Because PublishAmerica knows what they are and so do the industry professionals that attend these conventions. Larry, Willem, and Miranda know they would be asked questions by people who know the truth and won't tow the PArty line.
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Because PublishAmerica knows what they are and so do the industry professionals that attend these conventions. Larry, Willem, and Miranda know they would be asked questions by people who know the truth and won't tow the PArty line.
Amo is the one who bragged back at the PA forum about how he was leading us on at another forum and so forth. He quit showing up when I publicly outed his comments at the PA forum. I guess he thought we'd never be told about that.
Now for the record, Amo, why not come over here and post your point of view opposite ours? All you have to do is compare your facts and sources with ours. The public can decide for itself about who's right.
Remember, no name calling. Just facts and sources for opposing views. Registration is free. So, do you have any courage and conviction left to show up or not? It's up to you now, Amo.
Now for the record, Amo, why not come over here and post your point of view opposite ours? All you have to do is compare your facts and sources with ours. The public can decide for itself about who's right.
Remember, no name calling. Just facts and sources for opposing views. Registration is free. So, do you have any courage and conviction left to show up or not? It's up to you now, Amo.
lindylou45 said:
Bang, you hit the nail right on the head lindy. They don't defend themselves because the comments made about that company are correct.
You can't defend remarks with lies, they could be proven wrong. That's why they allowed the authors to defend them when the NYT, and Washington post articles appeared.
I was still posting on the P.U. forum then. I told those folks, "Let P.A. defend themselves." The family bond has been established there. That's what P.A. wants. Their authors think they have a stake in the company, they don't. If P.U. went down the drain, they'd find someone else to print their drivel.
I told um' that too.
Ken.
DaveKuzminski said:
Amo reads these boards. If he doesn't come over for some calm conversation, we can assume that all the PA fluff is just that...fluff.
If PA will invite us to THEIR board, we'll come under the same rules. What are the chances of that invitation being accepted?
Now what was that again about confronting the issues?
from Bonnie Kay at PA board said:
Here is the problem, Bonnie Kay. If your book isn't going to sell, you are write. It is much better not to have invested in a book that isn't going to sell than to have spent money on it. That part is indeed a no-brainer.
If it IS going to sell some copies and you are going to have to sell it anyway (which you have admitted to), doesn't it make more sense to be able to sell it a more reasonable price and make more money per book?
For example, a poetry book (I think that is your genre) with PA is going to cost $15 or so when you could self-publish that same book, sell it for $9 or $10 dollars, and make much more per book.
The claims that this is a lower-class process in the publishing and wrtiting professions are just plain false, so don't go there in your argument.
The only place where PA is better than self-publishing (from an income standpoint) is the instance where an author writes a book, sells it to PA, and then only sells a dozen or so copies. Unfortunately, that is theri model and that is what they are after. It that example, the PA model works best for the author. No money spent, no income lost, on to other things.
By the way, don't forget that if your self-published book IS successful, you own the rights to take it to the next level should you desire any time you like.
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Liarry's comments as restated by the reporter.
"The company president does acknowledge huge growth, and now more than 11,000 authors. He said purchases by the writer's family and friends make up a small percentage of sales."
I would love to know the actual sales from authors verses the public at large.
I know the 150 books I bought, is far and above internet sales. Two book stores stock my book. I sold them to the stores for 2 cents above cost. (9.98 my cost, sold at 10.00, on sale for 11.95.)
I would venture to guess, and am sure I'm close, that 85% of P.U. book sales are to authors.
And, Awe crap. Who woulda' thunk it. http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/lounge/9061.htm
Ken
"The company president does acknowledge huge growth, and now more than 11,000 authors. He said purchases by the writer's family and friends make up a small percentage of sales."
I would love to know the actual sales from authors verses the public at large.
I know the 150 books I bought, is far and above internet sales. Two book stores stock my book. I sold them to the stores for 2 cents above cost. (9.98 my cost, sold at 10.00, on sale for 11.95.)
I would venture to guess, and am sure I'm close, that 85% of P.U. book sales are to authors.
And, Awe crap. Who woulda' thunk it. http://www.publishamerica.com/cgi-bin/pamessageboard/data/lounge/9061.htm
Ken
Just plain good sense there, Ed.
Perhaps someone more intelligent and with more patience than I will take a moment and do a quick comparison of the cost of getting 500 books from PA and the cost of 500 books from a typical vanity publisher and then show a quick breakdown of the money earned back through royalties should the author sell all 500 copies? I think I saw something like this posted a while ago, but it was back when I was new.
In any case it would be interesting to see that without discussing the lousy contract, the $5,000 gag clause in the new one, a seven-year rights grab, the amateur cover art, the lack of bar codes, the lousy formatting, the royalties paid on net not gross, the insulting behaviour of the staff and the higher retail pricing when compared to other similar books just how the plain old dollars-in-the-wallet (or purse) comparison shapes up.
======================================================
This post has been sanitized by the Nice-O-Matic ™ system. Any comments that might be construed as not being politically correct or which might in some manner bruise the feelings of any reader in any manner for any reason anywhere are unintentional and the author cannot be held responsible for said bruising. This is a feature, not a bug. No authors were maimed, mutilated, killed or made to wear a red nightie in public for the production of this post. Please read responsibly. Do not read and drive. Your milage may vary. Read the prospectus before investing, past gain is not an indicator of future earnings. Thank you sir, may I have another? Come back, Ed. If you've read this far don't blame me, that's what editors are for. Thanks, Ken.
Memphis Ed: about Amo...
Yes, Ed. Amo is one of the more level-headed people over at the PA boards. It's many times a pleasure to read his posts over there, a major contrast to much of the bickering that goes on at PA's site.
Memphis Ed said:
Yes, Ed. Amo is one of the more level-headed people over at the PA boards. It's many times a pleasure to read his posts over there, a major contrast to much of the bickering that goes on at PA's site.
BeeBomb said:ED!
I guess I might as well go...too!
Dont go, BeeBomb. He's busy that's all and doing well..
SeanDSchaffer said:
I agree, Sean. There are a few that would be assets over here and could engage in some good discussions about the issues.
If Amo writes as well as he expresses his thoughts, it is a shame since he has no chance with his current publisher....NO chance.
That is especially hurtful considering the obvious efforts he is spending not only to learn his craft but promote his work as well.
Chang, I think your percentage guess is probably right on the money. In fact, it may be even a tad higher.changling said:
It is little wonder
I make mention of this post by a P.A.er only because of the glaring truth of the "why" in its context. I don't bash the writers, but it is obvious where this posters problem lies. I understand first try, first stab, and first book, but, not first day with pen in hand.
Quoted.
"I was laying in bed tonight thinking about those that bash PA. You know what I'm not going t let you people rain on my parade.
You say that PA will publish anything, well I know for a fact that that's not true. Because I sent them a ms before I double checked it and guess what they didn't take it. I went back over it and redid the work. I sent the same ms to another company and guess what for a lot of money they were willing to take the ms.
PA didn't ask and hasn't asked for any money as a matter of fact they gave me a doolar advance. Which maybe to you that doesn't seem like a lot of money but to me that was showing that they have faith in my work.
Also I have read where the PA bashers talk about how sentences aren't always right or words aren't speeled right, guess what I'm reading a book by a well known author and not all of his things are done right and he paid someone to look his work over. So before you say stuff about the authors that write for PA and how PA isn't any good check with other books and see how they compare.
No one is perfect and everyone makes mistakes but I don't feel that I made a mistake using PA. Maybe I could have gone through another company but I'm glad that they gave a chance to see what I can do." End quote.
P.U. has unknowingly signed Travis Tea.
Author Support <[email protected]> wrote:
Dear Ms. so and so.
Your letter is largely unintelligible. In the future please consult legal
counsel before sending us such a message.
It is difficult for us to determine just what you are trying to say, but
much of it seems to be just plain false. Your contract remains fully in
effect and legally enforceable. This means that you may not enter a
contract for your work with another publisher.
Thank You,
Author Support Team
I make mention of this post by a P.A.er only because of the glaring truth of the "why" in its context. I don't bash the writers, but it is obvious where this posters problem lies. I understand first try, first stab, and first book, but, not first day with pen in hand.
Quoted.
"I was laying in bed tonight thinking about those that bash PA. You know what I'm not going t let you people rain on my parade.
You say that PA will publish anything, well I know for a fact that that's not true. Because I sent them a ms before I double checked it and guess what they didn't take it. I went back over it and redid the work. I sent the same ms to another company and guess what for a lot of money they were willing to take the ms.
PA didn't ask and hasn't asked for any money as a matter of fact they gave me a doolar advance. Which maybe to you that doesn't seem like a lot of money but to me that was showing that they have faith in my work.
Also I have read where the PA bashers talk about how sentences aren't always right or words aren't speeled right, guess what I'm reading a book by a well known author and not all of his things are done right and he paid someone to look his work over. So before you say stuff about the authors that write for PA and how PA isn't any good check with other books and see how they compare.
No one is perfect and everyone makes mistakes but I don't feel that I made a mistake using PA. Maybe I could have gone through another company but I'm glad that they gave a chance to see what I can do." End quote.
P.U. has unknowingly signed Travis Tea.
Author Support <[email protected]> wrote:
Dear Ms. so and so.
Your letter is largely unintelligible. In the future please consult legal
counsel before sending us such a message.
It is difficult for us to determine just what you are trying to say, but
much of it seems to be just plain false. Your contract remains fully in
effect and legally enforceable. This means that you may not enter a
contract for your work with another publisher.
Thank You,
Author Support Team
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Lindylou45, I know your question was spoken facetiously, but...
My book is available for purchase in Europe, Asia, Australia, etc. It was from the beginning. But out of the six copies that sold in the first six months, three were at forty per cent off the regular price (My guess is those were the ones bought by Amazon.com and by a local library) and three were at twenty per cent off the regular price (bought by family members and friends through the advertisement sent to them in the mail when my book first came out.)
I do not believe any of those six copies were purchased anywhere other than the U.S.
(Of course, this is just one book. However, it would be interesting to hear from other PA authors how many copies of their books sold for what discounts and therefore who may have bought them, and where they were from.)
What I'm trying to say is, I rather doubt that unless the individual lives in Europe, and his family and friends live there, their books are not likely to see any success in that part of the world.
lindylou45 said:
My book is available for purchase in Europe, Asia, Australia, etc. It was from the beginning. But out of the six copies that sold in the first six months, three were at forty per cent off the regular price (My guess is those were the ones bought by Amazon.com and by a local library) and three were at twenty per cent off the regular price (bought by family members and friends through the advertisement sent to them in the mail when my book first came out.)
I do not believe any of those six copies were purchased anywhere other than the U.S.
(Of course, this is just one book. However, it would be interesting to hear from other PA authors how many copies of their books sold for what discounts and therefore who may have bought them, and where they were from.)
What I'm trying to say is, I rather doubt that unless the individual lives in Europe, and his family and friends live there, their books are not likely to see any success in that part of the world.
I'm sorry, but I just have to say they gave her the doolar for her speeling prowess. So smack me, I'm cranky.changling said:
P.U. did unknowingly sign Travis Tea, and they'll undoubtedly sign up more of "his" ilk before all is said and done. Go, P.U. -- all the way to the gutter!
SeanDSchaffer said:
My books are available there, too. I didn't have any sales from Europe either. What really amazes me though, is that PA isn't supposed to have the rights to sell my books in Europe without my written permission, which I didn't give them! Gee, wonder how they got there? Must be MAGIC!
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Okay, let's try costs.
PA: They say a 255 page book is typical. A $19.95 cover price is typical. The highest discount in the contract is 30%. Copyright is $30.00.
Total cost to the author for 500 is: $6,982.50 + $30 = $7,012.50 out of pocket for a PA author, ignoring shipping and handling.
If the author goes to a local short-run printer with the same 255 page book, for a 6x9 softcover, perfect bound, four-color cover, he's looking at $5.75 per book, or $ 2,875.00 for printing. Copyright is still $30. ISBN is $225 for ten. (Note: In the quantities PA is buying them, the cost per ISBN is far lower.)
Total cost: $3,130.
If the author goes to iUniverse:
Basic package is $459.00. For 500 copies, the author discount is 55%. Typical iUniverse price for 255 page book is $14.95. $3,363.75 + $459.00 = $3,822.75
Author sets selling price for own book at $15.75 (average price for a trade paperback in the USA). For iU and PA, use the list price. All 500 sell:
If the author sells 'em all:
PA: $9,975 - $7,012.50 = $2,962.50 profit, not counting shipping&handling.
iU: $7,475 - $3,822.75 = $3,652.25 profit, not counting shipping&handling.
Self: $7,875 - $3,130 = $4,745.00 profit, not counting shipping&handling.
PA: They say a 255 page book is typical. A $19.95 cover price is typical. The highest discount in the contract is 30%. Copyright is $30.00.
Total cost to the author for 500 is: $6,982.50 + $30 = $7,012.50 out of pocket for a PA author, ignoring shipping and handling.
If the author goes to a local short-run printer with the same 255 page book, for a 6x9 softcover, perfect bound, four-color cover, he's looking at $5.75 per book, or $ 2,875.00 for printing. Copyright is still $30. ISBN is $225 for ten. (Note: In the quantities PA is buying them, the cost per ISBN is far lower.)
Total cost: $3,130.
If the author goes to iUniverse:
Basic package is $459.00. For 500 copies, the author discount is 55%. Typical iUniverse price for 255 page book is $14.95. $3,363.75 + $459.00 = $3,822.75
Author sets selling price for own book at $15.75 (average price for a trade paperback in the USA). For iU and PA, use the list price. All 500 sell:
If the author sells 'em all:
PA: $9,975 - $7,012.50 = $2,962.50 profit, not counting shipping&handling.
iU: $7,475 - $3,822.75 = $3,652.25 profit, not counting shipping&handling.
Self: $7,875 - $3,130 = $4,745.00 profit, not counting shipping&handling.
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Oops, hold on. My Nice-O-Matic is stuck.
Just a sec, I'm working on it...
Wait, it's rebooting...
Editors, words, spelling...it's doing the conversions.
Finally!
But you know, that's what PA has editors for. At least, that's what they SAY they have editors for.
Kris
</NOM>
Awesome! Thanks James.
So, to recap: It costs you MORE to publish with Publish America, and you get LESS money in return if you sell all your books.
Sheesh.
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Larry claims that family&friends is a small percentage of the total sales of a PA book.
Let's look at that.
Larry says that only 18 copies typically sell to family and friends, by which I am morally certain that he means "sells through the order form that's sent to the list of 100 family and friends." He would, of course, have no way of telling if Aunt Mable or the maid of honor from your wedding was the one who bellied up to the Special Order desk at B&N to order one.
We know that the average PA book only sells 75 copies.
18 is indeed a small percentage of 75. (24%, if you must know.)
(Need I add, further, that 18 out of 100 as a response rate to a direct mail ad is absolutely outstanding?)
So that's where his numbers are coming from, and that's how he's weasel wording them.
Let's look at that.
Larry says that only 18 copies typically sell to family and friends, by which I am morally certain that he means "sells through the order form that's sent to the list of 100 family and friends." He would, of course, have no way of telling if Aunt Mable or the maid of honor from your wedding was the one who bellied up to the Special Order desk at B&N to order one.
We know that the average PA book only sells 75 copies.
18 is indeed a small percentage of 75. (24%, if you must know.)
(Need I add, further, that 18 out of 100 as a response rate to a direct mail ad is absolutely outstanding?)
So that's where his numbers are coming from, and that's how he's weasel wording them.
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James D. Macdonald said:
Thanks as well Jim. Enlightening to say the least.
I would still love to have the numbers for P.A. sales to authors, verses the reading public at large. Alas, only Scobby doo and the Mystery bus gang could get the lowdown on that.
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Jeff said:
It makes me want to ask all those PA Boosters, "So, how much did you pay to publish your book, hmmmm?"
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