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Old 03-18-2005, 04:51 PM   #11651
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T42
Sheri2 did you steal someone’s green box?
Miss Memory, you have wounded me to the quick. Steal? Moi?! I'll have you know my name isn't Curlem, Larry, or Moe-randa. I paid a whole damn dollar for that thing!
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Old 03-18-2005, 05:01 PM   #11652
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KellyS.
If she managed this task, she would have to completely rewrite all of the books to resubmit them elsewhere, correct?
Not necessarily. Reprints happen. (Typically you'd get less money for reprints, though.)

Just be upfront about the history. One question that would be in any editor's mind is, "Is this book already a proven commercial flop?" Typical PA sales numbers would tend to give that impression. You might counter that by explaining that no one ever saw it.

Do the books in the series stand alone? Can the fourth book be made to stand alone?
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Old 03-18-2005, 05:05 PM   #11653
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Originally Posted by Sher2
Miss Memory, you have wounded me to the quick. Steal? Moi?! I'll have you know my name isn't Curlem, Larry, or Moe-randa. I paid a whole damn dollar for that thing!
Sure you did! You copied it, said it was yours and had it printed! I know how you are....give me back my green box I'm sure it was mine...I think I had four of them...
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Old 03-18-2005, 05:09 PM   #11654
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T42
Sure you did! You copied it, said it was yours and had it printed! I know how you are....give me back my green box I'm sure it was mine...I think I had four of them...
Clearly, you use the same accounting firm as PrintAmerica. It's mine and I ain't giving it up. However, if you were to agree to hunt down and trash those "Wanted" posters and, further, keep HB off my back, we can talk some business.
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Old 03-18-2005, 05:16 PM   #11655
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sher2
Clearly, you use the same accounting firm as PrintAmerica. It's mine and I ain't giving it up. However, if you were to agree to hunt down and trash those "Wanted" posters and, further, keep HB off my back, we can talk some business.
You drive a hard bargain but Okie Dokie! I would do anything to have my green box where everyone can see it. I’ll even sign a contract….can I have a few more, can I?
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Old 03-18-2005, 05:17 PM   #11656
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Old 03-18-2005, 06:25 PM   #11657
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So far I've been on four radio programs with another six to go and a live TV interview scheduled for early April. I didn't pay for any of the programs. All of them featured our book, and were set up by our publisher. This is what real commerical publishers do.

Our first book signing is scheduled for April 4th at the Barnes and Noble (in Scottsdale AZ). The books were ordered by the store and provided by our publisher. This is what real commercial publishers do.

I have been invited to be a guest speaker at BookExpo America for an awards presentation, expenses paid. Again due to our publisher.

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Old 03-18-2005, 06:54 PM   #11658
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Follow-up to Dee
It's really too bad that many of the PA authors on the PA boards have no idea that in the real world, publishers handle all these things themselves. PA indicates on its site that authors are expected to participate in marketing and such, but I wonder how much different it would be for those authors if they never had to call the press or contact bookstores for signings.

But they are forced to accept it as the norm that they have to do it all themselves, while their efforts are hampered by PA's bad reputation among the press and bookstores alike.

REAL publishers sell their books to the public, instead of focusing all their time patrolling their message boards looking for any signs of anarchy.

And that brings me up to 50.

utc
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Old 03-18-2005, 06:57 PM   #11659
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarashay
I borrowed Some Writers Deserve To Starve from work and I just about threw it across the room when she sang the praises of Publish America. Much of the advice seemed pretty specious to me. Lots of stuff about writer's conference strategy that just made me want to throttle the author and yell "But what about WRITING?????" I wouldn't recommend it to anyone, except maybe for a good laugh.
That book just came through here, and I was asked if we should add it or, in the words of the collection development person, "Do you think this is Too Trite?"

Yep...too trite is putting it nicely. I flipped through it, laughed at the pictures, saw NOTHING of value or interest and said, "No, we don't need it..."

But then, I lost faith in WD books when I read a couple of their "life in the..." series and saw so many mistakes, it was not even funny...

Laura J. Underwood (A Little Bit of Travis Tea--My ATLANTA NIGHTS can poke out your EYE OF ARGON any day!)

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Old 03-18-2005, 06:59 PM   #11660
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Please notice that Dee, in her message #11709, is "participating" in her marketing.

That's what the term means in normal publishing contracts.
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Old 03-18-2005, 07:11 PM   #11661
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"Participating," yes. But Dee is not her own marketing department, as would be expected by PA. My point was that PA expects its authors to be marketing departments in of themselves, and the authors are being conditioned to believe that's how it is in commercial publishing.

utc
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Old 03-18-2005, 07:19 PM   #11662
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And "particitation" is what I thought PublishAmerica meant when they said the author had to agree to be available for marketing their books. Nowhere did it say I would be the one to go into the bookstores and be embarrassed.

At least I can be thankful that the clerk I talked to was as uninformed about PublishAmerica as I was at that time. She just gave me the packet to fill out and send to the corporate office. I didn't have to go through the lecture on the evils of PublishAmerica that some of you have had to endure.

After that one attempt, I talked to an online friend who was in the same boat and we pretty much agreed we aren't sales people and had no desire to become one. I'm glad I had that friend to go to through all of that with. She helped make the crash landing a little softer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by James D. Macdonald
Please notice that Dee, in her message #11709, is "participating" in her marketing.

That's what the term means in normal publishing contracts.
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Old 03-18-2005, 07:32 PM   #11663
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Quote:
Originally Posted by underthecity
It's really too bad that many of the PA authors on the PA boards have no idea that in the real world, publishers handle all these things themselves. PA indicates on its site that authors are expected to participate in marketing and such, but I wonder how much different it would be for those authors if they never had to call the press or contact bookstores for signings.
Wouldn't surprise me a bit to see something about Dee's new book on their website, minus the title, the fact that they didn't print the book, and hand had absolutely no hand in it... Boy, I'm really becoming cynical in my old age. Nothing that company does surprises me anymore so why would they stop at something like that?
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Old 03-18-2005, 07:39 PM   #11664
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Also, the author's participation in the publisher's marketing is usually a sidelight, and will probably only increase sales by 1-2% at most. It's the publisher that creates 99% of the sales -- by having a sales force, getting review copies to reviewers in a timely manner, and taking out ads.

With a legitimate publisher, you have the chance of finding your book in a bookstore you've never visited before.

With PA, you're only going to find your book on the shelves if you begged them to carry it.
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Old 03-18-2005, 08:27 PM   #11665
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and if PA does that
"Wouldn't surprise me a bit to see something about Dee's new book on their website"

And I would personally go to MD and sue the bejeezus out of them. I'm going to New York in June, MD ain't that far away.

Yes, I am participating in the marketing of our new book. I am not responsible for it. So far there have been reviews in Booklist, Publishers Weekly online, and Foreword magazine. And that's just from the ARCs the publisher sent out. Final copies of the book just went out a week or so ago to newspaper reviewers. I didn't send them, the publisher did.

An independent bookstore in New Orleans recommended us as guest speakers and/or panel members to the New Orleans Writers Conference in May. We're going as their (the conference's) guest. Our publisher is arranging media coverage for the city and for the booksigning.

Laura, I would be pleased to send you a copy of our book for your review, although of course our publisher would send you one, of course. E-mail me at authors @ brianhillanddeepower.com

The PA contract regarding marketing and how it's worded is not much different from the marketing terminology used in my current publisher's contract or from my John Wiley & Sons contract. As a lay person I was fooled by PA. PA says they will take care of the national marketing if the author takes care of the local marketing, but PA doesn't.

Dee
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Old 03-18-2005, 08:41 PM   #11666
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keltora
But then, I lost faith in WD books when I read a couple of their "life in the..." series and saw so many mistakes, it was not even funny...
I was probably turned off by the so-called Writer's Complete Fantasy Reference. First, fantasy involves so many factors, so how could you truly have a "complete" fantasy reference? Also, there was so much left out of this so-called complete book. Not a single chapter on horses or weaponery. And as far as I can remember, there was no acknowledgment that fantasy doesn't have to take place in a Medieval setting. I found a small press book called The Complete Guide to Writing Fantasy that is soooo much better. (The recent sequel is The Fantasy Writer's Companion.) Sadly, some people will never hear of it because WD didn't publish it, and many have chosen to ignore it because it was put out by a small press and they didn't recognize the names of the authors. (Hint: You don't have to be a best-selling fantasy author to be able to write an article on horses or armor or Medieval meals.)

And don't get me started on books that sound promising and turn out to be, for the most part, lists of character traits or jobs.

But for WD to publish a book that includes cheerleading for POD is even worse. Sigh. Yuck. I guess it shouldn't be surprising considering the types of ads they carry in their magazine. Then again, from what I recall, they've always managed to keep the ads separate from the editorial content. (But what do I know, I keep my copies in the ... powder room.)

Don't get me wrong, I'll still look at the WD books, but as always, I will be extremely picky and will probably end up getting something from another publisher instead.
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Old 03-18-2005, 08:42 PM   #11667
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Just demand, rightfully, that they pay you an advance of $10,000 since your writing is worth every penny of that and they'll easily recoup their investment from the royalties it earns when they place it in real stores.
What? You didn't ask for the beach house and national tour? Heck, I did and got it. Lemme tell ya, that Curly, Moe, and Larry are the absolute best. After I signed on the dotted line, I got a lovely Home Beautiful magazine that had a gorgeous beach house in The Hamptons circled in red crayon. Underneath it Curly had scrawled, "You didn't think we were going to give you a real house did you?"

As for the tour, I recieved tickets to the Hershey Chocolate Factory. Those minxes...
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Old 03-18-2005, 08:53 PM   #11668
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Is there such a thing as a fossilized item...
....on a website page???

Jamie Farr taking PA to Hollywood Squares!
"Got the books this morning and they look fabulous. The cover will really show up wonderfully when the tv camera photographs it from my square with me holding it up...
Thank you again." - Jamie
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Old 03-18-2005, 08:59 PM   #11669
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And "particitation" is what I thought PublishAmerica meant when they said the author had to agree to be available for marketing their books. Nowhere did it say I would be the one to go into the bookstores and be embarrassed.
This line is exactly what turned my head as well. I thought that since I had to promise to be available for marketing, that meant they'd be doing some events for me. When I learned the truth from a rather haughty B&N salesperson, I felt betrayed. That line went from my belief that PA would do anything for me to basically extracting my promise to get off my a$$ and market my book by my lonesome.

I'm still looking for the line that says, "Oh yes, now that we've extracted your promise to market your book, we'll hamper your efforts by making your book non-returnable and overpriced. We'll further screw you by insuring your work goes out completely unedited. Best of luck, sucker! Oh, and thank you for ordering 200 of your own book to solidify your efforts. We'll be dining out with the profits."

I guess that was in the fine print, eh?
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Old 03-18-2005, 09:09 PM   #11670
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Williams
....on a website page???

Jamie Farr taking PA to Hollywood Squares!
"Got the books this morning and they look fabulous. The cover will really show up wonderfully when the tv camera photographs it from my square with me holding it up...
Thank you again." - Jamie
I don't know if it's fossilizing or not but it's definitely moldy. Perhaps a bit of lichen here and there, too.
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Old 03-18-2005, 09:25 PM   #11671
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Well, I'm looking forward to the day when Jaime Farr choses to side with other authors against PA. Even if he does nothing more than give an announcement of solidarity, that will rip PA once more and give a boost to the efforts to end PA's victimization of writers.
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Old 03-18-2005, 09:25 PM   #11672
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Williams
....on a website page???

Jamie Farr taking PA to Hollywood Squares!
"Got the books this morning and they look fabulous. The cover will really show up wonderfully when the tv camera photographs it from my square with me holding it up...
Thank you again." - Jamie
Yikes, every time this pulls up on my screen, my monitor draws back in extreme disgust. Shouldn't this be a matter of "So what have you done for me lately?" Oh. Wait. They've done squat for me EVER.
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Old 03-18-2005, 09:26 PM   #11673
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Hmmm, maybe what's needed is a letter campaign asking Jaime to join in with the victimized authors?
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Old 03-18-2005, 10:00 PM   #11674
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You know, Jaime might be horrified to find out that this blurb is STILL on the website. I mean, for gosh sakes, this announcement was on there when I signed on. I am embarrassed FOR him!

Wonder if he knows? (Twilight Zone tune seems appropriate here)

:Cheers: Have a great weekend all!
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Old 03-18-2005, 10:05 PM   #11675
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Question What are the dangers
... of the continued existence of PA?

I have been following this saga for quite some time and am interested in what others think. Obviously, PA can lure fledgling writers into a hightly unfavorable situation. What really bothers me, though, are the reviews that PA books receive on Amazon, BN, etc. Clearly, PA authors are swapping reviews-"give my book four stars, I'll do the same." Am I naive, or is this way over the line? Do other non-PA POD authors do the same? I know most people don't but books based on these reviews; nonetheless, it seems to indicate a complete lack of integrity on the part of those who follow this route. Did PA recommned this practice or have the PA authors come to see thmeselves as some sort of writer's club who must behave in this fashion? As I said, this really bothers me and I would love to hear what others think.

By the way, I am new here... this is my first post. I researched the thread somewhat before this post to make sure I'm not rehashing old material. If I missed this discussion in the past, I apologize.

Also, I am not yet published, but hope to be soon.

Thanks to all.

Rob
robeiae is offline  
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