Ellora's Cave Publishing, Inc.

EC authors should be saving those emails and loop discussions, however. That information probably will be part of the requested documents in a bankruptcy court.

I only have one old novella with EC, so I honestly don't pay much attention to my royalty cheques, but...

http://avrilashton.com/blog/on-royaltywatch/

Yikes.

Captcha said:

I only have one old novella with EC, so I honestly don't pay much attention to my royalty cheques, but...

http://avrilashton.com/blog/on-royaltywatch/

Yikes.

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Yikes, indeed. Though I have to say boycotting Elora's Cave would only compound the problem.

lweinberg18 said:

Yikes, indeed. Though I have to say boycotting Elora's Cave would only compound the problem.

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She's not telling readers to boycott the whole of Ellora's Cave. She's telling them not to buy her titles with them for which she isn't getting paid. I would do the same thing.

At one time they were at the top of my list as being one of the best e pubs around. It's sad. I feel for the authors.

lweinberg18 said:

Yikes, indeed. Though I have to say boycotting Elora's Cave would only compound the problem.

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The boycotting strategy is one I've seen used by other authors dealing with non-paying publishers - it seems like a last-ditch move when the author has essentially given up on ever getting their money and at least wants to be sure the publisher isn't benefiting from the work. But it might also be an attempt to get rights back - my EC contract, as I recall, said something about getting rights back if sales fell below a certain level. So maybe this author is trying to pull that trigger? I don't know.

Their pricing is a joke. My 18,000 word story is $4.49 ON SALE! They actually want people to pay $5.60 for it. Ridiculous!
But I guess if Avril is right I wouldn't see the money either way. Ugh.

Got the interesting news today that both my editor, previously freelance, has been retained as staff, and that they have a release date for the Quickie I've signed with them. Guess I'll be seeing soon enough how things are going. Fingers very crossed!

EvolvingK said:

Got the interesting news today that both my editor, previously freelance, has been retained as staff, and that they have a release date for the Quickie I've signed with them. Guess I'll be seeing soon enough how things are going. Fingers very crossed!

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Very interesting. I wonder what they're paying her with.

brainstorm77 said:

She's not telling readers to boycott the whole of Ellora's Cave. She's telling them not to buy her titles with them for which she isn't getting paid. I would do the same thing.

At one time they were at the top of my list as being one of the best e pubs around. It's sad. I feel for the authors.

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I was referring to the commenters who said they were boycotting Ellora's Cave and telling their friends to do the same.

EvolvingK said:

Got the interesting news today that both my editor, previously freelance, has been retained as staff, and that they have a release date for the Quickie I've signed with them. Guess I'll be seeing soon enough how things are going. Fingers very crossed!

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That's great news! I really hope my editor is that lucky. I really liked her. Her name was also Elizabeth so fingers crossed! lol

junierob said:

Very interesting. I wonder what they're paying her with.

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That's assuming they're paying her at all. If authors aren't getting royalties, chances are good the freelancers aren't being paid either.

absitinvidia said:

That's assuming they're paying her at all. If authors aren't getting royalties, chances are good the freelancers aren't being paid either.

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She's been added as a staff editor, not a freelancer.

But shifting to salaries instead of asking editors to wait for royalties WOULD demand a cash infusion. The company would need money NOW, instead of doling out shares when the books are bought. I wonder if the transition is being funded on the backs of authors?

I'm wondering how they're funding Romanticon this year.

No. God, no. Nor should they be accepting new submissions until they iron out an actual, responsible recovery plan for the company. Probably starting with a buy-out and getting everything away from Engler's mismanagement. This is all beginning to sound a lot like Silver Publishing. I feel for the authors and staff who are caught in the middle (and I'm shamefully glad I'm not one of them.)

Looked over my EC ebook library last night. So many good books and great authors. I can't say that I've loved every single EC book I've read in online sample form. But every one that 'grabbed' me enough to merit purchase - is wonderful.

Filigree said:

No. God, no. Nor should they be accepting new submissions until they iron out an actual, responsible recovery plan for the company. Probably starting with a buy-out and getting everything away from Engler's mismanagement.

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Wait, they're still open to submissions??????? That's wild.

lweinberg18 said:

Wait, they're still open to submissions??????? That's wild.

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Well, of course they are. They need fresh victims...eh, authors, to sell to pay off all the people they owe.

And they won't be able to cancel the convention without losing even more money they probably don't have to pay people back.

Last year, when authors started reporting problems due to "software issues" I knew there was a funk hovering over that house. Then when they blamed their problems on a sudden drop in Amazon income, I knew it was bullshit. Yes, there was a general slump industry-wide late last year that you can attribute to the US government shutdown last fall right before the holidays, but every author I've talked to who's been tracking their sales for several years, indie- and self-pubbed alike, has agreed that it's been improving again this year as the economy picked up.

Yes, shades of Silver Publishing, which I called out a while before it finally imploded.

Prepare to see the circling of the wagon by the loyalists (ie biggest sellers and most visible writers who are likely still getting paid) who will say oh, EC is FINE, and how dare you tarnish their good name, and then the Us vs. Them attacks by loyalists on the people who dare speak up and tell the truth. It's like a sadly predictable script of people with Stockholm syndrome.

Do I hope they pull it out? Yeah, because I don't want to see friends screwed.

Do I THINK they'll pull it out? Um, no. Not if countless other small presses in the past are any indication. So far, they're following the typical failure script to the letter. Their best bets would be to either sell out to a larger house asap so stuff can get straightened out, or to revert all rights immediately and then file bankruptcy 6 months later. They've shot their authors (and editors, etc) in the foot over the years with their high pricing. Now, it's finally come back to bite them in the ass. You have to be willing to quickly change to follow the industry, and with so many self-pubs flooding the market, and now with Kindle Unlimited, small indie presses must be willing to look at their pricing structures and see where they can make changes that will keep their bottom line in the black and yet still stay competitive.

I think they are not at all typical to the extent that they are one of the first, largest, and longest lasting erotic romance epublishers and people have being saying they are not long for this earth since 2009. Will this be the actual end for them? Possibly. But it is hardly difficult to forecast given a 5 year history of warning signs.

But Ellora's Cave isn't small. They did extremely well for a number of years. I know they have lost some of their reputation and status during the last number of years, but it makes me wonder what happened to all the profit? I would have assumed they have a lot of money set aside to cover expenses and reinvest in the company.

As for boycotting, I won't buy their books until they pay their authors. I'm not saying everyone should, but as a fellow author I'm doing what I feel is right. I am a longtime customer, I remember buying their books when they had a store on Ebay. That wasn't yesterday. And I do hope all their authors get paid soon.

madmumbler said:

And they won't be able to cancel the convention without losing even more money they probably don't have to pay people back.

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Having worked on some concoms, you have two choices: go ahead with the convention and lose A LOT of money or cancel and lose twice the amount you would have lost if you'd gone through with it. So, yeah, either way they're hosed unless they have a budget that's entirely separate from the publishing arm and aren't robbing Peter and Paul to pay Mary.

I agree, BenPanced -- it's way too late to cancel the con. Not only would they still be contractually liable for all the hotel/food costs, they've already paid their speakers/airfare, etc. Plus, if they cancel, anyone who has paid an airfare to get there as an attendee could sue (even a spurious lawsuit has to be defended and that's expensive).

It's going ahead according to the Ellora's Cave FB page. That should be interesting.

Link: http://ecromanticon.com/

Yes, should be interesting--I am almost tempted to try and attend out of morbid curioustiy. But I agree that cancelling a convention is a short cut to bankruptcy even for an otherwise solvent entity. You can be in the whole over $100,000 easy, quite possibly a lot more.