Learn Writing with Uncle Jim, Volume 1

SeanDSchaffer · Nov 5, 2005

I just checked it out, and with the information I gave in my previous post....

I came up with 11 words per line. (Again, this is with Courier New font, Point Size 10, 1.5 inch margins.)

So if my multiplication is correct, I have a manuscript with 297 'words' per page.

That will drastically increase the word-count of my present WIP.

Cool!

HConn · Nov 5, 2005

Petrea, I 'm no expert, but that's how I understand it works.

Courier Point size 10 is the same as Courier 12, right? The paper is 8.5 inches wide, minus 2 inches of margin makes it 6.5 inches of text. Courier 12 is supposed to have 10 characters per inch, so that should be 65 characters.

So why is it that 65 characters makes 10 words? You got me. Maybe it has to do with word-wrapping or whatever. But that's the way it's done.

SeanDSchaffer · Nov 5, 2005

HConn said:
Courier Point size 10 is the same as Courier 12, right?

I'm afraid not, HConn. Courier Point size 10 is 2 points smaller than Courier Point Size 12. It's like comparing Pica type to Elite type. They're two different physical sizes.

Since Courier 10 is smaller than Courier 12, that's how I came up with 11 words per line at 1.5 inch margins. That's the formatting I've been using on my Second Draft.

For the sake of alleviating any further headaches, my Third Draft will be done with the proper formatting, now that I know what that formatting is.

pepperlandgirl · Nov 5, 2005

It'll take you about 1 minute to put your current draft in the proper formatting so you can get an "exact" count.

1) Select all, go to paragraph, change the line spacing to exactly 25
2) Change the font to Point 12
3) Go to Page Properties and change the margins to 1 inch all around.

Easy peasy.

SeanDSchaffer · Nov 5, 2005

pepperlandgirl said:
It'll take you about 1 minute to put your current draft in the proper formatting so you can get an "exact" count.

1) Select all, go to paragraph, change the line spacing to exactly 25
2) Change the font to Point 12
3) Go to Page Properties and change the margins to 1 inch all around.

Easy peasy.

Understood. I'll see what I can do.

There was one thing, though. When I do headers, they end up so close to the text with one inch margins that I'm afraid people will mistake them for text.

For reference purposes, my headers go as follows:

Book Title / Author Last Name / Draft Number / Page Number

I'm not even sure if that's proper formatting either, though.

Lilybiz · Nov 5, 2005

pepperlandgirl said:
It'll take you about 1 minute to put your current draft in the proper formatting so you can get an "exact" count.

1) Select all, go to paragraph, change the line spacing to exactly 25
2) Change the font to Point 12
3) Go to Page Properties and change the margins to 1 inch all around.

Easy peasy.

Interesting. Now my book is 25 pages shorter, which is good. The only thing I changed was the line spacing because I had the rest already.

Thanks, everyone.

James D. Macdonald · Nov 5, 2005

HConn said:
So why is it that 65 characters makes 10 words? You got me. Maybe it has to do with word-wrapping or whatever. But that's the way it's done.

The average word in English is 5.5 letters long. With a space, it's 6.5 letters.

6.5 inches/line * 10 characters/inch = 65 characters/line.

65 characters/line / 6.5 charaters/word = 10 words/line

25 lines/page * 10 words/line = 250 words/page

================

Courier 12 point = Courier 10cpi = pica

Courier 10 point = Courier 12 cpi = elite

================

SeanDSchaffer said:
Book Title / Author Last Name / Draft Number / Page Number

I'm not even sure if that's proper formatting either, though.

Works for me. If you set 'em flush-right no one will consider 'em part of the text. Also, for submission copy, you might want to drop the draft number. No one but you cares.

(After editing starts, if you provide a re-written version, a date up there might be handy.)

==============

Wide margins and lots of space between lines and between letters gives the editor room to work. An awful lot of editing is hand-work with a pencil.

SeanDSchaffer · Nov 5, 2005

Cool, Uncle Jim. Thank you for the info!

HConn · Nov 5, 2005

James D. Macdonald said:
The average word in English is 5.5 letters long. With a space, it's 6.5 letters.

Much is made clear. Thanks for the correction.

jules · Nov 6, 2005

SeanDSchaffer said:
I'm afraid not, HConn. Courier Point size 10 is 2 points smaller than Courier Point Size 12. It's like comparing Pica type to Elite type. They're two different physical sizes.

Courier 10pt is approximately the same as Courier 12CPI, which is I think what HConn meant.

SeanDSchaffer · Nov 6, 2005

jules said:
Courier 10pt is approximately the same as Courier 12CPI, which is I think what HConn meant.

And by CPI, I take it you mean Characters Per Inch? I see what you're saying. My mistake then.

Thank you for pointing that out to me.

HConn · Nov 6, 2005

jules said:
Courier 10pt is approximately the same as Courier 12CPI, which is I think what HConn meant.

Yes, and Courier 12 has 10 characters per inch. If you type out 0123456789 in Courier New 12, then print up the page, those ten numbers should take up one inch of space on a line.

Who, me? Procrastinate?

James D. Macdonald · Nov 10, 2005

COCOA Association Requests Help

*COCOA Association Requests Help

Copyright Owners' Control of Access (COCOA) is petitioning Amazon, Google, Microsoft, etc. to allow copyright owners to exercise their legal right to control what's shown via systems like Google Print & Amazon's Search Inside The Book. They propose the COCOA Protocol as the vehicle for that control. Copyright owners use it to say, "Show *this* part of my book(s)" -- be that 100%, 99%, 75%, on down to 0%. (Compare to the current choices of 100% or 0%.) The result will be not just legal access, but access to far more copyrighted material than now. Everyone wins.

COCOA requests your help in moving these behemoth corporations:

1) Please SIGN THE PETITION -- worded for brevity -- at:
http://new.petitiononline.com/cocoa/petition.html

Read details at the COCOA web site: http://www.CopyrightAccess.com

2) Please SPREAD THE WORD: Urge others to sign the petition, learn about
COCOA, and likewise encourage others to sign the petition, spread the word, and urge yet others to, et cetera, et cetera.

Please post on your blogs, tell journalists you know, put links on your
web pages, etc. You may copy this article in full if you like.

The COCOA Association is a non-profit organization established by representatives from a number of authors groups, publishers, and publishing industry experts. It serves as a central point for information on COCOA
and distribution/authentication of COCOA records. COCOA was crafted by people ranging from "copyright conservative" to "copyright liberal," giving
widespread appeal to this consensus design.

Thanks for your help! Please sign! Please spread the word!

--Dr. Andrew Burt
Chair, The COCOA Association
(& former SFWA VP, current chair of SFWA's Copyright Issues Committee,
etc.)

James D. Macdonald · Nov 12, 2005

If I can boast on one of my fellow Viable Paradise instructors:

http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire2005/index.php?id=33227

Ken Schneider · Nov 12, 2005

Excellent, Jim. A nice affirmation of V.P'S worth in the climb up from the bottom.

Ken

James D. Macdonald · Nov 12, 2005

More important: Around thirty of our students have sold professionally afterward, including one with a Nebula nomination and another with a Campbell nomination.

Lilybiz · Nov 12, 2005

Jim, do you think you would ever do a workshop in the western U.S.? And is V.P. useful for all fiction writers, or would you recommend that only sci-fi and fantasy writers attend?

James D. Macdonald · Nov 13, 2005

I was a presenter at Writers Weekend in Seattle this year. If a workshop in the western US asked me, I'd certainly consider instructing.

Viable Paradise is primarily SF/Fantasy. While large parts of writing in that genre are common to writing in general, that's the focus.

Lilybiz · Nov 13, 2005

James D. Macdonald said:
I was a presenter at Writers Weekend in Seattle this year. If a workshop in the western US asked me, I'd certainly consider instructing.

Viable Paradise is primarily SF/Fantasy. While large parts of writing in that genre are common to writing in general, that's the focus.

Thanks. I'll watch for you. Much of what you say applies to us all, even if we don't write sci-fi/fantasy. If you head out this way, let us know.

Ken Schneider · Nov 14, 2005

Jim, Can dividing our writing time between long and short form help with novel length writing. If so, how?

Thanks, Ken

James D. Macdonald · Nov 14, 2005

No writing is wasted, first.

Second, writing short form allows us to practice beginnings, middles and ends.

Short form also allows us to play with styles and effects without too big an investment if they don't work.

James D. Macdonald · Nov 15, 2005

Minor boast for me:

Something I wrote was mentioned on the Phil Jupitus show (BBC-6).

Sharon Mock · Nov 20, 2005

That's exceedingly cool news about Jumper. (And yes, it took me this long to read it because I've been BICing like mad for NaNoWriMo.)

Dawno · Nov 23, 2005

Missing Posts

Here are the posts that were lost in the migration:

Ken Schneider said:
11-18-2005, 06:59 AM

James D. Macdonald said:

Minor boast for me: Something I wrote was mentioned on the Phil Jupitus show (BBC-6).

Click to expand...

Jim, to sum that writing up in a few words, What I told my son the day he
went off to college. "Keep your eyes open, and your mouth shut."

Now, another question about writing. Awe come on, I heard you sigh.

Now that I've gained some insight on how other writers write by retyping paragrapghs from their books; this is what I've run into with my own WIP.

I used to be able to pound out several pages in my WIP in a couple hours. Now, I'm thinking so much about show don't tell, and painting a picture, and winding in the plot, that I can maybe do two pages in three hours of work.

I like the writing better, every scene becomes my favorite when I'm done,
unlike before, when a certain scene stuck in my mind as a favorite.

My question? Well, Now that this has happened, would it be within the realm of the norm to be slow, and then, at some point, gain speed again?

And, I assume it would be better to be slow and bring forth better prose, than fast and write rubbish?

Ken

triceretops said:
11-18-2005, 07:14 AM

Ken, that's an excellent question. I too am thinking things to death rather than letting things fly. My output is staggeringly low, since I am now so concious of passive, excessive pronoun and random adverbs.

Tri

James D. Macdonald said:
11-18-2005, 07:22 AM

There's no "normal" speed. You'll find something that's comfortable, and gives you the material for the rewriting and revision stage.

Remember that two pages a day is two novels a year.

Eventually, as you gain experience, you'll automatically discard phrases, paragraphs, plotlines, almost before you've thought of them.

Everything improves with practice provided you practice them right. You know the guys who can fieldstrip and reassemble their M16s in thirty
seconds blindfolded? They started off by fieldstripping and reassembling their M16s very, very slowly, but doing it right every step of the
way.

Oh, and you never stop learning. A year from now you won't be the same writer you are today. Keep reading, keep writing.

TheGaffer27 said:
11-18-2005, 09:33 AM

Word count

All this stuff is very helpful. Looks like I need to do some reformatting, since mine is justified, not ragged right, and I have no idea about how many lines are on the page. I am at least in Courier 12 double-spaced, however, so there's that, at least.

With MS Word wordcount I'm at 83,000, but since the manuscript is at
391 pages -- if my spacing and margins are right (1" is standard, yes?), then I'm actually probably around 98,000 words. Yowza.

I guess I'll find out when I go home in a few hours.

aertep said:
11-18-2005, 11:25 AM

Ken Schneider said:

I used to be able to pound out several pages in my WIP in a couple hours. Now, I'm thinking so much about show don't tell, and painting a picture, and winding in the plot, that I can maybe do two pages in three hours
of work.

Click to expand...

I wrote the first draft of my novel in the span of a summer. The second draft has taken me (so far) about three years, and the early chapters of
it aren't as good as the later chapters. I can see the learning curve right before my eyes. I'm slow but getting faster, and the errors that I used
to have to search for are now obvious to me. I'm learning as I go.

I think what I'm saying, Ken, is that you're not the only one. Hopefully that work will pay off in a superior book.

It's my fervent wish that, after putting all this work into the second draft, the third will go a lot quicker! Even if it doesn't, though, I'm glad I
didn't try to shop that first draft to agents and I almost wish I hadn't shown it to my beta readers.

By the way, Jim, loved your post about the English folk songs.
__________________
Petrea Burchard

emeraldcite · Nov 25, 2005

Big thanks to Dawno for recovery. We really appreciate it!

Learn Writing with Uncle Jim, Volume 1

SeanDSchaffer

Whore for genre

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American Aquarium Drinker

SeanDSchaffer

glad to be here

Your Genial Uncle

SeanDSchaffer

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Bored fanatic

SeanDSchaffer

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Your Genial Uncle

Your Genial Uncle

Absolute sagebrush

Your Genial Uncle

glad to be here

Your Genial Uncle

glad to be here

Absolute sagebrush

Your Genial Uncle

Your Genial Uncle

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Shiny!

Art is Resistance