

Sounds like something I typically write.
 

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maestrowork said:
Sounds like something I typically write.

The 'action based, concise, lots of explosions, graphic violence' part, or the '[he has] an obsession with his own appearance and a tendency to endlessly self-examine his emotions' part? There's something of a contrast there...;)
 

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Hunter's Moon, by . . . well, me. Heh. First person male POV.

Whiskey Sour, by JA Konrath (another AWer). Just read it. Excellent first person female POV, blended with third person from the villain. Sort of Wambaugh-esque. Very good procedural mystery!
 

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Any of Gregory Maguire's books (Wicked, Confessions of an Ugly Stepsister, Mirror Mirror, etc...). I haven't read them all, but I'm pretty sure his protagonists are always female.
 

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maestrowork said:
Can anyone suggest a few books written by female authors, about male protagonists and targeting male readers (genres are fine)? Or female authors writing as males...

Thanks.

The Underpainter by Jane Urquahart
 

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veinglory said:
without the groinal protruberance

So that's what it's called! I can't wait for the opportunity to call some jerk "a real groinal protruberance head."
 

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veinglory said:
There is an online 'gender detector' that works of writing samples and it says I am a man ever time.

I've done this both for a work of creative writing AND my blog entries some time in the past, and I got a male detection, as well.

I guess it's kinda fitting as one of my online names, back in the day, made everyone who came in contact with me think I was male. I changed it to something more feminine (not the name I use here) in order to show that YES, I am a woman.

So, I'm not sure what to think. I'll have to go through my books tomorrow and post a few. At the moment, I can't think of any off the top of my head that fits the question asked. But, I'll find it tomorrow!
 

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maestrowork said:
My other question is: What makes writing "masculine" or "feminine"? Granted, it depends on the genres -- mystery, for example, seem to always lean toward "masculine" writing and romance/love story seem to have feminine quality.

This is an interesting discussion. I'm co-writing a book for women readers in a traditionally male-oriented genre--thriller. I think there are women out there who would like a action-adventure thriller written for them. Over the course of it, I've really learned a lot about the differences in how it plays out in the story--particularly since I have an all male critique group.

The biggest difference between the two types of books is that the women's book is strongly focused on the relationships. Romance is a natural fit since that's what the story is about. Mystery, however, has a number of books that are obviously for women. There's a small town series that's about the amateur detective's relationships with all the people and that's how she solves the crimes; a needlepoint mystery series where they have socializing in the needlepoint store. There's also a fantasy series where the heroine cares greatly for her people, enough to sacrifice her own success to help--and never consummate a love relationship for the same reason. The men's books seem to focus more on the events or the "toys." The ones I see in my genre are about politics or the military or technology.

Structure also varies. In a lot of the guy books in my genre, it starts out with the hero going into fix something. In a lot of the women-oriented books, something happens and the women gets involved. I look at suspense, and nearly all of those books start out with a woman character who gets sucked into a situation because of something that happens to her. In a serial killer book, she might get involved because she's the next victim. In a more traditional male-oriented book, the hero is a detective trying to catch the guy--fix the problem.

Even word choices make a difference for the genders. Our book is set during the Civil War. If we use a male POV, we do mention the type of gun when appropriate and whether it's a pistol or revolver. But if it's the heroine's POV, it's a gun, plain and simple. The women readers we're targeting aren't going to care if it's a Pinfire, a Pettingill, a pistol, or a revolver--it looks like a gun and acts like a gun, so it's a gun. The word choices haven't worked well for all of the male members. Some of the wording specifically for women particularly offended one guy, and he reacted very hostilely (this was a person who huffed about why anyone would write a book for women).

Since it is during the Civil War, we talk about the clothes because those readers will expect it. "Dress-o-Babble." Not a lot (it's referenced maybe twice), but the readers will expect it. We even work the uniforms the soldiers wear for the same reason. I've seen very few male-oriented books that don't mention the characters were even wearing clothes.

Someone else mentioned Sue Grafton's books as crossing between the genders. I've always found her character far too masculine, as are the stories. But recently, a male reviewer declared that the latest book had gone to the girls--it seems Ms. Grafton mentioned make-up and clothes in the book (given how the books are, it's probably one or two lines with Kinsey's wry humor). Laurell K. Hamilton took flak on her books for mentioning the clothes, too.
 

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I have tried to resist this topic, but I can't.

People have sex; words have gender, and trust me, gender is no substitute for sex.

If you are speaking of people as people (versus, for instance, human behaviors in a group of humans) you are speaking of sex, not gender.
 

maestrowork

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gen·der
n.

1. The sex of an individual, male or female, based on reproductive anatomy.
2. Sexual identity, especially in relation to society or culture.

Sex
4: the properties that distinguish organisms on the basis of their reproductive roles; "she didn't want to know the sex of the foetus" [syn: gender, sexuality]

A person can be of certain "gender" that is different than their "sex." But it's gender (sexual identity) we're talking about here.
 
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