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Old 04-07-2005, 01:12 PM   #14726
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Williams
...
Now team, let's get out there and PICKLE PA!
Ed Williams -- a.k.a. The POD Pickler :faint:

It's 3:40 a.m., I've done my BIC and worked on my website dedicated to The New Three Stooges and The POD Squad and now I'm going to bed!
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Old 04-07-2005, 04:34 PM   #14727
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Just a suggestion, but if we want the Condensed Reasons that PA is a Bad Choice to resonate with anyone actually considering submitting to PA, we need to keep it from repeating information. When someone mentions X, then others shouldn't post X unless PA has changed how they react to X.

In fact, we might want to have that thread closed so that it can't be added to, especially by those who might want to sabotage it. Additions would be permitted only when approved by a monitor after vetting for accuracy.
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Old 04-07-2005, 04:58 PM   #14728
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveKuzminski
Just a suggestion, but if we want the Condensed Reasons that PA is a Bad Choice to resonate with anyone actually considering submitting to PA, we need to keep it from repeating information. When someone mentions X, then others shouldn't post X unless PA has changed how they react to X.

In fact, we might want to have that thread closed so that it can't be added to, especially by those who might want to sabotage it. Additions would be permitted only when approved by a monitor after vetting for accuracy.
Good idea, and if each person who has been adversely affected posts only one point, it will be very educational indeed. Dealing with PA, purveyor of PhantomAmendments, is one of those situations in which a little learning is a dangerous thing.
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Old 04-07-2005, 05:16 PM   #14729
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KellyS.


:0)
Kelly, I love it when you stay up late and get bored enough to scope out all this neat stuff. Go, Stooges!
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Old 04-07-2005, 05:37 PM   #14730
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Morning comes, and another day in the Wonderful...
...Land of Poz begins. In the category of convoluted logic, we find:

Quote:
I would add that I find it strange that some
(only a few!) PA authors, who sent in a
proposal for their book to PA electronically,
sent their manuscript electronically, received
their proofs electronically and returned the
same with corrections electronically and all
their communications with PA are by email
(electronically) now are disappointed that
there books are being sold electronically and
want their books to be sold mainly through
bookstores!!!
I can't imagine why your fellow authors would think that a book publishing company would want to sell books through bookstores, especially as truthful as PA has been in the advertising of their "services."

Let's not stop with just this one example - here's a little more convoluted logic straight from those in high places over in the Merry Olde Land of Poz:

Quote:
Local bookstores like to be able to demonstrate that there is demand for a book. If they can show demand, their superiors (those "buyers") may permit them to stock.
Ummm, and just how can they demonstrate demand for their books without getting them into bookstores? Cancelled checks from family members and friends?

And thus we go into another day in this great and mighty land, where the lies do flow, and the owners ho ho ho.....
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Old 04-07-2005, 05:41 PM   #14731
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Quote:
Originally Posted by changling
Jenna, I did what was right, and sometimes being right, and being popular, don't go hand in hand.

If they want to be like that, then they were never really friends anyway.

It doesn't bother me, it's sad that they feel the need to champion their publisher's fight.
Chang, I read your apology on the PA board and really was impressed by your courage in publicly righting a wrong. You're a man to be admired. As far as the backstabbers, we can only hope that one day they will see the light and recognize PA for what it is--a Publisher(to)Avoid.
Last edited by Crystal Rivers; 04-07-2005 at 05:42 PM. Reason: change a word
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Old 04-07-2005, 05:44 PM   #14732
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JennaGlatzer
Lindy, right on. I know some PR firms won't take self/vanity-pubbed authors at all unless they have distribution in place...
Some PR firms may not have known about PA's business model. The information wasn't always out there like it is now (and increasingly will be in the future). The author who hired them will have talked about "traditional publisher," and "advance and royalty paying," and "in bookstores from sea to shining sea."

We've heard of PR firms who were astounded when PA wouldn't return their phone calls or who tried to get advance promotional copies with no success. Those PR firms acted as if PA were a publisher only to discover otherwise.

I expect the word is getting out among the legitimate PR firms, just like it's getting out among new writers.
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Old 04-07-2005, 05:51 PM   #14733
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Williams
And thus we go into another day in this great and mighty land,
where the lies do flow,
and the owners ho ho ho.....
Down the Yellow Brick Road, hand in hand
Butt in a sling, straight over the rainbow.
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Old 04-07-2005, 06:00 PM   #14734
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crystal Rivers
Chang, I read your apology on the PA board and really was impressed by your courage in publicly righting a wrong.
What really astonishes me is that one individual on the PA forum, whom I'll only identify as impressing me with the massive intellect of a water-skiing jock, repeated the inaccuracies despite the recent posting by Changling correcting his earlier post.
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Old 04-07-2005, 06:26 PM   #14735
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveKuzminski
Just a suggestion, but if we want the Condensed Reasons that PA is a Bad Choice to resonate with anyone actually considering submitting to PA, we need to keep it from repeating information. When someone mentions X, then others shouldn't post X unless PA has changed how they react to X.
Dave, to the extent my contribution repeats others, I apologize, but it had been in the works for a while, and I was asleep when Jenna put up the Condensed Thread (which I think is a great idea).

The rest is modly stuff and I will leave it to the mods, and to those who made contributions to the thread, to sort out.
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Old 04-07-2005, 06:40 PM   #14736
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Williams
I can't imagine why your fellow authors would think that a book publishing company would want to sell books through bookstores, especially as truthful as PA has been in the advertising of their "services."
Perish the thought!

Also, going back to that quote you quoted... I use eBay quite often -- often out of print classical music records, books, etc. I browse for the stuff I want electronically, and I almost always pay for them electronically. But you can bet that if I ordered a book, and the sender sent me a scan of the book I had ordered, I would be really really upset. Not just because the download would be huge, but because that's not what I ordered. Just because I do some of the business electronically, that doesn't mean I want everything to "be electronic" at all steps.

Hmmm, I'm not sure if that works. Please take my analogy outside and shoot it. Not that the original analogy worked as when they do get royalties, PA authors are paid on paper checks...


Maybe another analogy... There is a small yet growing number of print publications that accept e-mail submissions -- including at least one book publisher (Baen). I can imagine an aspiring writer finding one of these publishers in an electronic market list (maybe ralan.com) and then submitting an e-mail containing their story to them... And then, when they are accepted, the check is printed on paper. And so is the story.
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Last edited by AnneMarble; 04-07-2005 at 06:46 PM. Reason: Broke yet another quote!
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Old 04-07-2005, 06:40 PM   #14737
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Quote:
I would add that I find it strange that some
(only a few!) PA authors, who sent in a
proposal for their book to PA electronically,
sent their manuscript electronically, received
their proofs electronically and returned the
same with corrections electronically and all
their communications with PA are by email
(electronically) now are disappointed that
there books are being sold electronically and
want their books to be sold mainly through
bookstores!!!
Well, maybe if he worded it with more of this tone: Considering NOTHING you've experienced so far has been like a real publisher -- not submission, not communication, not editing -- why would you expect sales to be like a real publisher?

Then it would resonate.

gran
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Old 04-07-2005, 06:42 PM   #14738
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He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named
Hi folks, as I was out of action on the board last week (new book contract, exams, Terri Schiavo, death of Pope, etc.) it appears that I missed something big vis-a-vis He-who-must-not-be-named. I've tried to patch things together from several posts, but as Mystery is not exactly my favorite genre, I am still a little cloudy.

1) Am I correct to believe that he-who-must-not-be-named is HB?

2) Am I correct to believe he either died or faked his death?

3) If the latter, am I correct to believe he is no longer permitted to post or has no longer posted to PA's public board since this incident?

4) Am I missing some other fine details that would put into perspective what appears to be a quick fall from grace?

Thanks in advance for any insight anyone can share on this.
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Old 04-07-2005, 06:48 PM   #14739
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gratian Gasparri
Thanks in advance for any insight anyone can share on this.
1. Yes.
2. Faked for the second time.
3. You appear to be correct, though that could change.
4. Probably not.
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Old 04-07-2005, 06:53 PM   #14740
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gratian Gasparri
Hi folks, as I was out of action on the board last week (new book contract, exams, Terri Schiavo, death of Pope, etc.) it appears that I missed something big vis-a-vis He-who-must-not-be-named. I've tried to patch things together from several posts, but as Mystery is not exactly my favorite genre, I am still a little cloudy.

1) Am I correct to believe that he-who-must-not-be-named is HB?
ETC.
Gratian, miss a weekend and miss a lifetime. All your questions are answered in this closed thread.

Get a cup of coffee and make yourself comfortable, you're in for a long and entertaining ride.

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Old 04-07-2005, 07:05 PM   #14741
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Quote:
Originally Posted by underthecity
Gratian, miss a weekend and miss a lifetime. All your questions are answered in this closed thread.

Get a cup of coffee and make yourself comfortable, you're in for a long and entertaining ride.

utc
To avoid needless frustration, though, don't bother to try to follow the links to the other board. Those posts have been deleted in true other-board style.

Welcome back.

Mo
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Old 04-07-2005, 07:20 PM   #14742
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Wow! Thanks everyone...
Okay, thanks to everyone who pointed those other threads out to me. Wow.... he really blew it!

I was also impressed, but not surprised, by the grace with which Jenna handled the situation. The gang-up on her was vicious, but not unlike what I have seen with other folks who try and help friends and family members out of a cult.
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Old 04-07-2005, 07:38 PM   #14743
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Quote:
I would add that I find it strange that some
(only a few!) PA authors, who sent in a
proposal for their book to PA electronically,
sent their manuscript electronically, received
their proofs electronically and returned the
same with corrections electronically and all
their communications with PA are by email
(electronically) now are disappointed that
there books are being sold electronically and
want their books to be sold mainly through
bookstores!!!
Why is it strange? That's how Baen Books works -- and their books are mainly in bookstores.

And why is there any connection between the way you contact the publisher and how their books are distributed? If you mailed your book to them, would this mean all their books are distributed by mail order?

Hmmn. I guess that means bookstores can't exist! All publishers are using mail order and the net! Any bookstore is just a figment of your imagination!
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Old 04-07-2005, 07:50 PM   #14744
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I just had to stop by and say that the condensed version of why we don't want to publish our book with Pa was a wonderful idea and well put together. Bravo!
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Old 04-07-2005, 07:51 PM   #14745
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James D. Macdonald
There are people who make getting scammed their lifestyle.

You see 'em with a history that goes AuthorHouse, iUniverse, Dorrance, and PublishAmerica ... with a sidetrip through ST Literary Agency and Janet Kay.
Oh yeah. I hear from folks like that often. For instance, those who got ripped by Janet Kay and are now considering signing with Desert Rose, which is run by a former Kay employee. It's hard to know what to say, so I just quote Uncle Jim's Maxim, give 'em some basic advice, and hope for the best.

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Old 04-07-2005, 07:56 PM   #14746
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JennaGlatzer
Lindy, right on. I know some PR firms won't take self/vanity-pubbed authors at all unless they have distribution in place; I respect that in the same way I respect a plastic surgeon who won't operate on someone with body dysmorphic disorder. In other words, they won't take the money if they know they really can't help.
There's also a growing number of PR services that specialize in self/vanity-pubbed authors. Some of these are well-intentioned (for instance, they themselves are set up as a distributor, so they can--theoretically at least--place clients' books in stores), even if they don't have the expertise of established PR firms and may not always follow through. Others are just ways to make a buck off of people who don't know better. Just on principle, it's wise to be wary of any PR firm that has a substantial vanity or self-pub clientele.

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Old 04-07-2005, 08:05 PM   #14747
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Here's a PA author who's a target for the PR types. She's puzzled as to why the PA 'press releases' aren't doing the job. Poor naive PA'er:

When I received this e-mail, I thought, "Cool! I'll bet I hear back from the newspapers around here!" (I live in the Middle Tennessee area, by the way; there are two newspapers I listed in the media contacts, the Tennessean in Nashville and my local community newspaper.)

So I waited a couple of weeks and didn't hear anything.

Then I found the pertinent newspaper editors' e-mail addresses and e-mailed them notification that I had signed a contract with PA, and that they had probably received a press release on this from PA, and if they had any questions about this, they could contact me.

I still haven't heard anything. I didn't even get any responses from the e-mails.
Last edited by Sassenach; 04-07-2005 at 08:29 PM.
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Old 04-07-2005, 08:10 PM   #14748
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[QUOTE=T42]I just had to stop by and say that the condensed version of why we don't want to publish our book with Pa was a wonderful idea and well put together. Bravo!
Mem[/QUOTE

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Old 04-07-2005, 08:16 PM   #14749
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Originally Posted by Gratian Gasparri
Okay, thanks to everyone who pointed those other threads out to me. Wow.... he really blew it!
What's astonishing is that an adult with reasonable intelligence and normal sensitivities would even attempt such a thing. Hmmm, maybe I just figured it all out...

Taking another quick look-see over into the Great and Mighty Land of Poz, we find that the "New Releases" section has not been changed in close to two weeks, and that the worlds' oldest internet fossil (the Jamie Farr promo deal) is still alive and well. And here's the latest on the promotional plan for the "Book of 200" -

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My scheme involves free retail space in such shops as hairdressers,framers,opticians that would only require a decent display. The books would all be sold as collectable signed copies making PA books premium items
Premium books in a hairdresser's shop? If one of them mentions Jiffy Lube in that thread, I'm gonna be hacked off about my idea being stolen!

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Elwood:
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It's 106 miles to Chicago, we've got a full tank of gas, a half a pack of cigarattes, it's dark and we're wearing sunglasses.
Jake: Hit it.
Last edited by Ed Williams; 04-07-2005 at 11:19 PM.
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Old 04-07-2005, 08:18 PM   #14750
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