The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

More important, this isn't the thread for crits of published work at all. The Share Your Work board, or the Novel Writing board might well be more appropriate places.

This thread contains enough extraneous material already.

Many authors are happy with PA because they believe lies and myths they have been told about the publishing industry.I have no idea whether any of those individuals can write well, and to be honest, I don't care. They don't deserve to be lied to. They don't deserve to be scammed. On this point, whether or not they can write well is irrelevant.

Unknownauthor mentioned the feeling of embarrassment authors can experience when they realise what PA really is. I don't think that is something limited to PA. It is, unfortunately, a common emotion felt by victims of professional con artists.

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Another leaf falls. www.publishamerica.com/cg.../11419.htm
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ElizabethFrancis
1/04/2005
19:19:27

Ok…. I am sure this will be my one and only chance to express my disappointment. I am sure after this thread is posted, my password will be evoked.

I signed my contract in February of 2004.

My manuscript was written following Dorchester Publishing guidelines for a Historical Romance Novel, stating that the word count is 100,000… a full-blown Historical Romance Novel.

My QA. Was finished in the beginning of June, and all seemed to be well. The waiting process began, but I assumed it would be well worth the wait.

August 13,2004 I received my $1 and knew everything was about to fall into place. Later that month I received an e-mail from my editor explaining my Dialogue tags were wrong… I immediately went to the message board and began asking for help…everyone was great!! Thank you.

I sent back my revised manuscript on September 16,2004 asking for a return e-mail to reassure me all was well. I received that e-mail later that afternoon, and was relieved.

November rolls around still no proofs…. No response to my e-mail’s asking if everything was ok. Therefore, I posted a thread asking other author’s if this was normal. The thread then disappeared… my user name unregistered… three days later I was aloud back on the message board. I would like to state in my post I never doubted PA… so it was strange to me as to why the thread would be deleted, but nevertheless it was.

I have e-mailed my editor several times… nothing. I even called PA... still nothing. This morning I received an e-mail from the message board telling my picture will be posted, and when I went to the mail-box I had a registered letter from PA… telling me they have now decided not to publish my work…. After a year of waiting…. And now nothing.

OF COURSE IT IS MY FAULT…. I ask you when you receive an e-mail one day telling you everything is great and then nothing… and then a certified letter stating … sorry about your luck.

As I said I will probably be unable to post after this…
Good Luck to all of you… but be careful.

ElizabethFrancis
The Keeper of my Heart
Elizabethfrancis.bravehost.com

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Dee, Becca, would you toss her a life vest?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

'shay

Yes, the difference is they broke different laws.

SimonSays, I think you may have overlooked some of the other allegations against PA. Folks seem to ignore the fact that PA engaged in a deliberate smear campaign against individuals who had nothing to do with them. Then PA blamed one of them for standing too close to the action as their reason for targeting him. It seems to be overlooked quite often that PA also abuses copyright and trademark law. When you consider just how many authors have been pulled in by PA and presumably victimized, it becomes quite apparent that there is a pattern of behavior here on PA's part that bespeaks of criminality across the board.

PA has generated more questions from authors, particularly those new to publishing, than any other business in the publishing industry, so it's only natural for PA to have caused this much discussion. The scope of PA's activity is so great that it's not going to be forgotten until long after the company implodes.

Personally, I feel there is a need for a publisher in the niche that James Macdonald has identified. PA could have profitably filled that niche. However, PA doesn't strike me as the kind of company that is willing to provide honest products and service, so it's quite likely that some other company will soon step in and fill it. When that happens, there will be a publisher to handle many of the current PA authors. For other PA authors, there are already other publishing outlets that they can use. They just have to be willing to switch to those instead of swallowing the bitter deceptions that PA and its sockpuppets are dispensing.

I'm puzzled as to why they have decided not to publish Elizabeth's work, and why they took so long to make that decision. This is the second such decision from PA in a short amount of time.
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Perhaps PA suspects her of being a deliberate plant or infiltrator? She might have asked some questions or made some statements in private that trigger certain responses from PA staff. Or her address might be on the same street name, but in another town, as one of the Evil Eight.

I remember sitting right where all those happy PA authors are sitting now. I had wrote a novel, my first, and allowed a few people to read it before I tried doing anything with it.

My first step was to try my hand at getting an agent, I mean, after all that's what any writer should do, right? I got that book, you know the one that has the listing for all those agents and such, and mailed or email queries. I got a few hits asking for sample chapters, so I sent them.

One day I got this letter from this agent, I think some of you will know who I'm speaking of, her first name starts with a K. She wanted to be my agent, loved the novel, well you know the drill. I was jumping up and down, so happy I could hardly breathe.

Now, keep in mind, in this book she was listed as not charging any fees. It wasn't long after I received this letter my phone rang, and it was Ms. K, ranting and raving about my novel, she told me she was sending me the contract, still no mention of any fees. A few days later I received the contract and a listing (according to how many publishers you wanted to submit to was how much her charge was), I looked her up in this book again, and sure enough it had nothing listed about her charging fees.

I was new at all of this and thought this might just be standard practice with some agents. I opted for whatever it was as to how many publishers I wanted her to send my ms off to, signed the contract and made out the check then mailed it. Still, there was something in the back of my mind that nagged at me. This was all before the internet got so good and long before I learned to a great deal of research.

Time passed and nothing from Ms. K, so I email her asking for a progress report. She answered saying she had not heard back from any of the publishers she had sent my ms to and to just hang on. I did as she said. A few weeks later my phone rang, it was Ms.K.

She told me a publisher wanted me, I jumped for joy and asked which one? When she told me Publish America, a bell went off in my head, you see, I had started to figure out this Internet thingy and ran across some unplesant things about this publisher. I questioned her about this, she reassured me they were great and that I would be very happy with them. I agreed for her to go with them, she's the agent and should know what she's talking about because it was for sure I didn't know.

Now, I knew this novel needed editing. I'm a great story teller but am horrible at all that grammar stuff (can't you tell by this?) and I was assured that PA would edit my book (by Ms. K, not anyone at PA)

Time rocked on, soon I had the contract from PA signed and returned, so happy about receiving that silly one dollar it is not embrassing. Then came my galleys (yea, right) and to my surprise not only had they not edited it but had changed GBI to FBI throughout the book. I knew then they were using the spell checker and GBI was not in there but FBI was. I tried my best to make sure they changed this back, explaining why it was G (standing for Georgia)BI and not F(standing for Federal)BI. I had something like 30 pages of corrections to send back.

Long story short, the book was not edited. When I received my authors copies I was horrified at the lack of editing, and I voiced my disappointment to PA about it. To bad, to sad, it was now printed and nothing could be done about it.

With all of that said, let me say this. Even with all the above happening to my first book, I was a happy author I really was. I was for a long, long time. Still, there was something that made me not feel this happiness deep in my soul.

I can relate to all those happy PA authors and I say, enjoy it while it lasts, cause it is comming to an end. It may not be this year even, but that happiness will ware out, the hopes of getting your books into the hands of the public will ware you down and you will simply give up and let the book die. Sad death that it is, it will still die.

I didn't try to get my first novel released from PA, but I did my second one. Oh, I know what you are going to say, you sent ANOTHER one to them? Well, according to the contract I signed, I had no other choice. I have now got if back, though it does have that God awful gag thingy in it.

But, I sent an email to Ingram and Lightning Source; Barnes & Noble, Books-A-Million and Amazon telling the about the termination of my contract with PA and if they printed or sold another of my books I would sue them for copyright infringment. I am happy to report that Ingram has deleted my book from their system (I call the other night just to be sure), Barnes & Nobel has taken it off their web site as has Books-A-Million. Amazon still has it there but I think that is because they have 3 used copies available.

Oh, yes, I sent an email to PA telling them the same thing about copyright infringment and that the gag order woul NOT hold up in a court of law if they did not remove my book from their book section, it was gone that same day.

Onward and upward.

Violet:hat

Dee, Becca, would you toss her a life vest?

Can I try?

My guess is that she was released under Paragraph 25 of the contract, the one that says:

<BLOCKQUOTE>25. The Publisher agrees to commence production of the said literary work within 365 days from the date of the signing of this agreement by both parties thereto, provided Publisher is not hindered by causes beyond its own control, or by the Author.</BLOCKQUOTE>

Signed the contract in February '04? February '05 is coming up, and PA is getting backed up -- they're accepting books faster than they can push them through the pipeline.

She's lucky. She's finished a novel. She's done a re-write on it, with input from her friends. A year has gone by and she can now re-read the book with fresh eyes with a view to revising it.

Why not submit it to Dorchester? Here are their <a href="http://www.dorchesterpub.com/Dorch/SubmissionGuidlines.cfm" target="_new">guidelines</a>. (She should follow those guideline to the letter.) After she's rejected by them (most likely outcome), she should continue on with other legitimate publishers. Here's a <a href="http://www.rwanational.org/pub_links.cfm" target="_new">list</a>. At the same time, I suggest she join RWA -- they're very supportive of pre-published authors. While she's trying to get a publisher, same time, she should be querying agents.

Meanwhile -- I hope she spent the last year writing a new novel. If not -- nothing's lost. While she's querying agents and publishers, she should write her next novel. Nothing improves your novel writing than writing them.

This may actually be a stroke of good luck for her, disguised as a slap.

I wish her all good luck.

And James, you continue to make a valid point, keep working and writing, keep working and writing.... My fear is that being published by PA allows writers an easy way out. A way to avoid working and writing.... I'm probably paranoid.

Onward and upward.

Violet, to have had those experiences and still be determined is, IMHO, fantastic. Good luck
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My fear is that being published by PA allows writers an easy way out.

Easy out? Running around trying to promote your book, trying to arrange signings, buying copies, selling them one by one -- that's time consuming. That's hard. They're working far harder than they should. Did someone say they're failing because they don't believe in their books? Horse pucky! They believe with all their hearts.

Selling books one-by-one isn't the best thing a writer can do with his or her time. We're called writers, not sales staff.

You want to know what sells books? It isn't print ads. It isn't radio spots. It isn't newspaper interviews. It isn't bookstore signings. It isn't reviews. It's this: The reader read and loved an earlier book by that same author. Your last book sells your next one.

If there isn't a next one, you're losing the single best source of sales there is.

(The number two reason someone buys your book is: Someone he or she knows and trusts recommended it. The rest of the reasons vanish down in single-digit percentages.)

You misunderstand me, I don't mean "easy way out" sales wise or businesswise. I mean ego-wise.

I mean ego-wise.

The ego-thing doesn't last past that first royalty check.

At least for the ones who went to PA thinking it was a traditional publisher.

When they discover that PA will accept darn-near anything they get sent -- that's a kick in the teeth.

No, for the people who are genuinely fooled by the false and misleading advertising and deceptive business practices ... the ego thing doesn't last, and the let-down is enough for us to see denial, anger, depression ... the whole Kubler-Ross thing.

I hope you're right, James.

Uncle Jim, that's not part of the deep Southern vernacular, but I love the expression. Just putting you on notice that I might use it in something I am working on right now. I may be a thief, but I'm an honest thief.

<a href="http://www.realrates.com/cgi-bin/authorrptd.cgi" target="_new">First novel advances; writers' careers</a>

<a href="http://www.sfwa.org/writing/faq2.htm" target="_new">FAQ for Beginning Writers</a>

<a href="http://www.mysterywriters.org/pages/resources/library/economics.htm" target="_new">The Economics of Publishing</a>

I know, I'm off topic now. I put these up for our new friends joining us from PA, or for people who are considering PA and want to know how to evaluate what they're hearing.

I noticed that ElizabethFrancis is already here, so welcome. Now that her book is fully hers, she stands a much better chance of seeing it in bookstores.

At the rate that PA authors and former PA authors are posting here, we'll soon have more than PA.

HEY! This thread is moving way too fast for me to keep up with the deletions. Stop posting a minute. :b

Note: I'm cleaning up these last few pages because we've gone way off topic and bizarreness has ensued.

For those who come later and wonder what happened:

Mostly, we discussed psychicness, liabling suites, Hitler, and Dolly Parton's bra size.*

*Disclaimer: One of these topics may not have, in fact, been discussed.

Now be quiet and let me finish deleting all the new words you worked hard to post.

I bet them dropping her book has more to do with the fact the year was almost up, and less to do with her being banned from the message board way back when.

I suspect one of their editors quit/was fired/disappeared, and instead of paying someone to go through that person's remote files and start over (since we know many of their editors work from home) they just sent a blanket contract release to all those currently assigned to that editor. I seem to recall this happening before.

I imagine it must be a terrible feeling, but in the end she'll realize she dodged a bullet, I hope.

<I'm glad I copied that before I posted it. It gave me some nasty error about the reply being deleted>

Ah, that explains why I saw 210 pages minutes earlier and then it was suddenly back to 209 and nowhere near finishing the page to get to 210.

I just posted this on the PA MESSAGE BOARD…though I know it will soon disappear, like everything else that is posted and they don’t like.
I just wish I would have taken the time to research publishers before I said yes…The good news is I have kept every piece of mail that was ever sent by them including e-mail. I contacted a lawyer this afternoon.



Ok…. I am sure this will be my one and only chance to express my disappointment.
I am sure after this thread is posted, my password will be evoked.

I signed my contract in February of 2004.

My manuscript was written following Dorchester Publishing guidelines for a Historical Romance Novel, stating that the word count is 100,000… a full-blown Historical Romance Novel.

My QA. Was finished in the beginning of June, and all seemed to be well.
The waiting process began, but I assumed it would be well worth the wait.

August 13,2004 I received my $1 and knew everything was about to fall into place.
Later that month I received an e-mail from my editor explaining my Dialogue tags were wrong… I immediately went to the message board and began asking for help…everyone was great!! Thank you.

I sent back my revised manuscript on September 16,2004 asking for a return e-mail to reassure me all was well. I received that e-mail later that afternoon, and was relieved.

November rolls around still no proofs…. No response to my e-mail’s asking if everything was ok.
Therefore, I posted a thread asking other author’s if this was normal.
The thread then disappeared… my user name unregistered… three days later I was aloud back on the message board. I would like to state in my post I never doubted PA… so it was strange to me as to why the thread would be deleted, but nevertheless it was.

I have e-mailed my editor several times… nothing. I even called PA... still nothing.
This morning I received an e-mail from the message board telling my picture will be posted, and when I went to the mail-box I had a registered letter from PA… telling me they have now decided not to publish my work…. After a year of waiting…. And now nothing.

OF COURSE IT IS MY FAULT…. I ask you when you receive an e-mail one day telling you everything is great and then nothing… and then a certified letter stating … sorry about your luck.

As I said I will probably be unable to post after this…
Good Luck to all of you… but be careful.

ElizabethFrancis

I'm bummed that you chose to delete the posts, Jenna -

I think that leaving posts that actually illustrate the lack of perspective can be very helpful - specifically to those who post here who may have lost some perspective.

But your board, your choice, I guess. I notice no one here seems to get upset when you exercise that right - but have issues with PA for exercising the same right. What's okay for the goose should be okay for the gander, no?

Disclaimer: as a writer I feel that no posts should be deleted unless they contain information of questionable legality or that could subject the board owner to legal action.

So, though the author may order say 500 books from PA that does not show up in the section where your information is stored.

That's right, winniemitzandme -- the Ingram numbers don't reflect books that were ordered direct from the PA site, or by the author. Nor do they reflect the books bought from BN.com or Amazon.com -- who would order directly from Lightning Source International.

The Ingram numbers given are the books that are bought through bookstores who order through Ingram -- in other words, most bookstores.

That's a dipstick, nothing more. Only PA knows how many books were sold, and through what channels.

Somewhere around here I have the phone number to call to find Baker & Taylor's sales figures. That would be one more dipstick.

What the Ingram numbers show is the books ordered through normal trade distribution -- the way most of the books that are on the shelves in most of your local bookstores reach those shelves.

The Amazon and BN numbers show that only a very small number of books were moving via those routes.

What the information implies is that however many books were sold (and information I've received from various sources is that those top sellers bought between three hundred and a thousand copies), they didn't go the usual route for books. They came direct to the PA site -- and that implies the author, and the author's family and friends, made the purchases.

The only way to be sure would be to subpoena PublishAmerica and Lightning Source International for their records.

(Question for any PA author who made bulk purchases -- did the shipment include invoice papers? Were the cartons marked? Is there any indication that the books came from anywhere other than Lightning Source?)

Nah, Simon, ...it was out of hand, I appologize!

Good battle tho.

(Hey, my wpm when up by 10)

Peace