Minimum length for New Writer?

From what I learnt, 80'000 is a good amount. I think 70'000 works too and it shouldn't be longer than 100'000 if you haven't been previously published.

Minimum Length for a New Writer?

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Sorry, I can't really say--that header set off my Mae West chip and now my keyboard is all sticky from the coffee I spritzed on it.

Now is not the time to concern yourself with length. (tee-hee, Mae West)
Write this book. Then write another. Go all out and write a third. Write well, and the book can be as long as you want, or as short. Just put the whole story in there, and leave out the boring parts.

You may end up with a novella. You may end up with a trilogy. But the very first thing you should focus on is the STORY. If you're just starting your first novel, word count requirements shouldn't even come into play. Save that for the headache of querying agents and submitting to publishers. There's a lot of work to do between now and then.

Here's a nifty trick I leanred...on Amazon, you can find novels in the same genre you're writing in. Click on the ones that have "Search Inside!" tags, and click on 'text stats'. It will show you the word count of the novel. Another place to look for word counts are on the publisher's websites, if they have submission guidelines listed, they'll put word count requirements on there. Like Forbidden Snowflake said, 80-100k is a good goal, but don't use that to inflate a story, and don't stop too soon because you've hit 100k.

Siddow said:

Here's a nifty trick I leanred...on Amazon, you can find novels in the same genre you're writing in. Click on the ones that have "Search Inside!" tags, and click on 'text stats'. It will show you the word count of the novel.

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Wow. That *is* a nifty trick. I just discovered that the fanfic novel I just wrapped up is almost twice the size of Gone With the Wind.

Hi Ben.

Just have fun and write until the story is completed. When the story is told and you reach the end determines its length. Whatever length it comes out at the chances are you'll then prune it in revisions and editing. Or you may just start to write another - it's usually much better than the first.

But if it's your first novel I wouldn't worry in the least about word count. Mind you, it's fun to have a peek now and then just to see it growing.

Just enjoy writing it and if you reach the End give yourself a big pat on the back. Actually finishing a novel is a huge achievement in itself and one of which you would be justifiably proud regardless of its quality.

Bufty said:

Just have fun and write until the story is completed. When the story is told and you reach the end determines its length. Whatever length it comes out at the chances are you'll then prune it in revisions and editing. Or you may just start to write another - it's usually much better than the first.

But if it's your first novel I wouldn't worry in the least about word count. Mind you, it's fun to have a peek now and then just to see it growing.

.

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I disagree with that. Especially at first, it's too easy to let yourself be over-wordy. So having a plan, that the story has to be wrapped up in 100K words, is always good to have in mind as you tell the story, IMHO. Yes, you will usually trim anyway. But I think it's good to have a goal in mind. 100K. 400 ms pages. (at the standard 250 WPP method.) Try not to overshoot that too much.

Minimum length...well, for a sci fi, I'm not sure about the particulars of that genre. But I'd guess at about 80K?

Susan G., who likes to have a plan.

80-120K seems like the norm. Technically speaking, anything from 50K and up is considered "novel." Some publishers want specific lengths, but I think you can't really go wrong with 80-120K. Do write the story first and if it falls under 50-60K, then you know you have probably a novella (you will most likely trim at least 20% from your first draft).

Length

Always worry about length. Length is a choice, and length can determine whether or not anyone, agent or editor, will even look at the novel.

Check similar books on Amazon, but be careful. Many of these will not be by first time writers, and you may find yourself writing too long.

Best to check with several publishers who want novels in your genre. Read their guidelines. Write/edit your novel so it fits within these guidelines.

100K is the averge length of novels out there, and most publishers want from 80-120K for most genres. It's real tough to go wrong is your novel falls within this range, but always check.

First novel or not, there's no reason at all to make the job of selling much, much tougher by writing too short or too long.

Sci-fi length?

I've seen somewhere that the length of sci-fi manuscripts is usually much shorter than the norm for other genres (60K+ vs app 100K). Is that true? Puma

I continue to be mystified at why so many people seem mystified by the issue of book length. Get thee to thy local bookstore, pick up any standard-sized novel in your favored genre, and perform a quick word count. It's not hard to do. Find a standard-looking page in the interior of the book, count the words, and multiply by the number of pages. You'll almost certainly come up with a figure of 80,000-100,000 (if you can do the math), which is exactly what you'll find out if you look at various threads on this site, on other sites, in Writer's Market guides, and many other places. Do some simple research. Anyone still asking this particular question probably needs to learn a lot of other basic useful stuff as well.

caw.

A great story will be published, whether 80k, 100k, or even 50k in length. The Old Man and the Sea is a bit over 40k, and still considered a novel. Okay, a few might say novella, but wtf? To paraphrase the old political slogan, "It's the story, dummy."

(Hard Case Crime is soliciting manuscripts by famous and unknowns of 60k length)

MikeAngel said:

A great story will be published, whether 80k, 100k, or even 50k in length. The Old Man and the Sea is a bit over 40k, and still considered a novel. Okay, a few might say novella, but wtf? To paraphrase the old political slogan, "It's the story, dummy."

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A little misleading. The Old Man and the Sea was published (more than a half-century ago) first in one of the leading magazines of the day, as I recall, as a contracted work. Only afterward did it appear as an individual volume. And Hemingway was already the most famous fiction writer in the U.S., either having won or on the verge of winning the Nobel Prize for Literature. Hardly an example applicable to an unpublished writer today.

It matters little whether you call it a novel or a novella. But the sentiment to concentrate on the story and worry about length (and marketing) later is sound advice. Just be aware that it's difficult to publish novellas in the standard manner these days, I suspect more so than in Hemingway's day.

caw.

MikeAngel said:

A great story will be published, whether 80k, 100k, or even 50k in length. The Old Man and the Sea is a bit over 40k, and still considered a novel. Okay, a few might say novella, but wtf? To paraphrase the old political slogan, "It's the story, dummy."

(Hard Case Crime is soliciting manuscripts by famous and unknowns of 60k length)

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A great story will probably be published somewhere, someway. Especially if yur last name is Hemingway, and you're already world famous. But one the wrong length will be automatically eliminated by many agents and many publishers.

Now, a novel is actually 30K and up in most genres, and usually 40K and up in SF, but this matters not in the least. What always matters is what publishers want, and what they do not want.

Even if it's true that something good enough will be published somehwre by someone, it's still not very bright to put needless roadblocks in your path, to write something many publishers and many agents will reject out of hand, or to believe that as a first time writer you're going to be treated like a Nobel Prize winner.

I agree that shooting for the publisher's requirements is sensible but I made my original comments re write the story and forget about word count because the original poster of this question, and to whom my reply was aimed, is a youngster starting his first novel.

To me, rightly or wrongly, it seems highly unlikely that such a first time writer would be able to construct the novel so that it fitted a particular requirement.

Bufty said:

I agree that shooting for the publisher's requirements is sensible but I made my original comments re write the story and forget about word count because the original poster of this question, and to whom my reply was aimed, is a youngster starting his first novel.

To me, rightly or wrongly, it seems highly unlikely that such a first time writer would be able to construct the novel so that it fitted a particular requirement.

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It's not that difficult. First time writers do it all the time. Most first time writers go way over or way under because they aren't trying to hit a certain length. And a first time writer should certain come close enough to guidelines to add or cut some in the final draft.

80-120K is a big range, and if you're actually aiming at 100K, there's no reason not to come in close enough to count.

Bufty said:

I agree that shooting for the publisher's requirements is sensible but I made my original comments re write the story and forget about word count because the original poster of this question, and to whom my reply was aimed, is a youngster starting his first novel.

To me, rightly or wrongly, it seems highly unlikely that such a first time writer would be able to construct the novel so that it fitted a particular requirement.

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Well there was no indication here of his age. We can't guess that based on this post. And why not have him learn to do it "right" the first time out? I think he can manage. If he can manage all the rest of it, making it an acceptable length is doable. I'd say better he learns to make it fit right out of the gate.

Who was that young kid who made a nice splash fairly recently in the SF world?? Wrote a book that, I think, started with an E? Eargorn? Something like that? I can't remember, but I'm sure someone else here knows what the heck I'm trying to say. <G> Help. <G>

He was just a kid, too. He managed quite nicely.

Susan G.

I think you mean Eragon by Christopher Paolini (or something like that).

Can't say if it's any good since I don't read fantasy.

-A.C.

Well there was no indication here of his age.
Susan G.

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One quick click on his profile shows that he's 14.

I stick by my original advice: write the book, worry about length later. Like, several books from now. If Ben is a born writer, length will fix itself. No need to fill a new writer's head with too many rules on the first run out of the gate. Run, young writer. Put down as many words as it takes to tell your story. Have fun with it. When you finish the first draft of your first novel, you will have discovered what you don't know and your noveling education can continue from there.

I think it's really important to relieve the pressure of a first novel. Ben has outlined (which is more than I can say for my first novel). Now Ben needs to get to writing, and nothing but writing. Too many adverbs? That's a second draft concern. Shallow characterization? Second draft! Plot holes? Yep, that's for later, too. A 14 year old who wants to write a novel should be able to do so without bogging himself down with 'rules' in the first draft.

And Ben, prepare yourself to go straight through without looking back until you've reached the end. Don't try to tweak the first chapter fifty times to get it 'just right'. Finish the book. Be proud of it. It's quite a feat.

Siddow said:

One quick click on his profile shows that he's 14.

I stick by my original advice: write the book, worry about length later. Like, several books from now. If Ben is a born writer, length will fix itself. No need to fill a new writer's head with too many rules on the first run out of the gate. Run, young writer. Put down as many words as it takes to tell your story. Have fun with it. When you finish the first draft of your first novel, you will have discovered what you don't know and your noveling education can continue from there.

I think it's really important to relieve the pressure of a first novel. Ben has outlined (which is more than I can say for my first novel). Now Ben needs to get to writing, and nothing but writing. Too many adverbs? That's a second draft concern. Shallow characterization? Second draft! Plot holes? Yep, that's for later, too. A 14 year old who wants to write a novel should be able to do so without bogging himself down with 'rules' in the first draft.

And Ben, prepare yourself to go straight through without looking back until you've reached the end. Don't try to tweak the first chapter fifty times to get it 'just right'. Finish the book. Be proud of it. It's quite a feat.

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I don't think I've ever met a born writer. I know I've never foudn any problem in writing that fixed itself. I have met a lot of writers who spent years and years not getting anywhere because someone told them not to worry about this or that or the other until later.

Well, we've answered his question, anyway. I hope he's writing.

Based on the birthdate in his profile, he's my age and about 4 months younger than me. I hope he is writing.

MikeAngel said:

A great story will be published, whether 80k, 100k, or even 50k in length. The Old Man and the Sea is a bit over 40k, and still considered a novel. Okay, a few might say novella, but wtf? To paraphrase the old political slogan, "It's the story, dummy."

(Hard Case Crime is soliciting manuscripts by famous and unknowns of 60k length)

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Sorry. Old Man and the Sea is a novella. It has never been considered a novel. Besides, Hemingway wasn't a first-time writer when he published that. When you're a known author, ms. length doesn't really matter much. Besides. OMatS was brilliant.

A first-time author should try not to fall too far from the "norm" -- that's not to say you HAVE to do anything. If your story is 40K, then it is 40K. However, to disregard convention wisdom when it comes to publishing would be foolish. An agent who is looking for a novel ms. would balk at a 40K ms. unless it's really brilliant -- and it's better be EXTREMELY brilliant to fall outside of the curve.

You don't want too long a novel as a first, because you are not a known commodity.

Keep it under a hundred, and over seventy-five to be safe.

Having a book of mega word count requires you to have a readership.

Having a finished M.S. of say 50 to 60 thou isn't acceptable in most cases. You however may find a few small houses who would print such a length.

If you write the last word at 50 thou, you've run through your plot line and story idea too quickly, racing toward the end. One would have to expand scenes and add characters to bolster word count.I've found by writing the last chapter first, I can get it out of my mind and concentrate on the rest of the story.

At any rate, I've been told here to make it at least 75,000, and no more than a 100 thou for a first stab at selling.