How could the editor have missed this? - Page 3

James D. Macdonald · 01-15-2007, 06:16 AM

"I asked..." puts it in first person. In first person even narrative is privileged as dialog.

Elektra · 01-15-2007, 06:17 AM

Ah, I see.

aruna · 01-15-2007, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elektra

This is just a guess, but I'm betting her editor has been to the Caribbrean at some point, which makes understanding the passage a lot easier (one of the chief tourist attractions there is to go to the market places and haggle for overpriced souvenirs).

Hey, I'm from the Carbbean! The key word here is "overpriced", and I guess that';s what threw me. Both in my part of the world and in India, the local dealer names a price that is indeed ridiculously high, thinking the tourist is loaded. That's why I took the character's "ridiculous" literally the first time around. I don't think I've ever come across a ridiculously LOW price in one of these countries - and that's why if i did, I'd probably grab it and run, not act as this character did. I think one word would have been enough to clarify the issue; such as, "I feigned indignance. 'Ridiculous.' I turned and walked away." That's not dumbing down; it's speaking in unambiguous language.

Once it was explained I immediataly understood.. and that's why it's not fair to say "eight people understood". I understoodeople had come across teh scene in the book, maybe they, like me, would not have immediately grabbed it, and would have had to read it four or five times.

BTW, in the book there is no real lead up to Chinses thing. The first few pages are set in San Francisco. She is only explaining how she got ths coffin, and the scene is a flashback to China. So the reader is not necesarrily thinking "Oh yes, I'm in China".

Quote:

ETA: Unfamiliar words are a different thing. Usually, when the writing is clear, the words can be interpreted and there is no problem. The problem with the original sentence had to do with trying to figure out what the author was trying to say. I don't think having to Google Chinese haggling procedures is what the author wanted the reader to do at that moment.

If I don't know the meaning of a word I can usually understand it intuitively from the context of the other words. I certainly don't run for a dictionary. And I don't want my readers running for dictionaries or to the computer to research stuff in my books. If they do then I have failed.

maddythemad · 01-15-2007, 11:18 AM

I don't think it's a mistake. I read it as the person was willing to pay far more, but she said "ridicuous" to get the seller to make it even cheaper. I think it wasn't the best wording, but I definitely don't think it was a mistake.

Edit: Sorry, I didn't realize that so many people had already answered this. I guess I should read the thread before I go posting, huh?

Philip64 · 01-15-2007, 01:02 PM

It may be unfair to judge a passage out of context, but for my money this is a dreadful passage of writing: it's confusing (I did not understand it first time either) ungainly and only semi-literate. Perhaps that is the point of it. Perhaps the narrator is supposed to be semi-literate. In which case what is the phrase "initial offer" doing in there?

The whole thing reads like a badly phrased exam question in a child's maths test.

Selcaby · 01-16-2007, 03:21 AM

I don't have any problem with the passage. I don't know the context, but I wonder if the author would have described the haggling in so much detail if there wasn't something unusual about it (the vendor naming such a low price). I would guess this is the point, and to me it suggests that he really didn't know the value of what he was selling, and makes me wonder why not. I didn't know about Chinese haggling customs, but I wondered whether the protagonist walks away because she's the kind of person who can't believe in her own good luck, or even has been embarrassed that she thought it was worth so much more (even though she didn't say so).

I can completely see the point of not naming the amounts. First, they don't matter. Second, inflation and other currency changes might make the prices go out of date within a few years.

pdr · 01-16-2007, 05:51 AM

I'm with you, Aruna. I couldn't make head nor tale of it. Sellers name a high price then the buyer haggles it down! Put this way I had to have posters explaining it to sort it out.

ORION · 01-16-2007, 06:04 AM

When you read the whole book (Saving Fish From Drowning) you will realize that the narrator is a dead antiques dealer and she is describing the purchase of a coffin she will eventually be buried in. It is early in the book and sets the stage for us to realize that the character, even though she would be willing to pay much much more, will not give her feelings away to the Chinese farmer who has no clue that he has an item of value.She is very shrewd. If she did not haggle, he would have been highly suspicious and she might not have gotten it at that very, very low price.
That is why you are hearing her inner dialog along with what she actually said to the Farmer. As the narrator she is recounting the purchase to us.
Here in Hawaii there is much haggling in China town and much suspicion if you pay the first price offered.
I do not know how you can criticize one phrase taken out of context in a book.

01-15-2007, 06:16 AM	#51
James D. Macdonald Your Genial Uncle Absolute Sage Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 21,586	"I asked..." puts it in first person. In first person even narrative is privileged as dialog. __________________ Viable Paradise: The Workshop You've Been Looking For

01-15-2007, 06:17 AM	#52
Elektra Don't Call Me Sweetheart Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 916	Ah, I see. __________________ http://www.crapometer.blogspot.com

01-15-2007, 01:02 PM	#55
Philip64 sticking his oar in... Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: London Posts: 90	Awful It may be unfair to judge a passage out of context, but for my money this is a dreadful passage of writing: it's confusing (I did not understand it first time either) ungainly and only semi-literate. Perhaps that is the point of it. Perhaps the narrator is supposed to be semi-literate. In which case what is the phrase "initial offer" doing in there? The whole thing reads like a badly phrased exam question in a child's maths test. Last edited by Philip64; 01-15-2007 at 01:06 PM.

01-16-2007, 05:51 AM	#57
pdr Banned Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Home - but for how long? Posts: 4,260	Confusing! I'm with you, Aruna. I couldn't make head nor tale of it. Sellers name a high price then the buyer haggles it down! Put this way I had to have posters explaining it to sort it out.

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01-15-2007, 11:18 AM	#54
maddythemad practical experience, FTW Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 2,858	I don't think it's a mistake. I read it as the person was willing to pay far more, but she said "ridicuous" to get the seller to make it even cheaper. I think it wasn't the best wording, but I definitely don't think it was a mistake. Edit: Sorry, I didn't realize that so many people had already answered this. I guess I should read the thread before I go posting, huh?

01-16-2007, 03:21 AM	#56
Selcaby Writer of wrongs Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: UK Posts: 347	I don't have any problem with the passage. I don't know the context, but I wonder if the author would have described the haggling in so much detail if there wasn't something unusual about it (the vendor naming such a low price). I would guess this is the point, and to me it suggests that he really didn't know the value of what he was selling, and makes me wonder why not. I didn't know about Chinese haggling customs, but I wondered whether the protagonist walks away because she's the kind of person who can't believe in her own good luck, or even has been embarrassed that she thought it was worth so much more (even though she didn't say so). I can completely see the point of not naming the amounts. First, they don't matter. Second, inflation and other currency changes might make the prices go out of date within a few years.

01-16-2007, 06:04 AM	#58
ORION Sailed away years ago Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Hawaii Posts: 1,996	When you read the whole book (Saving Fish From Drowning) you will realize that the narrator is a dead antiques dealer and she is describing the purchase of a coffin she will eventually be buried in. It is early in the book and sets the stage for us to realize that the character, even though she would be willing to pay much much more, will not give her feelings away to the Chinese farmer who has no clue that he has an item of value.She is very shrewd. If she did not haggle, he would have been highly suspicious and she might not have gotten it at that very, very low price. That is why you are hearing her inner dialog along with what she actually said to the Farmer. As the narrator she is recounting the purchase to us. Here in Hawaii there is much haggling in China town and much suspicion if you pay the first price offered. I do not know how you can criticize one phrase taken out of context in a book.