New languages

tanzy · Oct 22, 2007

I have been working on my fantasy WIP and this question has been in the back of my mind for awhile now...

What am I going to do to create an "artificial language" for my story.

It seems there are many ways to do this, and "the best way" depends a lot on the structure of the WIP itself. Can anyone with a little more experience (more than my 0exp) shed some light on what tends to work best for them?
Right now I have been using my writers block time to string weird components of language together into things that sound neat, or dark and scary.

The thing that gets me is I am going to need rules and consistency. I want to expose my readers to a variety of different cultures in my world.

Then another major thought, I can't have a bunch of unreadable text. This is meant to be read after all. A way to cut down on the strange language while still delivering a healthy dose would be to expose readers to only phrases. For example,

the musty old tome bore an ancient dialect of rutabaganese.

This is a magical text. Blah blah blah...

At the end there is a phrase Jimmy can't seem to decipher.

Kuku Kikala rutabega

Shweta · Oct 22, 2007

Tanzy, I don't know if this will help you, but I have a thread that explores aspects of languages here:

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34133

(I should work on it, but hey)

The best advice I have, if you don't want to put too much time in, is either a) pick an obscure language and steal ruthlessly
or b) decide a few things about the sounds in your language, the way sounds and words fit together, stuff like that -- and stick to your rules.
c) kidnap a linguist who likes con-languages*. Okay, I don't recommend force, but if you can find one and buy them dinner they'll probably delightedly create your language for you.

* constructed languages

tanzy · Oct 22, 2007

thanks for the link. this looks like it will help me :hooray:

Edit: wow, not only is this a big help, it is also very interesting. thanks again.

Kentuk · Oct 23, 2007

What is the POV? How do your characters handle the various languages?

Who are you? When you write to you glorify the English language or do you speak several tongues. Your story is going to reflect you. If you have a lot of insight to share concerning languages then you may want to develop this aspect. Please remember that many people's eyes tend to glaze over when confronted with unpronoucable words of indeterminate meaning. Unless you are writing for a very high brow crowd you should aim low.

I would say that once you have established differences and difficulties you can ease up and tend to ignore the mechanics.

JimmyB27 · Oct 23, 2007

I'm doing it the easy way - by avoiding it altogether

Perle_Rare · Oct 23, 2007

Wow! Thanks for the link, Shweta. It will take me a while to read through it but what I've read so far is fascinating! I'm sure it will come in handy for me as well.

Sassee · Oct 23, 2007

Just a tip for when you sit down to write -

Less is more to readers. In an entire book I would only include a handful of actual foreign sentences, and *only* use those when you purposefully intend the characters to misunderstand each other. One to two sentences is ideal. Otherwise, I would resort to describing how the language sounds (are there a lot of clicks, maybe it sounds gutteral, is it nasal, does it sound like birds singing it's so beautiful, etc) and then if you really need to know what they are saying have an obligatory translater present for most of the dialogue.

If you really must include more, just sprinkle a single word here and there that will make it easy for readers to translate by context. Maybe someone is speaking English (or whatever your novel is written in) and they slip to their native language to describe an object or action.

Overuse of constructed foreign languages is no longer fun for the readers - it simply becomes tiresome to read.

Voyager · Oct 23, 2007

Because I already speak two languages fluently, as does Shweta (well at least two that I know for sure) this might have been a little easier, but I went with the ancient languages, took root words from them, then loosely used the rules of Spanish to expand on them. I got word lists and dictionaries for ancient Sumerian, Akkadian, Sanskrit, Anatolian, Tamasheq, and Ahmaric. I also cheated really bad and used Basque, then I stole like the wind. All that to get the six faux words that I actually used, though I have a created word list of about 50 words, and to name maybe a dozen characters and two places. After all that work, I understood that moderation is the key.

Red-Green · Oct 23, 2007

Sassee said:
*only* use those when you purposefully intend the characters to misunderstand each other. One to two sentences is ideal. Otherwise, I would resort to describing how the language sounds (are there a lot of clicks, maybe it sounds gutteral, is it nasal, does it sound like birds singing it's so beautiful, etc) and then if you really need to know what they are saying have an obligatory translater present for most of the dialogue.

Excellent advice on both counts--give the reader an idea of how the language sounds, but only use it when you intend to obfuscate something for your characters as well as your reader.

Once you've established this basic system you can then use the idea of "foreign languages" without making your reader tear his/her hair out. For instance, you can simply say, "The two men spoke Rutabegan, and although their body language was hostile, I could only pick out the words, monkey, water, and High Ugly Priestess." No need to spell out the conversation in Rutabegan. It works in the revers if your POV character is speaking Rutabegan. Establish he is, then use other characters' behavior to illustrate that they don't understand him.

MDSchafer · Oct 23, 2007

I'm against made up languages and invented names for the most part. If I see a book has a lot of names I can't pronounce and they speak in a language that I can't understand through context I stop reading. I understand there is a more hard core fan base who really enjoy this, but I think the more you use the more you narrow the potential readership.

If you are going to make up a language I feel you should really know what you're doing. I'm working on Robin Hood story and one of the big questions I'm facing with is whether to write the dialogue in Middle English, modern English, whether or not to affect an English accent, if so which one and how best to write that on the page.

Nateskate · Oct 23, 2007

There are many ways to approach this. I think what's written above has some helpful thoughts.

To make words believable, you'll need a few common elements in the language. In Tolkien's world, he used Eo- Horse, Eowyn, Eomir, ThEOdin.

Words grew by combining sounds. Jerusalem is not just a name, it's a collection of words strung together. Salem means peace. And I think Shalom comes from the same root. Jeru-Salem is a very symbolic name.

In Hebrew you will find this principle. GabriEL, SamuEL, MichaEL, to signify belonging to God. Noticably, Lucifer does not have an EL in it.

In Tolkien's world, I believe "EL" means stars??? And Elves -Elrond GaladriEL...etc has something to do with love of the stars.

I don't have the energy to create entire languages, but in my stories I used these kinds of elements, but cheated in the sense that the reader simply has to take my word that something means something, as there are only a few consistent roots throughout the story.

Higgins · Oct 23, 2007

Nateskate said:
In Hebrew you will find this principle. GabriEL, SamuEL, MichaEL, to signify belonging to God. Noticably, Lucifer does not have an EL in it.

"Lucifer" isn't Hebraic so even if it had an el (as in El Kabong) it would not be an "el" signifying the Elohim ( אֱלוֹהִים , אלהים

Gray Rose · Oct 23, 2007

Kidnap a linguist. Seriously. I have been kidnapped many times

I've almost taught a class on this even, but the Powers that Be pulled it off at the last moment.

That said, languages embedded in books always work better if you know what you're doing. Two obvious examples are Tolkien and CJ Cherryh, both linguists.

Nateskate: Lucifer is not Hebrew but Latin. It translates Hebrew Hilel ben Shahar 'shining, son of dawn'. The Latin translation comes not directly from Hebrew, but through Greek Heosphoros 'morning star'. Just FYI.

Zelenka · Oct 23, 2007

I think I said this somewhere else, but I've found if I pick up a book and in the blurb there are a host of unpronounceable words, names and titles, I put it straight back down again. It's a personal preference, mind you, and maybe a slightly hypocritical one too - my first fantasy book I wrote, I made up about a dozen languages for it and did have huge sentences in it. I'm a language nut though and so that sort of thing appeals to me, I like playing with grammar, with the development of languages. I had several comments though, including a really good phonecall conversation with an agent, regarding the names and languages and such making the book less accessible to readers and I took that to heart. Nowadays I prefer to stick to generic terms if possible. What I like doing is finding maybe an archaic word or old fashioned one, something that will sound familiar but isn't commonly used.

I think if you're really into languages and into your constructed language, then have fun with it, but when writing I would say remember the reader. You don't want them to need a phrasebook to read and understand your story. So I would say keep the made-up language to a minimum, and as other folk have suggested, speak to someone who's into languages and has an ear for them.

Deirdre · Oct 23, 2007

I usually use real languages; they're generally weirder than anything I'd come up with.

Ravenlocks · Oct 23, 2007

I haven't been kidnapped yet, but I have a linguistics background and have studied multiple languages, and I love inventing languages for my fiction. But I also subscribe to the "less is more" theory. In my current WIP I was too lazy to work on the languages before I started writing, and I found I could just say the MC didn't understand or she muddled her way through with sign language or she wondered if the interpreter was giving her the right translation, etc. The only time I needed a sentence was when she had to memorize something in a foreign language to repeat to someone else for a translation, and even then I got around it by saying she memorized it and repeated it but not saying what specific words she memorized.

Oops, I did have one foreign word. It was a title that meant "lord" in a foreign language, and it came up repeatedly in reference to a certain character who originally hailed from a foreign country. When he wasn't called by that word but was called by the English "lord" instead, that was an indication that he was being accepted as a lord in his adopted country, the country where my story is set. That's still in there.

Incidentally, I'm one of those people who likes made-up names in my fantasy. If you're inventing a world, I think it makes sense to invent naming systems to go with it, unless you've moved Wales or France or India or China or the Mayan Empire or something into your world. I still care more about the story than the names, though.

Gray Rose · Oct 23, 2007

I have made-up names, of course, and four constructed languages in the WIP. So far my betas loved the made-up names.

The four constructed languages appear in only one POV, where the character is a linguist and so is immersed in this stuff. All other POVs have no language, except for an occasional word for monsters that do not exist in English.

Yes, I agree that it's a very good idea not to exaggerate with conlangs.

oscuridad · Oct 23, 2007

I liked Tolkien's get out in the intro to the Hobbit - just explain that it is a translation with a couple of examples of specifics (I think he talked about dwarfs beign the correct plural for dwarf but used dwarves to denote Durin's folk) - a very clever slight of hand, I thought.

AnnieColleen · Oct 23, 2007

Gray Rose said:
All other POVs have no language...

So this is a graphic novel? :tongue

(I may need to kidnap a couple of y'all before my NaNo book is done.

)

Gray Rose · Oct 23, 2007

AnnieColleen said:
So this is a graphic novel?

(I may need to kidnap a couple of y'all before my NaNo book is done. )

I knew somebody was going to pounce on this!

Azraelsbane · Oct 23, 2007

Sokal said:
"Lucifer" isn't Hebraic so even if it had an el (as in El Kabong) it would not be an "el" signifying the Elohim ( אֱלוֹהִים , אלהים

Agreed. The angelic names are Hebrew and Lucifer is straight Latin. Also, many religious scholars agree that it is a misread that connects the name Lucifer to Satan. But it's become so popular no one pays attention to that.

ANYWAY, I love that Tolkien made up his own language; the man was a genius in many ways. However, I'm not big on made up languages, and find them a bit distracting/annoying as a few have already mentioned. I'd suggest borrowing from other languages if you must, but meh...

Language plays a huge role in my novels, and out of about 300k words, I think there are two short sayings in Latin, even though it's the mother tongue of over half my cast of characters.

I suggest you take some time to decide if you really need to create a new language or simply allude to one.

Gray Rose · Oct 23, 2007

Azraelsbane said:
ANYWAY, I love that Tolkien made up his own language; the man was a genius in many ways. However, I'm not big on made up languages, and find them a bit distracting/annoying as a few have already mentioned. I'd suggest borrowing from other languages if you must, but meh...

I think that means you don;t want to read my second POV after all

Higgins · Oct 23, 2007

Azraelsbane said:
Agreed. The angelic names are Hebrew and Lucifer is straight Latin. Also, many religious scholars agree that it is a misread that connects the name Lucifer to Satan. But it's become so popular no one pays attention to that.

bueno, Azraelsbane. Since you have "Azrael" in your user name, I'm sure you know how Angel/fallen Angel names actually work.

oscuridad · Oct 24, 2007

Tolkien was a Philologist and he borrowed from Welsh and, I think, Hebrew for much of his language work. I might be wrong about the Hebrew.

Shweta · Oct 24, 2007

Several celtic languages, I think. The other source was Finnish.

But yeah, to echo everyone else -- he made entire languages, but you'll notice very little of them is in LotR*.

*Outside the appendices!

New languages

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