Recovered from Google’s cache.
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06-24-2006, 07:01 PM
P.H.Delarran
..lays or lies?
people lie down and things lay down? the dogs lies on the sidewalk and the water bowl lays next to him?
I will lie down and nap after I lay down the newspaper for my project?
rule please?
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07:02 PM
Forbidden Snowflake
I thought it is:
I lay the newspaper down.
But the newspaper lies next to the dog.
Not? I never knew either. I hate these words. With passion.
If I lay you down, wouldn't I lay you down and not lie you down, even though you're not a thing but a person?
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07:27 PM
Shwebb
I think that "lie" is active verb, "lay" is passive verb usage.
You can lay yourself down, or you can lie down.
But you'll need someone else to conjugate them for you; I don't always remember which word goes with which verb.
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07:28 PM
Forbidden Snowflake
So you are layed down and something is layed down but you lie down or something lies down?
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07:30 PM
rekirts
That lie/lay thing is further complicated by the fact that lay forms the past tense of lie as well as being the present tense of lay.
Let me take a stab at this. The verb lie (lay) (lain) does not take a direct object. The verb lay (laid) (laid) does take a direct object. In other words, you lie down, but you lay something else down.
I want to lie down and lay my head on a pillow. Yesterday I lay down and laid my head on a pillow. Many times in the past I have lain down and laid my head on a pillow. (Head being the object in this case.)
Boy, that's starting to sound like a good idea. This stuff is giving me a headache.
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07:36 PM
Forbidden Snowflake
So, if I get you right, I was right when I first said, you lay the newspaper down, but the newspaper lies next to the dog?
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07:41 PM
rekirts
Yep.
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08:42 PM
maestrowork
I lie down. I lay down (past tense).
I lay the paper down. I laid the paper down (past tense).
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08:58 PM
Puma
I was taught that animate objects lie and inanimate objects lay. However, rules from handbooks are: In present tense lie, lay; past tense - lie = lay, lay = laid; present participle lie = lying, lay = laying; past participle lie = lain, lay = laid. (Source Harbrace College Handbook)
"Lie is an intransitive verb and means to recline."
"Lay is a transitive verb meaning to put or place something. It always takes an object." A quick check for which one to use is to replace lie or lay in your sentence with the correct form of the verb place. If place works, the word should be lay. (Source Woolley Scott Bracher College Handbook)
Hope this helps. Puma
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10:17 PM
reph
Inanimate objects can lie. The newspaper lies next to the dog. A sheet of paper with curled edges won't lie flat.
Animate objects can lay something down. The dealer lays five cards on the table.
All the verbs in rekirts's examples are correct.
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10:32 PM
pianoman5
Bob Dylan has a lot to answer for. People were just starting to get it straight in their heads when he wrote:
'Lay, lady, lay
lay across my big brass bed'
Poetic licence, indeed.
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10:39 PM
Puma
Reph - yes animate objects can lay something down but the object doing the laying (your cards) are inanimate. On the newspaper - is it reclining or was it placed there? Puma
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11:27 PM
reph
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11:28 PM
P.H.Delarran
Dang, my head is spinning. Thank you all for the clarification,(?) I'm sure I will refer back many times.
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06-25-2006, 12:03 AM
My-Immortal
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12:09 AM
P.H.Delarran
Me too- neither I nor anything I write about will ever again lie down, lay near, be lain, laying, or laid. (yikes!)
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03:07 AM
reph
[Heading:] It's simple, really
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To lay is to deposit. You can't just lay, period; you have to lay something. Now I lay me down to sleep. A hen lays eggs.
To lie is to be still, on a surface. You can't lie a thing; you can only lie, period. I lie in bed all night. The hen's eggs lie in a nest.
Anyone want a mnemonic?
Lay, lay, put away.
Lie, lie, face the sky.
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05:47 AM
P.H.Delarran
ok, Thanks Reph..that's much easier to grasp-simple does it for me.
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06-24-2006, 07:01 PM
P.H.Delarran
..lays or lies?
people lie down and things lay down? the dogs lies on the sidewalk and the water bowl lays next to him?
I will lie down and nap after I lay down the newspaper for my project?
rule please?
__________________
07:02 PM
Forbidden Snowflake
I thought it is:
I lay the newspaper down.
But the newspaper lies next to the dog.
Not? I never knew either. I hate these words. With passion.
If I lay you down, wouldn't I lay you down and not lie you down, even though you're not a thing but a person?
__________________
07:27 PM
Shwebb
I think that "lie" is active verb, "lay" is passive verb usage.
You can lay yourself down, or you can lie down.
But you'll need someone else to conjugate them for you; I don't always remember which word goes with which verb.
__________________
07:28 PM
Forbidden Snowflake
So you are layed down and something is layed down but you lie down or something lies down?
__________________
07:30 PM
rekirts
That lie/lay thing is further complicated by the fact that lay forms the past tense of lie as well as being the present tense of lay.
Let me take a stab at this. The verb lie (lay) (lain) does not take a direct object. The verb lay (laid) (laid) does take a direct object. In other words, you lie down, but you lay something else down.
I want to lie down and lay my head on a pillow. Yesterday I lay down and laid my head on a pillow. Many times in the past I have lain down and laid my head on a pillow. (Head being the object in this case.)
Boy, that's starting to sound like a good idea. This stuff is giving me a headache.
__________________
07:36 PM
Forbidden Snowflake
So, if I get you right, I was right when I first said, you lay the newspaper down, but the newspaper lies next to the dog?
__________________
07:41 PM
rekirts
Yep.
__________________
08:42 PM
maestrowork
I lie down. I lay down (past tense).
I lay the paper down. I laid the paper down (past tense).
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08:58 PM
Puma
I was taught that animate objects lie and inanimate objects lay. However, rules from handbooks are: In present tense lie, lay; past tense - lie = lay, lay = laid; present participle lie = lying, lay = laying; past participle lie = lain, lay = laid. (Source Harbrace College Handbook)
"Lie is an intransitive verb and means to recline."
"Lay is a transitive verb meaning to put or place something. It always takes an object." A quick check for which one to use is to replace lie or lay in your sentence with the correct form of the verb place. If place works, the word should be lay. (Source Woolley Scott Bracher College Handbook)
Hope this helps. Puma
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10:17 PM
reph
That was too broad a generalization.Puma said:I was taught that animate objects lie and inanimate objects lay.
Inanimate objects can lie. The newspaper lies next to the dog. A sheet of paper with curled edges won't lie flat.
Animate objects can lay something down. The dealer lays five cards on the table.
All the verbs in rekirts's examples are correct.
_________________
10:32 PM
pianoman5
Bob Dylan has a lot to answer for. People were just starting to get it straight in their heads when he wrote:
'Lay, lady, lay
lay across my big brass bed'
Poetic licence, indeed.
_________________
10:39 PM
Puma
Reph - yes animate objects can lay something down but the object doing the laying (your cards) are inanimate. On the newspaper - is it reclining or was it placed there? Puma
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11:27 PM
reph
Well, the cards don't do the laying; the dealer does. The dealer lays cards on the table. The cards lie (they rest) on the table until picked up.Puma said:Reph - yes animate objects can lay something down but the object doing the laying (your cards) are inanimate.
It could have been placed (laid) there, or the wind could have blown it there, or it could have fallen off a table and landed there, or maybe it was dropped. To lie means to rest on a surface. It doesn't matter whether you're a sleeping person or the six of diamonds, and it doesn't matter whether you got onto the surface under your own steam.On the newspaper - is it reclining or was it placed there?
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11:28 PM
P.H.Delarran
Dang, my head is spinning. Thank you all for the clarification,(?) I'm sure I will refer back many times.
__________________
06-25-2006, 12:03 AM
My-Immortal
Mine too. I think I need to place myself in a horizontal position until the headache goes away.P.H.Delarran said:Dang, my head is spinning.
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12:09 AM
P.H.Delarran
Me too- neither I nor anything I write about will ever again lie down, lay near, be lain, laying, or laid. (yikes!)
__________________
03:07 AM
reph
[Heading:] It's simple, really
------------------------------------------------------------------------
To lay is to deposit. You can't just lay, period; you have to lay something. Now I lay me down to sleep. A hen lays eggs.
To lie is to be still, on a surface. You can't lie a thing; you can only lie, period. I lie in bed all night. The hen's eggs lie in a nest.
Anyone want a mnemonic?
Lay, lay, put away.
Lie, lie, face the sky.
_________________
05:47 AM
P.H.Delarran
ok, Thanks Reph..that's much easier to grasp-simple does it for me.