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#7451 |
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bemused observer
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 777
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Ar last, a first page I recognize!
I'd turn the page (actually I did turn the page when I read this.) The first page is not thrilling, but I found the description just intriguing enough to want to know more. |
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#7452 |
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practical experience, FTW
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Bronxville, New York
Posts: 158
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#7453 |
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Becoming a writer
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 4,449
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No, not for entertainment. If I were reading it because I wanted to read some more Oscar Wilde, I'd give it a go for a while. But he'd have to come through with something better sooner or later.
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Crawling out from under a rock. Nice to see names I know on here still. |
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#7454 |
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Elf Queen
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Up a Tree
Posts: 6,666
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Since we're talking about first pages, I've put the first page to my next WIP up here. If anyone cares to comment, I'd appreciate it. And don't feel shy about ripping it apart if you don't like it. I have claws and teeth -- I'll fight back.
![]() Seriously, I personally have the feeling that what I've written doesn't stink, but if you've got negative comments, don't keep them to yourself. I can't learn if all anyone says is, "You're writing's fantastic."
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#7455 |
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Banned
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Home - but for how long?
Posts: 4,260
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convoluted maybe...
but this is Wilde and he's always worth reading.
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#7456 |
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Elf Queen
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Up a Tree
Posts: 6,666
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If the rest of his prose is like his first page, I wouldn't be able to get through it, no matter how profound his points.
But this is where individual taste comes in. I'd probably be able to read the entire text of the nurse novel, even though aware I'd be reading junk rather than a classic. I'd rather enjoy a book than read one simply because it's "worth reading," or "a classic," whatever the criteria are for those designations. To each her own...
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#7457 |
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Vagrant Story
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: New Brigadoon
Posts: 174
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I would turn the page, possibly a few pages, to see where it's going. It's well-written and that counts for a lot, but today's a bit too attention-deficit for a page like that to fly far. As he brought up Japan, I present a haiku:
We want explosions, Monsters, and don't forget the Exploding monsters. Sad but--ooh, shiny!
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But as one bright star shines through the clouds at night And as one song rings clear above the roar of beasts We hold to one hope in these darkest of times. That star is you, and the song is yours. |
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#7458 |
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Tlilticcíhuatl
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Mexico!!
Posts: 6,215
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I turned a couple of pages, then got so bored I put the book back and blocked it out of my mind.
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#7459 |
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Unpredictable preacher
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: In a land flowing with sweet tea and deep-fried food
Posts: 173
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Another whole-thread reader finally drawn into commenting by the first-page game.
My eyes were glazing over before the end of the first sentence. If I picked that up, not knowing who wrote it, no, I probably wouldn't continue, even though I usually give novels a few pages to prove themselves. That passive, overwrought description of surroundings is almost guaranteed to make me set a book aside. Knowing it's Wilde, I might have picked up the book deliberately and given the first few pages the benefit of the doubt (I make a far more dedicated effort to read works recommended by those I respect) -- but I'm already skimming before I get to the end of the first page, and if I don't see something more interesting or profound in the first few pages, I just don't have the time to waste on it, no matter how well-regarded the writer or book may be. It's not for me. Life is short. Books are many. |
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#7460 | |
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Your Genial Uncle
Absolute Sage
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 21,575
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As many have recognized, that's the first page of chapter one of The Picture of Dorian Gray, by Oscar Wilde.
=========== Since it's the preface, everyone skips it, but here's the preface to that work: Quote:
All art is quite useless.
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"The Clockwork Trollop" by Debra Doyle & James D. Macdonald Free online. Text and podcast. Last edited by James D. Macdonald; 12-02-2008 at 08:45 PM. |
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#7461 |
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Elf Queen
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Up a Tree
Posts: 6,666
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I will not get drawn into a long and quite meaningless philosophical debate with Oscar Wilde.
I will not get drawn into a long and quite meaningless philosophical debate with Oscar Wilde. I will not get drawn into a long and quite meaningless philosophical debate with Oscar Wilde. I will not get drawn into a long and quite meaningless philosophical debate with Oscar Wilde. I will not get drawn into a long and quite meaningless philosophical debate with Oscar Wilde. I disagree on many points (though not all), though I'm aware that if that's the prologue to the book, he may be writing the viewpoint of one of the characters and not himself. But still... I will not get drawn into a long and quite meaningless philosophical debate with Oscar Wilde.
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#7462 |
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Your Genial Uncle
Absolute Sage
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 21,575
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The Picture of Dorian Gray is the type-specimen of the literary novel. The interior lives of the characters are more important than the external events. The interior life of the protagonist is even made an external symbol, the "Picture" of the title.
I chose it because, like Doctors' Wives, it opens with long descriptive paragraphs. Unlike Doctors' Wives, however, it has been continuously in print for nearly a hundred and twenty years. Most "literary novels" also fall into genres. (Cormac McCarthy's The Road, for example, is post-apocalyptic science fiction.) Wilde's novel falls into the sub-genre Gothic Romance. We'll do a line-by-line on that first page in a bit.
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"The Clockwork Trollop" by Debra Doyle & James D. Macdonald Free online. Text and podcast. |
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#7463 | |
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Your Genial Uncle
Absolute Sage
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 21,575
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Quote:
And, the book is still being printed and read, and quoted ("The only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about" is from this novel, for example). And everyone knows the plot, and Dorian Gray (either the book as a whole or Dorian as a character) has appeared in movies, comic books, and other novels. Whatever Wilde was doing, he was doing something right. Our job is to figure out what.
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"The Clockwork Trollop" by Debra Doyle & James D. Macdonald Free online. Text and podcast. |
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#7464 |
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practical experience, FTW
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Northeastern Oklahoma
Posts: 392
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This may be me having read too much stuff upholding literature at an impressionable age, but the portion I see on this page, at least, is intriguing to me. It makes a lot of bold statements.
Man. I'd never wanted to read that book before...and I'm not too thrilled to want to now, either.
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But the other Ministers considered that to employ a magician was one thing, novelists were quite another and they would not stoop to it. ~Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell~ |
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#7465 |
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Your Genial Uncle
Absolute Sage
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 21,575
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It's public domain now, and available free on-line. Go for it.
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"The Clockwork Trollop" by Debra Doyle & James D. Macdonald Free online. Text and podcast. |
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#7466 |
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AW's Resident Commie
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 5,380
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I have Wilde's book sitting in my 'to read' pile. I've snuck a peak at the first few pages, as well as read some his political essays. Quite an extraordinary writer, as well as inspiring for standing about against the first trial against a gay men for being gay.
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#7467 |
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Elf Queen
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Up a Tree
Posts: 6,666
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Just for the record, I don't disagree with everything he says in the prologue. But there are things he does say about morality and ethics that I do disagree with.
For example, I believe that all artists have ethical sympathies, and that not only is it important to express them, you can't not express them. The artist who believes otherwise is fooling him or herself, in what I think to be a very irresponsible way. Not that I believe that everything I write needs to be chock full of my moral values, but I find that even when I'm writing something silly like my NaNo novel, I can't help but create a work where what I believe to be true about humanity and morality is an important part of the story. And I definitely do not agree that all art is useless. ![]() That being said, I'm looking forward to your line-by-line. Not having taken English literature beyond high school (except for one class in ancient Greek and Roman and biblical classics), I consider myself to be woefully ignorant of the classics (in a scholarly way), especially when I compare myself with my son who will be graduating with a four-year English degree this spring. |
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#7468 |
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Where did I put me specs?
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Paradise
Posts: 1,885
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I baulked at the lines about moral/immoral books, although I suppose OW could argue the point using semantics. There certainly are corrupting books (and other more modern media).
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Oops, I blogged. I'll clean it up later (Latest post: 24 Jan, 2013) I'm on Facebook jjtonerYA And Goodreads: JJ Toner A short story: www.jjtoner.net/ed.html ![]()
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#7469 |
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Coming soon to a nightmare near you
Requiescat In Pace
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Sleep... Those little slices of Death. How I loathe them. ~E.A. Poe
Posts: 4,855
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I think each statement in his prologue is meant to be interpreted the way each individual reader chooses. The moral/immoral line, for instance. I am personaloly a Christian so my moral is what I believe God has instilled in me from birth. The Ten Commandments, etc... Now, if I were the complete other side, into satanism and black magic and witchcraft, my moral may be the thrill of seeing others in pain. (For instance.)
But another way to see it is there is another definition of moral; The practical meaning (as of a story.) Which goes back to the way each person interprets the line, and, everything else they read. But I'm just wrapping my brain up in bubble wrap right now. "You may be right... I may be crazy... But it just may be a lunatic you're looking for" - Billy Joel; You May be Right
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~Steven Michael Sarber ![]() Fan Page "When we write we begin to taste the textures of our own mind."~Natalie Goldberg "I'm alone here, with emptiness, eagles and snow, unfriendliness chilling my body, and taunting with pictures of home."~Deep Purple Pictures of Home
Last edited by smsarber; 12-03-2008 at 05:40 PM. Reason: Oops, oops, oops |
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#7470 |
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practical experience, FTW
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 484
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"Whatever Wilde was doing, he was doing something right. Our job is to figure out what."
I'll take a shot. First, it's got a great premise. Second the theme of What is beauty? Is an interesting one. Wilde seems to say that what is beautiful is also good (see Plato) but also that beauty is deceiving (so how can it be good?). Third the story plays into the hedonist/puritan divide and this creates tension and conflict in the character in the plot and in the reader (don't we all want a portrait like Dorian's?). Fourth, the character of Dorian is a very modern one like Dr. Jekyll and Sherlock Holmes and people still find it appealing. |
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#7471 | ||||
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Your Genial Uncle
Absolute Sage
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 21,575
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Line-by-line:
Quote:
Sight and smell are heavily invoked (odour, scent, perfume). Colors are heavily invoked (rose, lilac, pink). The only active verb is the stirring done by that light wind. Quote:
From the corner of the divan of Persian saddle-bags on which he was lying,First half of the sentence is now complete--we've introduced a person into the place. We have an idea of his social station, Lord, and something of his character. He is an aesthete. We're back to the smells and the colors. and now and then the fantastic shadows of birds in flight flitted across the long tussore-silk curtains that were stretched in front of the huge window,And we've introduced the theme of painting, and rendering the impression of motion in a fixed medium. (Incidentally, Tokio is a perfectly valid, if rare, alternate spelling of Tokyo.) We're heavily into colors still (pallid, jade). In contrast to the first paragraph, and the first half of this sentence, we have speed (and transitory) action: flitted, momentary, swiftness, motion. Quote:
The overall impression is of lassitude and boredom. This may be intended to revealing the character of Lord Henry Wotton. Quote:
So far we've got a person in a place with a problem: Lord Henry Wotton, in a studio, is bored.
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"The Clockwork Trollop" by Debra Doyle & James D. Macdonald Free online. Text and podcast. |
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#7472 |
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Your Genial Uncle
Absolute Sage
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 21,575
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May I comment here that portraying boredom or monotony in our novels is always dangerous? We run the risk of boring our readers.
To do this on the first page bespeaks either ... well, I wouldn't try it here in the first decade of the twenty-first century.
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"The Clockwork Trollop" by Debra Doyle & James D. Macdonald Free online. Text and podcast. |
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#7473 |
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Your Genial Uncle
Absolute Sage
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 21,575
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One more note, since the Flesch-Kincaid grade level scores have been mentioned.
All three of the last first-page examples (The Picture of Dorian Gray, Doctors' Wives, Nurse Kelsey Abroad) have the same reading level: Grade 16 (senior year of college).
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"The Clockwork Trollop" by Debra Doyle & James D. Macdonald Free online. Text and podcast. |
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#7474 | |
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practical experience, FTW
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: The Heart of the Groove
Posts: 187
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Quote:
It's interesting to note, if you're a language weenie, that in Japanese "Tokyo" is a TWO syllable word, "To-kyo", and not, as many Westerners pronounce it, three: "To-key-oh", so while "Tokio" was at one time valid, it's fundamentally flawed. |
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#7475 |
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Coming soon to a nightmare near you
Requiescat In Pace
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Sleep... Those little slices of Death. How I loathe them. ~E.A. Poe
Posts: 4,855
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Uncle Jim, I have a question. One of the lead characters in "A Birthday Suicide" is named Willis Jefferson. Throughout the first draft I alternately use three different names for him: Willis, Jefferson, and The Big Man. Is it proper to do that, or might it be a tad confusing?
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~Steven Michael Sarber ![]() Fan Page "When we write we begin to taste the textures of our own mind."~Natalie Goldberg "I'm alone here, with emptiness, eagles and snow, unfriendliness chilling my body, and taunting with pictures of home."~Deep Purple Pictures of Home
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