S.T. Literary Agency / Stylus Literary Agency

Maestro -

I posted what I did, not because of the time gap between the produced credits and now, but because of the issue of age.

If the writer has credits that are 30 years old, that would make that writer over 50. Age has nothing to do with writing ability or ability to write commercially. However reality and perception are two different things, and the perception in Hollywood is that older writers won't appeal to the younger target audiences. It is very difficult to get someone to even read your work if you are not established and they know you are over 50, I've heard that it can be difficult for writers over 40 - especially TV writers.

If an agent or producer reads a great script - they are not going to pass because of the age of the writer. However, they may not bother reading the script - because of these age perceptions.

I'm not saying it's impossible to break in when you are older - the best writer I've ever met, went to film school after her kids were in college and broke into the business in her fifties and she had a lot of success. But she was also well connected on a personal level, and was able to get her specs to agents through personal referrals. Once the agents saw the specs, her age was not an issue, nor was it an issue for the many producers who hired her.

Like I said, I think this is a tough call for sunrise, and I also guess part of it would depend on how impressive those older credits were.

I won't go into ageism in Hollywood. Certainly there is. But never say never. My opinion is that a credit is a credit. It's better than having NO credit. Your age won't change whether you wrote Jaws or nothing at all... unless you want to lie and pose as a 20-something... the truth will come out sooner or later.

Sometimes it depends on the project, the writers they're looking for, etc. Surely if you're going to write for Will&Grace they probably would prefer something young with some experience than someone old with lots of experience. But I won't say all of them are looking for hot young things.


My opinion is that if you have a legit credit, a good credit, then mention it. Hollywood might be ageist, but they also respect people with experience and credits. You're robbing yourself a real chance if you pretend to be someone you're not.

There is always risk. You can risk losing an opportunity because you have "no credit." You can risk losing an opportunity because the producer is ageist. But personally, I'd rather go for the truth. It's always up to the individual to assess the risk and benefits and make his/her own decision.

Thanks, guys!

All great suggestions! Re--log lines, Simon--very true! I used to write log lines, and I was a reader for ABC-TV. I do know the importance of log lines and content in the query. My query has probably been revised as much as the script! You are right, it is the first thing they see and must be very professional. I think I have managed to do that. Don't think that is the problem.

Adding current projects in the query is also good. Would add that, although to do so, I have to cut somewhere else, since the query is already a page in length. And Public Access TV for local cable, which I am involved in presently, isn't the film world, and I don't think that reads as professional advancement, more like a retreat.

I have gotten a few positive responses from legitimate agents. Their reasons to pass is that they are too busy to take on another project. They wish me well. Which is encouraging. A lot of my letters are coming back because agents have moved and left no forwarding address. Some of my lists do seem to be old. Will just keep hitting the proverbial boards--if anyone knows a WGA agent, with a current address who will read and consider unsolicited queries, please respond! Otherwise, I may wait until Feb. when the 2005 HCD I-Film "Guide to Literary Agents" come out.

Thanks, all for your input! It helps to discuss these things! It only takes one, right?

Keeping the Faith,
Sunrise

Ok, so I wanted to believe! I paid up at STLit and I may have been burned! I won't know for another 4 weeks (their cycle).
http://www.stauthor.com/6044/TerryTh...edTipTruck.htm
is where the money goes, the on line pitch page.
They must have done a heads up after reading this board because NOW they show pics and books from 'their' successful authors on the web site.
Emeraldcite deserves a BIG writer rescue award for the work done exposing these people. I started to look for a physical address. OOPS! Silly me! I did however, find this board again!
I've beaten Cancer and depression, so now I'm going to beat my agentless state!
Thanks Team
Dawn (my id should have been SUNRISE43, one more oops!)

Actually I like sinrise... very telling.

Letter (oops email) from STL BEFOIRE I read these posts. Everything is 'canned' I am sure their PC's have 200 form letter with spaces for your detales.
From ST LIT:
Sometimes (usually) this is a tough job for us as Agents...
Unfortunately we must report that all the recipients of Series: Terry
the Little Red Tip Truck from the first batch have passed.

Here are a few sample comments that we received. Unfortunately, most
are this brief (and this generic). Quite a few are given to us right on
the phone during our followup calls. I really do try to dig in and get
feedback*. It's an uncomfortable communication. Just like all of us,
they don't like to say "no", and believe me, they have to say it all too
often.

------------

"Thanks for the read. This one's not for us. Good luck."

Thanks for submitting your manuscript to me. It is a pass for me.

Thank you for submitting your manuscript. Unfortunately, it is not
right for us at this time. Please feel free to contact me in the future
with any new queries you might have. Thanks again,

We have read your material and enjoyed it. Unfortunately, it is not a
piece that we would be able to pursue at this point in time.

--------------

If you would like to get more extensive feedback let me know and I'll
connect you with someone that can coach you inexpensively.
If you know that your work is where it needs to be, then let's press on.
As I mentioned, we can't make too many decisions from just one batch.
In short, it's your call, we can either dig into the material or press
into the second batch.

One way to look at it is that we didn't get any 'strong negatives'.
Therefore, we continue to believe that your material is saleable, we
just need the right combination of factors to fall into place. We
believe in you so we're not throwing in the towel if you won't.

At this time we have to decide if you want to send out another batch.
Because we did get the positive response we are willing to work it with
you . Some authors don't get this offer because their first batch falls
totally flat. We would like to do another batch because, in our
opinion, one batch is not enough to draw conclusions from, but two are.
As you know, the literature is replete with stories as to how many
rejections most authors received along their path to success.

I continue to wish you the best and I have the highest hopes for our
mutual success. Let me know about the next batch at your earliest
convenience because it is easier to work it when it is fresh in our
minds. Also, the next batch is less expensive ($95 instead of $140) ((Actually it was $50 DB))
because you are loaded into the printing system and we have some
efficiencies we can pass along. We do everything we can to keep your
out of pocket costs at a minimum.

In short.. onwards, ever onwards is the mantra of this day. If you
would like to get the next batch going while everything is still fresh,
just let us know and we'll send you the paperwork, or drop us a check
for $95. Our mailing address is ST Lit / RapidPublishing, P.O. Box
272503, Boca Raton, Fl. 33427.

Sincerely,
Robert Fletcher
Principal

Dawn (Sinrise43)

Ouch, $95 to do what?

Ask them where they have sent the batch, and who responded. Date, time, editor, exact response. Ask them to send a report, don't give you the "they only briefly said no on the phone." Like how do you know they didn't just collect your money and sit on their asses... (of course they did, but put them on the spot)... A legit agent would keep all that information and report to the client. And not just a form email asking for more money...

Well I have spent the whole afternoon getting eddycated. You may all be interested in the size of the ripples on ST Lits pond. I am in Australia so our friends are definately crossing the international dateline, (along with everything else it seems).
I have sent an email to Robert and his cohorts asking for an explanation re the many and varied comments herein (wow!)
Internationals pay by Paypal, ebay would be interested no doubt?
Thanks to the truly good advice on THIS site I am looking fer anuvver agint:smokin and have researched a whole bunch.
I love to tell stories and ST is totally Horror Genre.
I hope the ink never runs dry, the paper always has an extra sheet and every one answers when you call.
Dawn

Just a quick side-note. A few pages back, our old friend Robert Fletcher posted an angry letter demanding our respect or else lawsuits "were gonna fly." Of course that was April, and he hasn't sued anyone yet. Apparantly hasn't sold a book either.

I am a screenwriter, and I nearly fell victim to Robert until checking this site before making a move. Thank God.

For any fellow aspiring scribes out there, don't be fooled by ST's b.s. or the alleged testimonial of a "screenwriter" client of Robert's.

This pseudo-screenwriter said of ST, and Robert quotes:

"I would be happy to give a reference. ST Literary has always been upfront and proactive whenever I
communicate with them."

--- From what other members have posted, ST has been sending out the EXACT same generic e-mails some 2-3 weeks after sending out a "batch." And not one former, disgruntled ST client has ever spoken on any telephone conversation with anybody at ST.

In the film world, next to NOTHING is communicated by e-mail, even today. The film industry, especially with spec sales, is still a face and phone industry. So, scribes, don't be fooled by rising technology. This would-be scribe is full of it.

"I always receive a timely response whenever I ask a
question or for ST Literary to do a follow-up with a production company."

--- Of course, if this writer was smart, he'd be using his agented credentials and talking his way into the prodco's doors, and selling himself like a pair of shoes. That's Hollywood. But it's clear from the first sentence that we're not talking about the loftiest of career standards/expectations.

"In the business of writing...I have learned the following. As a new writer (even though I have been pursuing the craft of screenwriting for six years) you must actively market your work on your own."

---Which he is clearly not doing. No mention whatsoever as to whether or not the guy is even L.A., which is THE place to market your script strengths. If he was, he would surely know that ST is not, and thereby be on to the scam.

There is no magic pill or quick elevator to the top. To reach a level that is expected in Hollywood, a screenwriter must constantly write and learn from each creative task via a screenplay."

---Gee thanks, Mr. McKee. We asked for a testimonial on the genius of Robert Fletcher. Not a how-to, common sense guide. Who died and made you Syd Fields? And what exactly is an "expected level" in Hollywood? Everyone expects you to fail. The industry thrives on kicking fallen bodies (see the new docu: "Overnight"...woah boy).

"I am currently writing screenplay number eight (the industry average for a first time sale is nine)...I feel that I am getting close to my goal."

---Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Nowhere is it documented that it takes at least 9 specs to get it right. Very few agencies stick around long enough for the ninth script, especially when the previous 8 couldn't open a can of tuna fish, much less the eyes of a studio exec/"name"/prodco., etc. In today's increasingly competative industry, agents are looking for a ball right out of the cannon, which is alternately productive and counter.

Or, at the very least, they're trying to get their writers in the door for possible assignments, re-writes, pitch meetings, or anything resembling a paid gig if the specs aren't moving. Doesn't this writer realize what ST is not doing?

"I look forward to the day when I make that first sale and I know I will be good hands with ST Literary as they will be there to look after my business interests."

---And what an amazing job they've done so far. He didn't specify how long he has been a client, but I hope to God he didn't have ST "moving" the previous 8 specs that nobody read (obviously because ST never sent them), which would mean that he paid...I don't even want to do the math. At this point, I'm hoping this testimonial is completely false.

"I would say to new writers that sign with ST Literary...don't expect things to happen quickly...if they do that's great...becoming a great writer is like becoming a great doctor...it takes study and training over a number of years."

--- The difference being, of course, that one spends truckloads of money on med school and comes out with guaranteed employment. You're not supposed to spending hundreds of dollars on a third-rate con artist to pretend to be pushing specs in Boca Baton, FL. And what exactly are you learning about screenwriting in the process?

"An agency (any agency) is only as good as the writers they
represent..."

---With scribes like you on board, cowboy, your advice is well taken. And consider yourself a nice example for all of the other screenwriters on this board that agencies like ST do, in fact, exist. It took me two or three attemped scams to realize it myself, but it truly is a take-no-prisoners industry.

"Naturally they're those writers who don't write with an
intensity that separates them from the masses and the elite number of professionals..."

---An obvious positive/negative typo that actually sums you up nicely, Gary. Not to mention that the selected passage makes precious little sense. Man, I can't wait to see Spec #9!!!

"I strive to tell the best story I possibly can that will be
entertaining and also be marketable."

---But when you're paying your way in and thinking you're making productive strides, you're only swallowing your own tail. If you really do exist, Gary, and are not just a figment of Fletch's imagination, I hope to God you're reading this. A marketable script isn't marketable by itself. Pages don't pitch themselves. Writers do. Please, for the sake of humanity, get out from ST's bank-breaking grasp.

In other words..."don't quit your day
job...the one that pays the bills"...but work on improving one's skill level...and to be honest...it takes time.

---What shouldn't take time, Gary, is one's b.s. barometer. If you trust a guy like Fletch, you're going to end up like the greatest screenwriter who's ever lived, who, by the way, is sleeping unsoundly on a cement floor tonight, because he was almost as gullible and clueless as you.

I wouldn't quit my day job either.

RESPEKT
----cdr---

Hi, Sinrise.

Here you are, with a letter from Fletcher that says:

<BLOCKQUOTE>------------

"Thanks for the read. This one's not for us. Good luck."

Thanks for submitting your manuscript to me. It is a pass for me.

Thank you for submitting your manuscript. Unfortunately, it is not
right for us at this time. Please feel free to contact me in the future
with any new queries you might have. Thanks again,

We have read your material and enjoyed it. Unfortunately, it is not a
piece that we would be able to pursue at this point in time.

-------------- </BLOCKQUOTE>

and here was TruthSeeker back in May, with this letter from Fletcher:

<BLOCKQUOTE>------------

"Thanks for the read. This one's not for us. Good luck."

Thanks for submitting your manuscript to me. It is a pass for me.

Thank you for submitting your manuscript. Unfortunately, it is not
right for us at this time. Please feel free to contact me in the future
with any new queries you might have. Thanks again,

We have read your material and enjoyed it. Unfortunately, it is not a
piece that we would be able to pursue at this point in time.

Thanks for the read. Although it is an engaging and well conceived,
unfortunately we do not
feel that it fits with our current development needs. Good luck with
this project.

-------------- </BLOCKQUOTE>

Freaky, isn't it?

I wonder how many ST clients compare notes...

Any agents who only correspond to their "clients" through email are suspects. If you can't contact/talk to them on the phone, something is wrong there, already.

ST changes its tactics in response to public scrutiny. For instance, sometime this summer, after discussion here and elsewhere about the inappropriateness of its submissions, it stopped providing "publisher submittal lists" to clients, and now won't tell them where their work has supposedly been sent.

I also just heard from a writer who was direct-solicited by ST. Wonder if they're starting to have a little trouble roping in new clients?

- Victoria

Direct solicited as in ST contacted the writer out of the blue, requesting a submission? The same thing happened to me, and it looks like it's happened to a few writers.

But I do suspect that somebody somewhere in L.A. is or was connected to them somehow. I moved about 70 inquiry letters to L.A. alone over the summer, which listed the titles and loglines for about four or five scripts.

I've moved two of those scripts into competitions, but the other three have remained on the laptop. I've gotten nothing but rejection letters. But ST somehow got their hands on one of the letters, because they requested a random script from that letter that I haven't pitched anywhere else.

Very strange.

RESPEKT
---cdr---

...and now won't tell them where their work has supposedly been sent.

What are the odds that the work has actually been sent anywhere?

Someone check me if I'm wrong, but the way Fletcher supposedly works is that he sends email to his supposed inside contacts at various publishers (the ones whose names he can never divulge, because if anyone checked with them they'd never talk to him again). The email gives these Movers & Shakers the address of the Online Pitch Page. Based on that, the inside man is supposed to request the work. Alas! only to pass on it.

Remarkably, they all pass on all the works using exactly the same words every time. So it's then time to send off a bunch more emails (for a bunch more fees).

One of the more astounding statements in Bobby's letter is this one: "Just like all of us, they don't like to say "no", and believe me, they have to say it all too often."

Who's he kidding? Editors say no so often, to so many people, that the thrill has gone out of it. For every hundred manuscripts they see, they say "no" around ninety-eight times.

As to Bobby's claimed sales (other than those by his partner Anderson, from the pay-to-play vanity Doyle Publishing), I see two: Too Much Tuscan Sun: Confessions of a Chianti Tour Guide and A Marriage Built To Last.

I'll bet you anything that what happened in those two cases was this: The author submitted the manuscript directly to the editor, and got an offer. Following standard advice, the author then went to get an agent to handle the negotiations. But ... poor author ... selected Bobbin' Bobby Fletcher of S.T. Literary Agency in Boca Raton, FL instead of a real agent.


I was just looking at ST's FAQ page. There's one FAQ that's missing, Bobby:

Have you ever sold a book -- to anyone?

>>What are the odds that the work has actually been sent anywhere?<<

Slim, based on Ann's and my research.

Not to blow our horn, but we take credit for the ban on publisher "submittal" lists. We did some intensive investigation based on those lists, and what we found was not good.

After the ban, one writer demanded, and got, a list of submissions. Apart from the fact that one of the publishers doesn't publish in his genre at all, and not one imprint that specializes in his genre was listed, the submissions were all addressed to "Acquisitions Editor" and "Senior Editor". This is the most basic of newbie errors: addressing submissions to "Dear Editor". Supposing they really were sent, they'd be routed straight to the reject pile.

- Victoria

Yes, Virginia,

They were--they even had flyers saying something like "Attention Frankfurt Book Fair writers". Apparently Jill Mast was 'manning' the booth (which was tucked away amongst the small pub section) but was away to lunch when I ran across it. There was just some guy manning it when I came across their booth, & he really didn't know anything except that ST was "a new lit agency" looking for authors. I got a business card & a flyer.

Wonder if they actually got some other nibbles... hope they look here first!

W.

May I suggest a correction, Victoria? At houses with open submission policies, addressing manuscripts to generic editorial titles doesn't get you rejected. It gets your manuscript into the slush pile, right where it would be if you'd sent it yourself. It will most likely be triaged and read by editorial assistants, who'll pass it on to a full editor if they think it's good enough to warrant the attention.

So much for S.T.'s hot publishing connections.

Correction noted, Hapi. I guess I surrendered to hyperbole.

- Victoria

I received a response from ST as a result of my questions. One from Robert, one from Leslie and a beeeuty from Robert telling me how they have sent out my second batch!!!!!:rollin

-----Original Message-----
From: Dawn Bellamy >D
Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2004 12:28 AM
To: Jill Mast; John Rain; Julie; Lesliew@rapidpublishing. com
Subject:


Hi, Robert, Jill and Leslie, can you please explain these extracts from a 16 page web link I am sure you are familiar with. There seems to be several hundred against and only one or two for, and they are in the cycle and haven't received results from "Publishers"

so far I have paid you $229 USD.

Dawn Bellamy

And the Response!

The bottom line is this:
1. We do what we say we are going to do. Your manuscript is sent out, we follow up to try to sell it, and do everything possible to that end.

2. This is a very competitive business, and we are very upfront with you and our other clients about that. We tell you that there is a low overall chance of success, and there are no guarantees. Even very good work can go unpublished if the timing is not right, or there are too many other choices available, or for a slew of other reasons. We took on your work because we feel you have a chance. Otherwise, we would not spend our time reviewing, sending and pitching it.

3. "Old school" agencies did not charge anything to authors up front, but there is a catch. They would only take on a tiny, tiny number of clients, leaving most authors with no chance at all of selling their work. ST takes clients on based on their work, irrespective of whether they have been published already. This increases our overall risk, and so we ask for our clients to help defray some of our costs associated with sending out the packages. Again, we are very upfront about the cost, and the reason for it. Any author has the opportunity to say "no, thanks" and we go on our separate ways.

4. ST has sold three titles to date. This may not seem like a lot, but in this competitive business it is quite good and we are proud of our accomplishments. Without our work, these authors might never have gotten published. Now they have a real chance of success in their chosen field.

In short, just because people are saying negative things doesn't mean that they are true. Some are disgruntled authors whose works didn't sell, and they have a tendency to "shoot the messenger" and others have their own agendas. If you, personally, are unhappy with the job we are doing, then fire us. Otherwise, let's just move on and leave the online grumbling to the curmudgeons.

Sincerely,
Robert Fletcher
President




-----Original Message-----
From: Dawn Bellamy []
Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2004 12:28 AM
To: Jill Mast; John Rain; Julie; Lesliew@rapidpublishing. com
Subject:


Hi, Robert, Jill and Leslie, can you please explain these extracts from a 16 page web link I am sure you are familiar with. There seems to be several hundred against and only one or two for, and they are in the cycle and haven't received results from "Publishers"

so far I have paid you $229 USD.

Dawn Bellamy

Let me get this straight....

Yes, it's a tough business... but people are succeeding...

But wait...

Hundreds, if not thousands, of clients... $229 a pop, I may add.

Years in operation...

Only 3 sales to date? THREE?

And may I ask which three? What books? And can I buy them in bookstores?

I second that. Three titles in how many years? I know a client of his who used PA as his publisher. I don't know whether or not it was on Fletcher's advice, though.

I don't know whether or not I'd be proud of that.

David

There are many PAuthors who found their way there via ST. Funny that he doesn't claim them as sales.

I wonder if he bills them for his % of their dollar? :lol

And may I ask which three? What books? And can I buy them in bookstores?

Well, I know two of them. (Look up-thread a bit.)

One of them, you probably can. The other isn't coming out until next summer (if the publisher, a microscopic startup, lasts that long). I don't know the third one.

Three books over a period of years is an absolutely pathetic number for an agency.

The one and only secret to getting published is to write a book that a lot of people want to read. If you can do that, you can get a legitimate agent and find a real publisher, even as a first-timer.

If you can't do that, sending money to Boca Raton, FL, isn't going to help you.

I first wish to thank all of you for "seeking to understand",

Hi, ByteAudio Bob here, of ST Literary. In past days I was also known over the net as Bigmouth Bobby Fletcher, threatening everyone including God himself with lawsuits.
It's plainly evident that isn't going to work, considering my record, so I figure I'll take a more proactive stance regarding my company, ST Literary, and I.
Look folks, ease up on me, I have to make a living, and I really hate working, I have a bad back and all.
So - what other way is available for me to stay in the luxurious lifestyle I've grown accustomed to?
By being a Literary Agent, or at least masquerading as one, that's how!
It's not as bad as it seems people, we only fleece our clients out of a couple hundred bucks or so, and then cut them loose to PA, Trafford, or other jokers making one hell of a lot more dough than ST Literary, I'll tell you that!!!
I do admit there are dummies who fall for the "fourth submission" con, and so on, some girl with a romance novel comes to mind - I forget her name.
She'll probably call the BBB on me too. I guess that's the breaks, and after all the hard work I've done for her!
Hey - I'm not responsible for some no-talent pipe-dreamer's stupidity!
Honestly, no one has gone bankrupt from my small withdrawals from their wallets, and I feel it gives them experience in the literary field - when they see another like me, they'll avoid them.
Look at it this way - I'm actually doing them a service, teaching them a small lesson of life, while enriching myself in the process.
You don't expect me to do it for FREE, do you?
Anyway, if anyone has manuscripts or screenplays they want me to submit to publishers that never heard of me, and will never sell, thanks to my ineptitude, feel free to send them (and $129.00 with each) to: ByteAudio Bob, c/o ST Literary, Boca Raton, Florida, 33428.

Thanks,

ByteAudio Bob, aka Robert Fletcher

|I
That didn't sound quite right James.
You said, "The one and only secret to getting published is to write a book that a lot of people want to read."
How do you know a lot of people want to read it James, till after you have a legitimate Agent and a publisher?
You then said, "If you can do that, (write a book that a lot of people want to read) you can get a legitimate agent and find a real publisher, even as a first-timer."
What you said could be interpreted differently I suppose James, but to the big heap of writers out here who are unable to "get off the ground", I can only suggest that it is not really particularly helpful.
No offence meant James.