The Old Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America)

[James D. Macdonald]

Originally Posted by momwrites

Hey, has anyone heard of Starscape Books? They were my first choice to go with for my children's series.

That's an imprint from our good friends at Tor. Sure, I've heard of 'em.

[momwrites]

Originally Posted by Sassenach

Thanks...'chapbooks' is also used in poetry publishing.


MomWrites: Is your chapter book Science fiction/fantasy?

It's more like historical/fantasy. Its set in different dimensions in time, with siblings learning about history as they travel through 12 dimensions, looking for clues as to their parents whereabouts, who are trapped in another dimension. The Crystal Locket is their travel machine, if you will, that takes them to places, major events in time, such as the time of Ramses the II or when the Decleration of Indpendence was signed.

They look for clues to also tell them where missing pieces of a scroll to the future are found and it is their mission to retreive those missing pieces, before Chimera, an cursed creature finds them for herself. There is much mythology weaved into the story as well.

[CaoPaux]

From http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bi...ounge/8131.htm

jck
3/09/2005
02:41:23

Message:

Anyone can get their books into the hands of any bookstore, I will not go into detail as to what will then happen if you try to leave it there.

Linda offers a service free of charge and you can be sure the people who get to know about your book will be interested even if they don`t buy it.

Look at the junk mail coming through your door, the same people are delivering those products right to the consumer and what do you do with that junk?

When I go into a main bookstore and see how the shelves are crammed tight with books and the damage they sustain I cannot think this is the best way for the majority of books to be on display. The top publishing houses pay for any decent display areas to make sure this does not happen to one of their top authors, otherwise that might not sell any copies either.

The solution is simple. There are many many stores that would really appreciate having a few books as an extra income source. Look at the outlets for cd`s and dvd`s, they are no longer dependant on the major stores.

Look at special offers on cereal packets etc. would they be interested in a deal with your book. I mean there is not much chance of you running out of companies to approach with that idea.

Ask your local newspaper if they would like to run a competition for 5 free copies of your book. You cannot buy advertising like this if they accept your offer. On another post I mentioned to a childrens author to ask the local schools to offer the book as a prize for the best essay. I now wish I had a childrens book because I would do this with every school in the UK.

Imagine the child coming home all excited about winning the book and telling the parents all about it. The heartbreak when the child comes home and someone else won the prize. What would you do as a parent?

On the other hand you can pay $150 dollars and suddenly everyones book is on display in all the bookstores as if by magic.

john

------
I'm having trouble making sense of this. Have I had too much coffee, or not enough?

[momwrites]

Originally Posted by Ed Williams

....but isn't this 'sposed to be a PublishAmerica thread? I think we be veering a tad off course...

Sorry, you're right.

[Diana Hignutt]

Originally Posted by Sassenach

What then were your qualifications to be a 'Marketing Director'?

Well, hmmm? Let's see... I was able to write press releases that netted me some major publicity (which doesn't help very much with a PA book): national tv, newspapers, magazines, radio. All of which gave me some good media contacts. My media kits have been touted by people like Publishers Weekly and the Philadelphia Inquirer.

Also, I do have some fairly good business credentials--I run a business, have been a sales representative for over ten years (leading one in the country for two manufactuers). I also have a degree in Economics, I am exceptionally outgoing and personable, and darn cute...

I was a good Marketing Director while I was one. I helped gain much respect for the new publishing company who hired me.

diana

[momwrites]

Originally Posted by CaoPaux

From http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bi...ounge/8131.htm

jck
3/09/2005
02:41:23

Message:

Anyone can get their books into the hands of any bookstore, I will not go into detail as to what will then happen if you try to leave it there.

Linda offers a service free of charge and you can be sure the people who get to know about your book will be interested even if they don`t buy it.

Look at the junk mail coming through your door, the same people are delivering those products right to the consumer and what do you do with that junk?

When I go into a main bookstore and see how the shelves are crammed tight with books and the damage they sustain I cannot think this is the best way for the majority of books to be on display. The top publishing houses pay for any decent display areas to make sure this does not happen to one of their top authors, otherwise that might not sell any copies either.

The solution is simple. There are many many stores that would really appreciate having a few books as an extra income source. Look at the outlets for cd`s and dvd`s, they are no longer dependant on the major stores.

Look at special offers on cereal packets etc. would they be interested in a deal with your book. I mean there is not much chance of you running out of companies to approach with that idea.

Ask your local newspaper if they would like to run a competition for 5 free copies of your book. You cannot buy advertising like this if they accept your offer. On another post I mentioned to a childrens author to ask the local schools to offer the book as a prize for the best essay. I now wish I had a childrens book because I would do this with every school in the UK.

Imagine the child coming home all excited about winning the book and telling the parents all about it. The heartbreak when the child comes home and someone else won the prize. What would you do as a parent?

On the other hand you can pay $150 dollars and suddenly everyones book is on display in all the bookstores as if by magic.

john

------
I'm having trouble making sense of this. Have I had too much coffee, or not enough?

No, I agree, it doesn't make much sense at all. Correct me if I'm wrong, but a writer writes, not markets, distributes, etc... If that's all I did with my time, besides write, I would be in big trouble. That was the whole reason why I didn't break my back with my PA book; I didn't have the time!

[Ed Williams]

...Uncle Jim, if I type the words "publishing scam" into Google, something about "Atlanta Nights" comes up as the second listing. Nice to see a PA related article and publishing scam so close to the top and together.

Also, if you type in the Rin Tin Tin Man of Poz, H.B. Marcus, into Google the first listing up is this:

Absolute Write Water Cooler - HB Marcus = PA Employee Active message board for writers, where you'll find 'writers wanted' ads, bewares, and general discussion about all aspects of the craft and business of ...
www.absolutewrite.com/forums/ archive/index.php/t-5736.html - 38k - Cached - Similar pages

The #2 listing is:

The Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America) - www ... ... When people come here acting like HB Marcus, slamming "PA's detractors" and ... Since HB Marcus has led numerous authors into the clutches of PA and has ...
p197.ezboard.com/ fabsolutewritefrm11.showMessageRange?topicID=209.t opic&start=3581&stop=3600 - 125k - Cached - Similar pages

...and the #11 listing is:

hbmarcus.com
Free humorous, entertaining, and informative interactive playground for posting jokes, reading, and playing games as well as a sanctuary for PA.
www.hbmarcus.com/ - 8k - Cached - Similar pages

HB, you should love us, you get far more publicity from us than you do from your publisher or yourself. I'm starting to understand why you speak up so often about us "basher boards"...

[momwrites]

Originally Posted by Ed Williams

...Uncle Jim, if I type the words "publishing scam" into Google, something about "Atlanta Nights" comes up as the second listing. Nice to see a PA related article and publishing scam so close together.

Also, if you type in the Rin Tin Tin Man of Poz, H.B. Marcus, into Google the first listing up is this:

Absolute Write Water Cooler - HB Marcus = PA Employee Active message board for writers, where you'll find 'writers wanted' ads, bewares, and general discussion about all aspects of the craft and business of ...
www.absolutewrite.com/forums/ archive/index.php/t-5736.html - 38k - Cached - Similar pages

The #2 listing is:

The Neverending PublishAmerica Thread (Publish America) - www ...
hbmarcus.com
Free humorous, entertaining, and informative interactive playground for posting jokes, reading, and playing games as well as a sanctuary for PA.
www.hbmarcus.com/ - 8k - Cached - Similar pages

...and the #11 listing is:


hbmarcus.com
Free humorous, entertaining, and informative interactive playground for posting jokes, reading, and playing games as well as a sanctuary for PA.
www.hbmarcus.com/ - 8k - Cached - Similar pages

HB, you should love us, you get far more publicity from us than you do from your publisher or yourself. I'm starting to understand why you speak up so often about us "basher boards"...

Very interesting, indeed yes...

Are you saying that he works for PA or is just an author for PA?

[underthecity]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but a writer writes, not markets, distributes, etc... If that's all I did with my time, besides write, I would be in big trouble. That was the whole reason why I didn't break my back with my PA book; I didn't have the time!

And there's the rub. What the authors on the PA boards will never get is that if they had gone with nearly any other publisher, they wouldn't have to market and distribute their books.

Instead they brainstorm on the boards about new ways to market their books. Cereal boxes? What's next, backs of Mountain Dew bottles? NOTHING is going to work, and their $3 royalty checks PROVE that! Why do they not see this?

underthecity

[Sheryl Nantus]

Originally Posted by CaoPaux

From http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bi...ounge/8131.htm

I'm having trouble making sense of this. Have I had too much coffee, or not enough?

it's not just you, I have NO idea what he's talking about.

I suspect he's trying to be intentionally vague in order to try and promote his own book, which of course isn't out yet - his enthusiasm for PA shows that much.

this is also the 200AuthorGuy, which makes me wonder why ANYONE thinks that a bookstore manager is going to borrow or buy a fat book to read through to order NON-RETURNABLE BOOKS from PublishAmerica.

sorry to say, I think he may be well-intentioned but very naive about how the publishing world works. One can only hope that his second book goes to a real publisher.

[Ed Williams]

Originally Posted by underthecity

Instead they brainstorm on the boards about new ways to market their books. Cereal boxes? What's next, backs of Mountain Dew bottles? NOTHING is going to work, and their $3 royalty checks PROVE that! Why do they not see this?

underthecity

...because the allure of being "published authors" outweighs anything else, including logic. It's like being seduced by a twenty dollar whore, that good lookin' body can sure cover up a lot of hidden problems if one's need is great enough and desperate enough...

[momwrites]

Originally Posted by underthecity

And there's the rub. What the authors on the PA boards will never get is that if they had gone with nearly any other publisher, they wouldn't have to market and distribute their books.

Instead they brainstorm on the boards about new ways to market their books. Cereal boxes? What's next, backs of Mountain Dew bottles? NOTHING is going to work, and their $3 royalty checks PROVE that! Why do they not see this?

underthecity

Its kind of like the old saying, but true saying, like your publisher, love your editor. I work for a local newspaper and I don't edit a thing!! That is what an editor is for. The same thing goes for marketers; publishers hire them to market their books!! DUH!
( me slinking away because I was just as niave once...):Smack:

[reph]

A few dozen posts back, people said this thread moves fast: two or three pages a day. I don't know the default setting for number of posts per page; I set mine at ten so pages would load faster. I sometimes get ten or fifteen pages in half a day.

A plea for those who got here recently, and a reminder for their predecessors: When replying, clip what you quote. Don't quote a whole long post. Delete the parts you're not responding to. It takes a little of your time and saves a little time for everyone else (the greatest good for the greatest number and all that). It also makes the logic of your reply more evident.

[James D. Macdonald]

Originally Posted by underthecity

Cereal boxes? What's next, backs of Mountain Dew bottles?

The back of a cereal box is commercial space. When you see ads for a movie or TV show there, you know that someone from the studio walked in to the cereal company's office pushing a wheelbarrow full of money to pay for that placement.

And what good would advertising a book that's not available in local stores do you? Do they think random citizens will pick up the phone and call PA long distance with credit cards in their hands to buy a book they've never seen by an author they've never heard of? And if PA doesn't pick up the phone that first time ... how many of those citizens will call back?

When PA says that a bookstore calls 300 times a day to order a book, do they mean that it's really 100 physical bookstores, but they have to call an average of three times each in order to get someone to take their order?

Listen up: If advertising books on the back of cereal packets sold books, you'd see legitimate publishers with their ads already there. You don't see 'em. Know why? Figure it out!

[Sher2]

Originally Posted by Ed Williams

...because the allure of being "published authors" outweighs anything else, including logic. It's like being seduced by a twenty dollar whore, that good lookin' body can sure cover up a lot of hidden problems if one's need is great enough and desperate enough...

It is a seduction, pure and simple. I think that's why so many defend PA. They'd do just about anything to avoid having to admit it was a one-night stand. Sorry to say, many PA authors simply don't have what it takes to be published authors. Yet, PA took their work and told them they'd take a chance on them. Ergo, they are "published" and they'll move heaven and hell to hang onto that. PA is thus nothing more than a philandering cad -- or a pimp.
P.S. This is admitting that I'm older than sin, but I have BTO on ... vinyl.

[underthecity]

The back of a cereal box is commercial space. When you see ads for a movie or TV show there, you know that someone from the studio walked in to the cereal company's office pushing a wheelbarrow full of money to pay for that placement.

Oh yes, Uncle Jim is correct. It would be impossible for a PA author, or Uncle Jim, me, or most authors to somehow finnegle a deal with General Mills to somehow get their books featured on the backs of cereal boxes. I mean, seriously. And if you did somehow manage to convince someone in the marketing department to actually listen to your pitch, it would literally take a wheelbarrow full of money to make it happen.

Stephen King could pull it off. JK Rowling would have no problem. But a vanity press author? No way.

utc

...about the PA contract, that is.

As many of you know, I am signed with that company. I was reading over the contract last night, and read a passage that, were it not so warm in my place last night, would have sent deep chills down my spine.

This is from Par. 24; it scares me half to death about the future of my book:

"When in the judgment of the Publisher, the public demand for the work is no longer sufficient to warrant its continued manufacture, the Publisher may discontinue further manufacture and destroy any or all plates, books, sheets and electronic files without any liability in connection therewith to the Author. However, the Publisher agrees to notify the Author of such decision in writing, and will offer to transfer to the Author the work and its rights in the copyrights thereon, the plates (if any), the bound copies and sheet stock (if any) on the following terms F.O.B. point of shipment: the plates at their value for old metal, the engravings (to be used only in the work) at one-half (1/2) their original cost, the bound stock at one-half (1/2) the list price, and the sheet stock at cost of gathering, folding, sewing and preparing for shipment, all without royalties. In the latter event, unless the Author shall, within 30 days, accept said offer and pay the amount set forth in said writing, the Publisher may dispose of the work, copyrights, plates, books, sheets and other property without further liability for royalties or otherwise."

(Quoted from my own hard-copy of my contract with PublishAmerica)

Did anyone catch the last sentence? "In the latter event, unless the Author shall, within 30 days accept said offer and pay the amount set forth in said writing, the Publisher may dispose of the work, COPYRIGHTS, plates, books, sheets, and other property without further liability for royalties or otherwise."

I had been told by PA the Copyright was mine. Now I'm reading, if I read this correctly, that if I decide not to BUY my OWN COPYRIGHT back from them, my copyright may be disposed of by the publisher without liability to me, the author of the book?

If this is true, this gives whole new meaning to me of their statement, "We want their BOOK, not their money."

Now I know I read that contract before I signed it, but until now I never made this connection.

I honestly want to know if I read that right.

Is my copyrighted material mine, any more? Or is it, unless I BUY it back from PA, their own property?




Sean D. Schaffer

[Gratian Gasparri]

Originally Posted by momwrites

I appreciate all the helpful advice you guys have given me, as it sounds like you all have traditional publishing under your belt, however; maybe I need to talk to someone who writes for the Christian public. I know this is a hard market to penetrate and just need some advice for someone who's been there.

Any takers?

Sure. Since you are writing for an LDS market, have you published any short stories or articles with any LDS magazines, newspapers, newsletters? This is where I suggest you start. It is generally easier to break into, it gives you practice refining the craft, helps you build up a readership, and also puts you into contact with editors and publishers.

From here it becomes easier to sell a book since you have experience working with editors, some name recognition, and some connections to help guide you in. It is sorta like seminary training, or in LDS terms, the two-year mission each young LDS man (and many women now) perform.

[NicoleJLeBoeuf]

OK, let me just say that it's only been something like 10 minutes since I posted about my adventures in Wiccan picture-book marketing. The amount of posts between it and this post is amazing. What is this, the hump-day lunchtime rush? Whew!

Originally Posted by Snarzler

Since PA bought the P&E domain names, perhaps the PA authors will go there, find good information, read about P&E being "owned" by PA and thus believe all the good information-including the PA information.

Now there's some out of the box thinking. Wouldn't that be ironic and good? Not highly likely, but a delightfully intriguing possibility.

Originally Posted by James D. Macdonald

Sure they do. Things like: Get postcards of your book's cover printed up. When you pay your bills, put one of the postcards in each return envelope.

But, but... "Do not include correspondence with your payment as that will delay processing of your account"! PA's nasty effects just domino down the line, don't they?

[Ed Williams]

...consider what PA is doin', especially that big ole camp out they have comin' up. Just think of all of us snuggled up under a big oak tree out in some state park somewhere. Wow, the imagery in my brain - Uncle Jim singing, "The Merry Old Land of Poz," Sherry's BTO vinyl resonating off in the distance, me sweet talkin' Nancy so that she will never feel ignored again, ZaZ telling a little soft core porn story/personal experience around the campfire, Diana marketing the whole thing as an "intense literary idea building session" to our publishers in order to offset the cost. Now, if we could just get the ICEE and hamdog people to provide the eats, man, we've got it made!

P.S. Sherry, love, don't feel bad. I've had BTO on vinyl, eight-track tape, cassette, and now on CD. You know you're getting old when you've bought the same album on four different formats...

[momwrites]

Originally Posted by Gratian Gasparri

Sure. Since you are writing for an LDS market, have you published any short stories or articles with any LDS magazines, newspapers, newsletters? This is where I suggest you start. It is generally easier to break into, it gives you practice refining the craft, helps you build up a readership, and also puts you into contact with editors and publishers.

From here it becomes easier to sell a book since you have experience working with editors, some name recognition, and some connections to help guide you in. It is sorta like seminary training, or in LDS terms, the two-year mission each young LDS man (and many women now) perform.

I do write for my local paper and have my own editor, but there are not many LDS magazines and to get an article published with them sometimes takes as long as a year or more. I am telling you; the LDS market is very hard to break into, however; a best selling LDS author wrote for the same newspaper I have been writing for, for the last two years and told me she broke in, because she had a following. Maybe my connections to the newspaper can help me.

[Sher2]

Originally Posted by Ed Williams

...consider what PA is doin', especially that big ole camp out they have comin' up. Just think of all of us snuggled up under a big oak tree out in some state park somewhere. Wow, the imagery in my brain - Uncle Jim singing, "The Merry Old Land of Poz," Sherry's BTO vinyl resonating off in the distance, me sweet talkin' Nancy so that she will never feel ignored again, ZaZ telling a little soft core porn story/personal experience around the campfire, Diana marketing the whole thing as an "intense literary idea building session" to our publishers in order to offset the cost. Now, if we could just get the ICEE and hamdog people to provide the eats, man, we've got it made!

I'm in! Those of us who sold our souls to The Stooges can stand up on the road and hawk books to raise money for the hamdogs and ICEEs. Kevin can bring Krispy Kremes and Christine can bring a big box of those special, mellow brownies. I'll bring my whole collection of old music. Dang, we'll resonate ourselves all the way to Poz.

[CaoPaux]

I'm feeling emphatic.

Originally Posted by James D. Macdonald

And what good would advertising a book that's not available in local stores do you?
<snip>
Listen up: If advertising books on the back of cereal packets sold books, you'd see legitimate publishers with their ads already there. You don't see 'em. Know why? Figure it out!

And I would just like to add...advertising is your publisher's job, not yours!

Yep, need more coffee.

[James D. Macdonald]

Originally Posted by SeanDSchaffer

.
Now I know I read that contract before I signed it, but until now I never made this connection.

Sean, I posted this just a bit before you arrived. It's a post that links to some earlier posts concerning the contract. You might want to look at those (and the messages surrounding 'em).

Yes, the PA contract is insidious and evil.

[DaveKuzminski]

Hopefully, Zaz's story won't involve the big 3 and any sheep. Of course, that might explain where they obtained the wool they've pulled over the eyes of so many writers.