Post 9/11, Islam flourishes among blacks

[skelly]

http://today.reuters.com/news/articl...src=rss&rpc=22

This is the way the world ends. Disinfranchised segments of populations gather beneath the crescent and star banner of Islamofascism. Osama taught, and well.

[Sweetlebee]

I doubt it, skelly. Blacks are a very small minority still in the U.S., and most follow a traditional religion, which is a very powerful part of their culture. Plus many African Americans serve in Iraq and see what Islam is like first hand. To my knowledge, many black Muslims are in the penal system. So you can stop worrying!

[Rich]

I hope this topic will gather enough realist and passionate folks to give it the airing it deserves.

[skelly]

Originally Posted by Sweetlebee

I doubt it, skelly. Blacks are a very small minority still in the U.S., and most follow a traditional religion, which is a very powerful part of their culture. Plus many African Americans serve in Iraq and see what Islam is like first hand. To my knowledge, many black Muslims are in the penal system. So you can stop worrying!

I'm talking about those segments of ANY particular group, race, religion ... whatever, that consider themselves on the unbuttered side of things. I think modern society will fragment and fail along these lines. I'm just tossing it up for people to consider.

[Bartholomew]

I think it'll cause more intra-secular problems than it will inter-secular problems.

[Penguin Queen]

Originally Posted by skyll

Islamofascism

Islam is one of the world religions. Not the same as fascism.
In the same way that not all Christians are homophobic witch-burners.

[Cath]

It's not viewed (by authorities) as a threat because the numbers are small and once we get past the war on terror and all the negative images then it will continue to spread."

Religion is a threat? Or any religion other than Christianity is a threat?

Penguin Queen's right.

Originally Posted by Sweetlebee

To my knowledge, many black Muslims are in the penal system. So you can stop worrying!

Well, gee, that's all right then, isn't it.

I really hope I'm taking that the wrong way, Sweetlebee.

[Bravo]

Originally Posted by Cath

I really hope I'm taking that the wrong way, Sweetlebee.

youre not.


its been awhile since ive seen this amount of hysteria on the boards before.

Originally Posted by skelly

This is the way the world ends. Disinfranchised segments of populations gather beneath the crescent and star banner of Islamofascism. Osama taught, and well.

and what else will happen!??!

[robeiae]

"Islamofascism."

Wikipedia gets something right, for once.

[Penguin Queen]

OMG, I hadnt even seen Sweetlebee's post. This may just be sarcasm?

If not....

Originally Posted by Sweetlebee

<...> most [Blacks] follow a traditional religion, which is a very powerful part of their culture. <...>

Called, I believe, Christianity.

Originally Posted by Sweetlebee

<...> Plus many African Americans serve in Iraq and see what Islam is like first hand. <...>

Hmmm.... I would say that's like saying, to have been in Northern Ireland at the time of the troubles in the 1970s, or seen the KKK in action in the deep south of your beautiful country, is seeing what Christianity is like, first hand.

Originally Posted by Sweetlebee

<..>To my knowledge, many black Muslims are in the penal system. So you can stop worrying!

You are joking, aren't you? I mean, you can't be serious with this??

[Sweetlebee]

Originally Posted by Bravo

youre not.

Are you answering for me, bravo? If so, I take offense to that as that is not my meaning at all.

In no way am I saying that blacks belong in the penal sysytem. That'd be absurd. I was married to a black man for 25 years, have a child with him, and have suffered the prejudices along with him. I know exactly how unfair and unequal our society is. I also know our penal system has a disproportionate share of African Americans. Many have converted to Islam because it is being preached in prisons.

While many Black Muslims adopted the religion while in the penal system, most mainstream blacks still practice mainstream religions. So I wouldn't stay up at night worrying that blacks will join radical Islamists and fight in some future holy war.

[Bravo]

Originally Posted by Sweetlebee

Are you answering for me, bravo? If so, I take offense to that as that is not my meaning at all.

...Many have converted to Islam because it is being preached in prisons.

While many Black Muslims adopted the religion while in the penal system, most mainstream blacks still practice mainstream religions. So I wouldn't stay up at night worrying that blacks will join radical Islamists and fight in some future holy war.

thanks for making yourself explicitly clear.


p.s. its quite telling how you consider islam to be outside the "mainstream". and its interesting how you imply that islam has a preaching monopoly in prisons.

[Sweetlebee]

Lord. How does anyone make themselves explicitely clear? In my mind I was not implying that Islam isn't a mainstream religion. It's the fastest growing religion in the world. I don't know off-hand where it ranks among world religions. I wouldn't call radical Islam a mainstream religion, and that is what Skelly is referring to in his original post.

I also never implied that Islam is the only religion preached in prisons.

Do you ever give anyone the benefit of the doubt?

[Penguin Queen]

Originally Posted by Sweetlebee

I wouldn't call radical Islam a mainstream religion, and that is what Skelly is referring to in his original post.

That is not apparent from his post. The article he links to describes Islam as, quote,
"growing fast among African Americans [...]. Converts within the black community say they are attracted to the disciplines of prayer, the emphasis within Islam on submission to God and the religion's affinity with people who are oppressed."

There is no reference to fundamentalist or radical Islam in the article.

For Skelly's or anybody else's information worried about the end of the world being nigh, according to this website, Islam is the second largest world religion with 22% of followers world-wise, while Christianity is still way in front with 33%.

As for Islam being a "new" religion, the article also talks about the 1960's & ties firther back:
"Many blacks converted during the civil rights era, when Malcolm X helped popularize the Nation of Islam, attracting boxer Muhammad Ali among others. [....]
[A] recent Friday sermon illustrated the power of the history of Islam in the United States for blacks. [It told about] the history of Muslim slaves brought from Africa who struggled to uphold their faith in the face of slaveholders' opposition."

[Jaycinth]

Being black, I don't understand where you are going with this.
My 2 cents:

I'm going by what my grandmother said and by some articles I read years ago. You folks should feel free to research and follow up as I'll likely not come back to it....

My grandmother felt betrayed by the blacks that adopted Islam as their religion. Her reasoning for this was that the arab traders came into villiages in the interior of Africa, and if the villagers would not give up their religion and follow Islam, they were taken and sold as slaves. Tribes that converted, made war on those who didn't, and the losers were sold as slaves.

I checked this out a few years ago and it was substantially true. It should be noted that any one who disobeyed the laws of the petty warlords and sultans could be sold as a slave, which would account for the slaves who did practice Islam.

As far as Islam in prisons, yes it is pretty narrow minded to think that is the only religion in prison. However, because of the structure of the religion, compared to Christianity and Judasim and others is that you won't find a lot of priests, ministers, and rabbis...folk that know the scripture well and can discuss it...among the general prison populations. Islam is taught differently, so you will find more people in some general prison popultaions more versed in it. That allows them to prostlytyze 24/7/365...where the ministers, etc are only there during certain hours.

ok. That's it. Thanks.

[Penguin Queen]

Originally Posted by Mustangpilot

My two cents.
1) Radical Islam is not a religion. It's a political system mascarading as a religion and uses selected passages from the Quran to justify it's barbarism.
2) Mainstream Islam is only a hair's breadth away from the above description and could morph into it at any time.

Would you care to back this up with any evidence, quotes, references etc.?
Bit sweeping as a statement, don't you think?

[skelly]

Originally Posted by Bravo

youre not.


its been awhile since ive seen this amount of hysteria on the boards before.




and what else will happen!??!

Nothing. That's it. The end. Islamofascism is a term applied to radical Islam, not the entire faith. By the same token, I made it pretty clear that while the article I sourced was about the rise of blacks in America converting to Islam (post 9/11, they note), MY point is that any "disenfranchised" segement of any group of people seems to gravitate toward radicalism. The "radicalism du jour" these days seems to involve terrorism of the Osama variety, and I wonder how many of the new converts (of any race) to Islam have done so for less than spiritual reasons. And honestly Bravo, one hysterically laughing smiley makes your point just as well as four.

[MacAllister]

Let me be excruciatingly clear. Islam is nearly as old as Christianity (beginning in the 7th century C.E.) and a major world religion.

I don't care what people's personal beliefs are. Worship God, G-d, Allah, or the Flying Spaghetti Monster--it's all the same to me.

On this board, though, we shall certainly be respectful of the members of AW who are Muslim, just as we'll be respectful of the members of the board who are Christian. I've already deleted a post in this thread for failing abysmally in that regard.

I wouldn't leave a thread open that essentially attacked Christianity for the actions of Fred Phelps loony band, and I wouldn't let posts stand that implied that all of Christianity was somehow tainted or polluted by the insanity and intolerance of a very few weirdos--I'm not even going to call them zealots, because frankly, that would imply an actual familiarity with and understanding of the religion they pretend to represent that they simply don't demonstrate. Likewise, bringing up Osama bin Laden or 9/11 is certainly no indictment of Islam. Any such derogatory aspersions just aren't going to fly, on this board.

So do tread very, very carefully on this subject.

[dclary]

Mac, what did we tell you about disrespecting the flying spaghetti monster??

[MacAllister]

Hah. Can I kill a thread, or can I kill a thread!?

You Spaghetti Monster people scare me.

[dclary]

I know! It's almost as bad as moon squirrels.

[James D. Macdonald]

Assignment for everyone in this thread: Get and read a copy of The Autobiography of Malcolm X before you post here again.

[Bravo]

Originally Posted by skelly

And honestly Bravo, one hysterically laughing smiley makes your point just as well as four.

you have your hysterics, and i have mine.

[Sweetlebee]

I didn't want to come back in here after my words about African Americans were interpreted to mean something I never intended. Sometimes further explanation just throws more fuel on the fire, and I'm not sure my thinking was even clear to myself. But I wanted to run that risk so I can clarify this part of my original post, which I never addressed:

Originally Posted by Sweetlebee

Plus many African Americans serve in Iraq and see what Islam is like first hand.

I received a comment on a rep point explaining that there were many Muslim AW members, and that made me question if my post sounded anti-Muslim. I did say "Islam" in that statement, which means I'm condemning the entire religion when I only meant the extremist, radical, religious zealots that are committing atrocities.

Still, even if I modified it to read "African Americans in Iraq see what radical Islam is like first hand," I'd still be implying that they'd condemn the whole religion based on a few extremists. I have no basis for that statement.

Anyway, it's a messy statement, and I'd like to retract it and apologize if I offended anyone.

[skelly]

I thought it interesting that the first review of the book Mr. MacDonald recommended ended with this statement:

That is where the fight for black liberation intersects the fight for socialism. And I will state until my last breathe that the key to the fight for socialism in America will be the cohesion of a central black cadre leading a multiethnic organization that will bring that home. And it will not be from the lips of the Kings of today that the struggle will be successful but by new more enlightened Malcolms, learning the lessons of history, who will get what they need-by any means necessary.

That's the sort of disintegration that I am talking about, just expand it beyond radical black splinter groups to include radical gay splinter groups, radical environmental splinter groups (ELF comes to mind), radical cake-bakin grannies with attitudes splinter groups ... whatever. I think that constant media exposure of terrorist acts empowers disenfranchised people. They sit in their lowly (or not so) hovels and think "Hell yeah! Give ME a Ryder truck and a couple hundred gallons of ammonium nitrate and you'll hear my voice loud and clear too, muther effers!!!!shaking fist at tv screen!!!"

I long for the good old days of the cold war. I'm starting to think that the world was a better place when two dipshits could give orders and a whole bunch of other dipshits could mash enough buttons to blow the whole g.d. business into the shitcan. People listened to each other under those circumstances. They listened very closely.