Learn Writing with Uncle Jim, Volume 1

[callalily61]

ETA: *whew* Thank you.

And I knew there was no such thing as privacy anymore eons ago, when I did back-end database research and bank takeover work. I tell my parents this and they still don't believe me.

[James D. Macdonald]

If y'all want to put up that sig widget yourself (or put it on your web page, or whatever), you can get it here: http://www.danasoft.com (callalily61--only you can see that you're logging in from work. Everyone else sees tomorrow's lottery numbers.)


Duncan: Which scene would that be? I'd hate to have cut it in the final draft if you're waiting for it.

[callalily61]

LOL on "tomorrow's lottery numbers".

[Duncan J Macdonald]

Originally Posted by James D. Macdonald

If y'all want to put up that sig widget yourself (or put it on your web page, or whatever), you can get it here: http://www.danasoft.com (callalily61--only you can see that you're logging in from work. Everyone else sees tomorrow's lottery numbers.)


Duncan: Which scene would that be? I'd hate to have cut it in the final draft if you're waiting for it.

That would be Satan and Peter discussing flattery.

[Duncan J Macdonald]

Originally Posted by callalily61

LOL on "tomorrow's lottery numbers".

I was looking over your shoulder -- after tomorrow, I am so buying a private island.

[callalily61]

Originally Posted by Duncan J Macdonald

I was looking over your shoulder -- after tomorrow, I am so buying a private island.

My dad flies Cessnas and we have GPS--I am so crashing your party.

[Blue Sky]

Jim, I've noticed how easy it is to convey flashbacks and reminiscence in a comic. In Girl Genius it's done in monotone. I don't recall how I've seen it done in black and white, perhaps off-frame tags?

Do you have anything to say regarding the written equivalent? The reason I ask is that the color verses monocrome nature in a comic shows so transparently, while standing out like a sore thumb. I had never considered written recall as being so different from the main body, but actually, it is quite jarring if not done well. Unless, of course, that is the desired effect.

Thanks.

[Duncan J Macdonald]

Originally Posted by callalily61

My dad flies Cessnas and we have GPS--I am so crashing your party.

Note Bene: For all of you trying to horn in on my Private Island in posts and rep point comments: What exactly do you not grok about private?

<grumble grumble Gosh Darn Kids>

[callalily61]

Originally Posted by Duncan J Macdonald

Note Bene: For all of you trying to horn in on my Private Island in posts and rep point comments: What exactly do you not grok about private?

<grumble grumble Gosh Darn Kids>

Pfft. Privacy is a distant memory once the little monsters invade your life, no?

And those were *my* future winning lottery numbers you Bogarted, so you shouldn't be surprised at a certain Mistress of Evil appearing on your sandy beach.

Men. Think even a whole island is the equivalent of *their* chair.

[James D. Macdonald]

There are lots of ways to show out-of-sequence scenes in novels. The big question is why do you want to do 'em? Strict chronology should only be broken for the very best of reasons.

Coming right out and saying, "Four years earlier...." is probably the easiest. Time/date/place tags in chapter headings are another common trick.

[smsarber]

Thanks for showing us that Big Brother is always watching... But who knew Big Brother's name was Uncle Jim, not Sam? LOL

And now that you've replaced the widget we can go about our daily lives and forget all about it. Back to plotting (world domination) my next story (about the overthrow of civilization) and cooking pancakes (with plastique instead of maple syrup).

[Blue Sky]

Originally Posted by James D. Macdonald

There are lots of ways to show out-of-sequence scenes in novels. The big question is why do you want to do 'em? Strict chronology should only be broken for the very best of reasons.

Yes, only for the very best of reasons. I don't mess with readers without cause. Glad they showed up in the first place.

Coming right out and saying, "Four years earlier...." is probably the easiest. Time/date/place tags in chapter headings are another common trick.

Yes. And in addition to and beyond the easy ways? I tend to address the fluidity of time, place, and consciousness often, so for times I break chronology, any new tools or fresh looks at the tried and true would be welcome companions. Any examples?

Also, do you ever shift the texture of the writing, as a monochrome is to color? Thinking about it, I realize that I've done it, but I don't recall where I've read this effect. So many books over so many years.

On that aspect, I had positive feedback on the change of texture. In that case, I switched directly from thinking while sitting in a sweat to speaking internally from a former life as a Native American woman, re-living a salient experience. It worked nicely, surprising me. (Whew! You know?) The easy part was the fact that it was a change of speaker. I'm trying to recall how or whether I've shifted the writing for same speaker recall. I will now, surely. At a minimum, the mood would often be different.

Thanks again.

[James D. Macdonald]

In one of my own works, I went from first person to third person for the flashback sequences.

[cooeedownunder]

Originally Posted by James D. Macdonald

In one of my own works, I went from first person to third person for the flashback sequences.

I think that works well, but I have yet to read one that went from 3rd to first, but I guess that would work just the same, except that I am thinking because 1st is so very close, that after hearing third, the reader would be wanting to hear more of that 1st voice.

[vox]

Originally Posted by James D. Macdonald

In one of my own works, I went from first person to third person for the flashback sequences.

Ahh, yes...
In Country
ca. 1980

And very nicely done, I might add. Reading it right now.

[SilverPhoenix]

I think POV change always needs a really good reason or to be used for a certain effect/goal. I don't think changing to 3rd makes the reader miss the 1st or anything.

I was reading American Gods today and skipped about 10 pages because of a POV change...it was like a strange mix of a distant third and ominescent and I didn't like it one bit.

[smsarber]

How can you skip ten pages and still know what's going on? In my mind, either you suffer through a part you don't care for, or you stop reading. Skipping ten pages seems like you'd be stuck in limbo for at least a few pages more where you pick back up. But that's just me, and I'm a glutton for punishment--so I suffer through as much as I can.

[SilverPhoenix]

depends what the 10 pages are about it was a deviation from the POV so it was more like an interruption to me -- when it went back to the normal character it was just the original story continued. it was probably foreshadowing or something? if i get confused later i can force myself to go back and read it.

I suffered through a 100 pages of a Patterson book once - then I gave up. I gave up on that Dragon Tattoo book too. Sometimes a girl gets just a little fussy There's a lot of books out there to read, so I don't have the best attention span if one's not quite pulling its weight.

[euclid]

I gave up on American Gods after about 10 chapters.

Reading Kurt Vonnegut now.

Cat's Cradle
Slaughterhouse Five.

Thanks for the suggestion, Steve.

[smsarber]

That's valid. James Patterson is one of my favorite writers, and I literally gobble up his work, and I have a seperate question for the masses about him But first, I will say this, yes, there are an endless supply of books, so you can't spend too much time on something that just isn't right for you. I will sometimes skim over some paragraphs, but I've just personally never skipped pages--to each his/her own. If it's like you said, and when you got back to the original POV it was like you never left the story, then that's a forseeable action. Like how some people skip Prologues, which I don't understand because they are a part of the story as a whole. But we've discussed that before.

Now, James Patterson. I read recently that he doesn't write his own books anymore. He says he has too many ideas and not enough time. So he has a team of writers that write for him. He gives the ideas, and they are written by this team. If you look at his newer books, they're always: James Patterson and Howard Roughan, or James Patterson and Maxine Paetro. I don't think he does this with the Alex Cross series, though. So, what do you guys think of a writer who doesn't write his own work, at least not all of it? And do I not have all the information on this?

PS: I read this in a friends blog on MySpace, Writer Leonard Hilley Jr. Author of Predators of Darkness. He said it was in the Jan. Issue of The Writer(?) magazine. I have to check if that was the publication.

[SilverPhoenix]

Hm sounds like a rumour I've heard. Personally I find it off-putting that a writer would do that. I mean, it's not really the ideas that matter so much - it's how they get written down on the page that counts. I can't imagine the stories are as good if he's not writing them. And I doubt his fans would be too happy about it.

I used to really like his books; some of the very old ones I read when younger. The last one I read that I couldn't get into years back was called 'the spider' or something like that - and I never read anything by him again since.

btw~ I never skip prologues. I mean, they're usually so short it takes 5 minutes tops to read them. No point in skipping that.

[smsarber]

That would be "Along Came a Spider," in my opinion a great book, made into a great movie with Morgan Freeman as Alex Cross, same as "Kiss the Girls." But I think James writes a portion of the books, like a very detailed outline, then the other writer fills it in, then James finishes the product. Whatever the case, he still has an astronomically huge fanbase, including me, and I still read every book he puts out. I personally really respect his program for getting kids into reading.

Euclid, glad you credit me for the Vonnegut suggestion, but it was really Uncle Jim who should get the credit for that... I was only reposting one of his posts. But what the hell--I'll take the credit

[MiltonPope]

Originally Posted by smsarber

So, what do you guys think of a writer who doesn't write his own work, at least not all of it? And do I not have all the information on this?

When I was a teenager in the '60s, Ellery Queen set me on fire (yes, I was that kind of geek). I only recently found out that this was just the time when he (they) started farming the books out. It didn't matter much.

Leslie Charteris did the same thing with the Saint books, another favorite.

Dick Francis has been pretty good for decades, but through the '90s his books were golden. Then his wife died, and since then he's back to being pretty good. It seems she was heavily involved in his books for awhile.

There have to be more, but these are some I'm familiar with.

--Milton

[hshd]

Mr. Macdonald,

Just wanted to say hi and thank you. Been lurking for a while and read all the posts in this thread. Alot of good and useful information.

[smsarber]

FOTSGreg, you might be able to find an answer in the "Index to the Learn Writing..." thread.

But we did discuss it, I don't remember when, it couldn't have been that long ago, though. I believe it boiled down to preferrence and what works. I personally like italics for thought sequences.