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Old 05-12-2009, 03:59 AM   #8801
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James D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate compliments
The genre is Urban Fantasy, and it was written without Dr. Doyle's assistance.
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Old 05-12-2009, 04:07 AM   #8802
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James D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate compliments
Quote:
Originally Posted by euclid View Post
This is an odd sentence: What does he mean by "its autumn"?
Also, he refers to his winter clothes as a "uniform" which is a little odd. Suggests a man of habit (excuse the pun).

It's the autumn belonging or pertaining to the town of Milburn. The author could have said "Milburn's autumn," but that might have been clunky.

And yes, Ricky does seem to be a man of reliable habit. This tends toward characterization.
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Old 05-12-2009, 04:25 AM   #8803
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One day early in October Frederick Hawthorne, a seventy-year-old lawyer who had lost very little to the years, left his house on Melrose Avenue in Milburn, New York, to walk across town to his offices on Wheat Row, just beside the square.
Interesting, and funny how, at least for me, more comes to light each time I see an exersize like this. This time it's,

That a discription of a person doesn't need to be spelled out if the right words are used in a sentence.

Seventy-year-old: I see gray hair from under his hat. Picture him tall and thin, in shape, becasue at his age brisk walking is a novelty for most.
Lawyer: Smart/savy, well dressed
Lost little to the years: Suggest to me he still has a sharp mind.

Quite a bit of discription if you read the words and look into your minds eye at what you see as you read. Tells me that our readers don't need as much info as we seem to think we need to feed them. IMO.
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Old 05-12-2009, 04:25 AM   #8804
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Cool
its autumn refers to autumn in milburn, a decidedly american way to say it.


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Old 05-12-2009, 05:11 AM   #8805
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smsarber View Post
its autumn refers to autumn in milburn, a decidedly american way to say it.
OK, I'm confused. What makes this an American way of saying things?
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Old 05-12-2009, 05:34 AM   #8806
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Well, does it really sound like something a Brit (or an Ire) would say?
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Old 05-12-2009, 07:40 AM   #8807
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James D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate compliments
In general: Readers need far less description and less backstory than you'd think.
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Old 05-12-2009, 09:09 AM   #8808
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Judg is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJudg is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJudg is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJudg is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJudg is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJudg is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJudg is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJudg is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJudg is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJudg is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJudg is so great that we've run out of appropriate compliments
Quote:
Originally Posted by smsarber View Post
Well, does it really sound like something a Brit (or an Ire) would say?
Sure, why not?

It's perfectly standard, normal, international English.
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Old 05-12-2009, 09:17 AM   #8809
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Originally Posted by James D. Macdonald View Post
Readers in bookshops, editorial assistants with slush--one paragraph may be all you get.
That's disheartening in its stupidity. It's no wonder the book stores are overflowing with crap.
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Old 05-12-2009, 05:31 PM   #8810
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James D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate compliments
Stories and artwork gone dreadfully, dreadfully wrong.

(These are far worse than the Archie Meets the Punisher crossover....)

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Old 05-12-2009, 05:41 PM   #8811
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James D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate complimentsJames D. Macdonald is so great that we've run out of appropriate compliments
Quote:
Originally Posted by motormind View Post
That's disheartening in its stupidity. It's no wonder the book stores are overflowing with crap.
If the author is functionally illiterate, or has a written something that your house doesn't publish (or pretty much anything in Slushkiller categories 1-6) you'll be able to tell in a paragraph--or less.

As to readers in bookstores, heaven love 'em, have you ever watched them? There are no more selfish individuals on earth than readers picking books. "What's in it for me?" is their battle cry. If you can get them to read one paragraph you're already ahead. To get them there, they have to have pulled the book off the shelf (rather than walking right by it), and they have to have glanced at the cover and not instantly put it back. They may not even open to the first paragraph. They may open to page 134. So you have to make sure that all of your paragraphs are good, not just the first one that you've workshopped to death.
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Old 05-12-2009, 05:43 PM   #8812
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Judg View Post
Sure, why not?

It's perfectly standard, normal, international English.
I was going to say "no way, Judg", but I went back and re-read the sentence. I misread it first time around. I confused "Milburn" the town name with the character. I can see how a town could have "its" autumn, but not a character. I don't have the sentence in sight now, but I think it read:

"It was colder than Milburn expected its autumn to be..."

That's fair enough. I thought Milburn was the name of the lawyer. Yes, I know, I have the attention span of a goldfish.
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Old 05-12-2009, 05:51 PM   #8813
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If it's any consolation, I read it wrong the first time too. It takes a while before names stick in my head and I don't normally expect a town to expect something.
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Old 05-12-2009, 05:56 PM   #8814
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Stupid Comics
Quote:
Originally Posted by James D. Macdonald View Post
Stories and artwork gone dreadfully, dreadfully wrong.

(These are far worse than the Archie Meets the Punisher crossover....)

Sometimes you can learn more from failure than from success.
I thought they were quite good!
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Old 05-12-2009, 07:54 PM   #8815
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James D. Macdonald View Post
The genre is Urban Fantasy, and it was written without Dr. Doyle's assistance.
This is a strong read where most of what UJ offers us as advice can be seen in action. It is also a good place to look at the way UJ's character development and his story arc play out over an extended work. It also would have made a good Turn the Page example.
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Old 05-12-2009, 09:22 PM   #8816
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Cool
It still seems more proper, ie: more British, to me. But that's just me.
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Old 05-12-2009, 09:52 PM   #8817
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Cool
After giving some thought to it, I realized something. I am thoroughly an idiot. I'm not taking into account the fact that just because it happens to be less standard than what I hear around here, there is nothing unusual about the sentence.

I think that most of the people around here learned English from only slang. It's sad, in a way, but it's just my area's, and more appropriately, my circle of friends' way of speech. Just remember, we were a group of alcoholics, illegal substance users (not me, I only lived to drink at the time), and high school drop-outs. I only made it through ninth grade. So when I think of speech, alot of what I'm used to hearing in person still holds out as what I think of as normal.

The group of "friends" I had are a big inspiration for A Birthday Suicide. The MC becomes a coke dealer and a hit man. The setting is based on my area, and the speech patterns standard for what I hear

Hold on... my wife thinks her water may have just broken. BYE!
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Old 05-12-2009, 10:08 PM   #8818
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Hold on... my wife thinks her water may have just broken. BYE!
Wow! Better get that fixed right away!
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Old 05-12-2009, 10:10 PM   #8819
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I noticed two AWers have won IPPY (Independent Publishers) awards, Maestrowork being one of them.

What are Independent Publishers? Is this self-publishing? Or POD?
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Old 05-12-2009, 10:30 PM   #8820
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smsarber: Nice catch noticing the expectation in your observation. Guess you're not an idiot.

A person's viewpoint is that person's trump card. Noticing concepts projected onto others tends to activate subtle inner polishing and balancing.
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Old 05-12-2009, 11:57 PM   #8821
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smsarber View Post
After giving some thought to it, I realized something. I am thoroughly an idiot. I'm not taking into account the fact that just because it happens to be less standard than what I hear around here, there is nothing unusual about the sentence.

I think that most of the people around here learned English from only slang. It's sad, in a way, but it's just my area's, and more appropriately, my circle of friends' way of speech. Just remember, we were a group of alcoholics, illegal substance users (not me, I only lived to drink at the time), and high school drop-outs. I only made it through ninth grade. So when I think of speech, alot of what I'm used to hearing in person still holds out as what I think of as normal.

The group of "friends" I had are a big inspiration for A Birthday Suicide. The MC becomes a coke dealer and a hit man. The setting is based on my area, and the speech patterns standard for what I hear

Hold on... my wife thinks her water may have just broken. BYE!
No, you're not an idiot. Idiots never question themselves. Best solution is to read widely, to get a feel for different styles of language and thought.

Probably too late, but all the best to your wife! Looking forward to good news.
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Old 05-13-2009, 12:09 AM   #8822
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James D. Macdonald View Post
Readers in bookshops, editorial assistants with slush--one paragraph may be all you get.

Make that paragraph count. Here we have a person in a place with a (very minor) problem. The person is in motion. But that's all we have.

If the longer, more descriptive sentences aren't what you're looking for, this book may not be for you.

(Someone who has read and enjoyed a previous book by the same author will likely give more of a chance, but that's stripped out by not posting titles/authors when we play this game.)
It's all very subjective and Jim (as usual) is right. Sometimes you only get one paragraph.
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Old 05-13-2009, 12:14 AM   #8823
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So you have to make sure that all of your paragraphs are good, not just the first one that you've workshopped to death.
I rarely "workshop" paragraphs. If I don't like a paragraph or scene, I delete it and rewrite it from scratch. That usually gives faster and better results.
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Old 05-13-2009, 12:15 AM   #8824
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Woo! Grats, Sarber.

Everyone,

In my revision of my novel, I've come to the realization that I need an additional, minor villain. Have any of you ever created a new one, or changed a character to be one? If so, how did you go about it? Any advice on this would be welcome.
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Old 05-13-2009, 01:50 AM   #8825
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Quote:
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I noticed two AWers have won IPPY (Independent Publishers) awards, Maestrowork being one of them.

What are Independent Publishers? Is this self-publishing? Or POD?
An independent publisher is a commercial publisher that is not owned by a larger company. Victoria blogged about the vanity presses trying to usurp this designation just the other day.
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