First Aid for an Arrow Wound

TheIT · Dec 10, 2007

In my fantasy WIP, I've got two characters who get shot with crossbow bolts in the back. They're my MC's bodyguards. Both men are sitting on horses at the time and most likely fall off when they get hit, but I don't want the characters to die. My MC will tend to them for a short time until help arrives with a wagon to bring them to a healer. The world has a preindustrial level of technology.

So, what I'm looking for is:

1) Does this sound feasible? I figure if the bolt strikes in the back near the shoulder or in an arm, it would provide a disabling wound which would take the character out of the fight but not kill him outright. Even if the bolt doesn't hurt them enough, the fall from the horse will. I need both guards to end up either unconscious or so distracted that they don't see what else is happening.

2) What is the proper first aid for such a wound? My MC will tend to them until help arrives. He's a swordsman in training, so he's got some field training for dealing with battle wounds. My instinct is to have them lay on their stomachs, leave the bolt in place, and pack the wound with cloth to prevent bleeding. What else?

Thanks in advance!

zenwriter · Dec 10, 2007

I found the following website, describing first aid in the event of an arrow wound:

http://www.bowhunter-ed.com/mi/course/ch8_first_aid.htm

tallus83 · Dec 10, 2007

A few things you need to keep in mind.

A crossbow bolt will penetrate armor. It has a lot more power behind it than a pulled bow. A hit where you described will probably cause considerable damage if the victim is not wearing armor. A wound in a lung will kill them.

Horseshoes · Dec 10, 2007

First aid is as good as it's going to get for pre-industrial care, so up the ante and pull the thing out. This is not what we'd do if we can get a pt to a modern hospital, even a decent field set-up, any time in the next couple of days, but pre-industry...yes. Let there be enough distance/clothing, that the bolt stoped at the scapula, not penetrating the bone (which a modern cross-bow, close enough range on a strong draw and with a great tip would do). You want the bone to stop it and not break so you don't bring lung trauma into the equation.

TheIT · Dec 10, 2007

Thanks, this helps. Damaged is fine, I just don't want dead. My MC is going to be agonizing enough about getting his guards wounded; they don't need to die.

I was thinking of something like what Horseshoes said. If the bolt hits the scapula, that should be sufficient. Both guards are wearing chain armor over a padded undergarment plus a surcoat and cloak on the outside, so that's several layers right there.

They're being ambushed by footpads. First shot hits the first guard in the back/scapula and does the most damage. Second guard & horse begin to react, and second shot hits him but with not quite as good aim. Less damage, perhaps, and maybe the horse startles and runs. Third shot is aimed at my MC who's standing on the ground but the bolt misses and grazes his horse as he ducks. After that, things get interesting.

They've got magical healing in this world, so my MC just needs to keep the wounded guards alive long enough for help to reach them.

GeorgeK · Dec 11, 2007

They would be low velocity wounds but a big missile so it depends upon what gets hit rather than what organs are near what gets hit as in the case of modern gun shot wounds. If your MC has magic healing and antibiotics then it's feasible they might survive if tended within the hour and they pray to the proper gods of luck. If they aren't as lucky then they die within the hour and less lucky they lay in bed for an agonizing six weeks getting better and worse until the reaper finds their correct address. If you just want to play odds at least one of them should die.

The most absolute first aid is "Don't pull the freakin thing out! wait for the healers!"

Horseshoes · Dec 11, 2007

George is certainly right about the real world: as a paramedic dealing with stabbing victims, I never, ever pulled out a knife or other foreign object (still don't know if that screwdriver was a Phillips or flat) but in the pre-industrial + fantasy world, I thought the rules were different.
Aren't they, G? I mean, c'mon, if MedicOne can't roll up and delivereth thy to Harborview, if we're gallivanting on ponies and firing crossbows, then the wax ball is verr different, no?

AnnieColleen · Dec 11, 2007

(watching this thread with interest since I'll have the same questions soon enough

)

GeorgeK · Dec 12, 2007

Horseshoes said:
George is certainly right about the real world: as a paramedic dealing with stabbing victims, I never, ever pulled out a knife or other foreign object (still don't know if that screwdriver was a Phillips or flat) but in the pre-industrial + fantasy world, I thought the rules were different.
Aren't they, G? I mean, c'mon, if MedicOne can't roll up and delivereth thy to Harborview, if we're gallivanting on ponies and firing crossbows, then the wax ball is verr different, no?

I guess in fantasy you can do what you want, but there does come a point when readers just put a book down because they can't suspend disbelief any more. Granted that point will be different for different people. For me that point revolves around medical issues. For someone else it will kill a story when the MC "reverses polarity". Scientifically I know that reversing the polarity would almost never work if even be possible, but I won't throw a book out the window over it. My favorite pet peeve is when they give the overly strong invading goblin hordes bad teeth and have them meat eaters.

Pre-industrial had the same rules. The Roman surgeon Galen had the same rules. There was a King of England who refused to wait for the healers and pulled out the arrow on his own. He bled to death on the spot. It was plugging the (presumably) subclavian vessels (from the description in the historybooks). History of England was a long time ago for me so I might not remember the right guy, but I want to say it was King Harald.

TheIT · Dec 12, 2007

Thanks, this type of discussion helps. I'm aiming to make the action convincing. If it helps, I can always change what part of the anatomy gets hit by the crossbow bolt. What I need is for both bodyguards to be disabled so my MC must act alone for the rest of the fight.

Some more details:

The fight occurs on a city street near a noble estate where a healer lives. My MC and his bodyguards are ambushed by footpads while the two bodyguards are still sitting on their horses and my MC has dismounted and is talking with another character (MC2). The footpads attack with three crossbows initially (which takes out the bodyguards), then come in with swords while the crossbows are being reloaded. The horses run off. Brief fight in which two of the footpads are killed, then my MC needs to deal with the aftermath and his two wounded guards.

My MC does not have magical healing abilities but he has some basic field training. He sends MC2 to get help from the noble estate while he does what he can with first aid. It'll take her about ten minutes to get there, another five to convince them to help, another ten to get back with the helpers, then the helpers can magically call to the estate to send a wagon to pick up the wounded and bring them back to the estate.

So, first aid/medical questions:

1) What's a survivable location for the crossbow bolt to hit? Storywise, I want both guards to live but be severely injured, so I've got leeway here in what happens. I'm thinking arm or shoulder as long as the bolt doesn't penetrate the chest cavity. They don't have to be hit in the back. Another possibility is the bolt only grazes the guard but he's injured when he falls off his horse.

2) Based on the answer to 1), what does my MC need to do to keep his men alive by non-magical means for about an hour?

3) Should the healer come with the wagon, or can the wounded be transported by wagon into the estate then be healed? Magical healing in this world accelerates the body's natural healing processes, and can do wonders if the healer can get to the wounded person quickly.

Tsu Dho Nimh · Dec 13, 2007

TheIT said:
1) What's a survivable location for the crossbow bolt to hit? Storywise, I want both guards to live but be severely injured, so I've got leeway here in what happens. I'm thinking arm or shoulder as long as the bolt doesn't penetrate the chest cavity. They don't have to be hit in the back. Another possibility is the bolt only grazes the guard but he's injured when he falls off his horse.

Look at an anatomy book ... there's a heck of a lot of stuff in the "shoulder" that can kill you if it gets damaged. The scapula is fragile in the front to back direction ... and the bone fragment

If you want to disable the guards ... have a bolt graze one horse's rump. It's rodeo time, guard one falls off and takes a hoof to the forearm, breaking the bones. He's out of the fighting

Have bolt two embed itself in guard two's thigh or outer hip ... his horse has gone nuts because horse one kicked it, guard falls off hits head too.

First aid required:

Guard one ... he can sit there and cradle his forearm, hoping he doesn't have to pull a knive and fight one-handed.

Guard two ... Immobilize the arrow shaft by packing some cloth around it at the exit, monitor his pulse and breathing. Check pupils.

Sit there and worry and monitor until a healer can get there. YOu can have the MC seeing swelling of the wound site and restraining his impulse ot do something. It's bleeding inside, if he yanks it, there's a good change of sreious bleeding.

3) Should the healer come with the wagon, or can the wounded be transported by wagon into the estate then be healed? Magical healing in this world accelerates the body's natural healing processes, and can do wonders if the healer can get to the wounded person quickly.[/quote]

Either way ... although the arrow to the thigh should be healed before transport because of th erisk that jostling would increase bleeding.

HeronW · Dec 17, 2007

Arrow wounds

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossbow is great on cross bow types. A poisoned tip needs to get out asap, cauterizing helps there. Gut wounds are usually fatal since they leak fecal matter into the abdomen and sepsis kills.

HeronW · Dec 17, 2007

Arrow wounds

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossbow is great on cross bow types. A poisoned tip needs to get out asap, cauterizing helps there. Gut wounds are usually fatal since they leak fecal matter into the abdomen and sepsis kills.

imagine123 · Feb 20, 2008

hey...

I have the same question about this arrow thing. What if one of your characters is shot in the side (not in the side towards the stomach, but like right by your rib)? What would you do then? Would you push the arrow out and then apply pressure?

Bmwhtly · Feb 21, 2008

Since no-one's mentioned it yet, I may as well drop in what I learned watching Clint Eastwood

I think it was 'Two Mules for Sister Sarah'. He's shot in the shoulder with an arrow, the tip is barbed (as they should be anyway) so he can't pull it back out without causing more damage.
That means it has to go through and out the other side.

But so long as you're pushing an arrow through your shoulder, why not cauterize the wound while you're about it?

So, has someone cut a groove along the top of the arrow and fill it with black-powder.

Light the powder, bang the arrow through. Huzzah! clean wound, no bleeding, no arrow.

I'll not claim that it's realistic, but it was convincing enough.

Sarpedon · Feb 21, 2008

Also a crossbow bolt is shaped differently from a modern hunting arrow. A hunting arrow has barbs and razor sharp edges for maximum wounding. A crossbow bolt has a narrow, sharp head for piercing armor. It probably wouldn't cause much additional damage to merely pull it out, rather than pushing it through. Also, as pointed out it will have higher kinetic energy than an arrow, which leads to additional injuries due to fluid motion (the body can be thought of a watery sack. Water is incompressible, so hitting a water filled sack will cause the energy to be transmitted through it undiminished, possibly causing damage to nearby organs. With a modern high powered rifle, even hits to extremeties can cause this kind of damage to organs. With a crossbow I'm unsure as to how much this would be a factor)

EarlyWriter · Dec 4, 2015

Tsu Dho Nimh said:
Look at an anatomy book ... there's a heck of a lot of stuff in the "shoulder" that can kill you if it gets damaged. The scapula is fragile in the front to back direction ... and the bone fragment

If you want to disable the guards ... have a bolt graze one horse's rump. It's rodeo time, guard one falls off and takes a hoof to the forearm, breaking the bones. He's out of the fighting

Have bolt two embed itself in guard two's thigh or outer hip ... There's a good Wealthy Affiliate niche list on affmountain.com as his horse has gone nuts because horse one kicked it, guard falls off hits head too.

First aid required:

Guard one ... he can sit there and cradle his forearm, hoping he doesn't have to pull a knive and fight one-handed.

Guard two ... Immobilize the arrow shaft by packing some cloth around it at the exit, monitor his pulse and breathing. Check pupils.

Sit there and worry and monitor until a healer can get there. YOu can have the MC seeing swelling of the wound site and restraining his impulse ot do something. It's bleeding inside, if he yanks it, there's a good change of sreious bleeding.

3) Should the healer come with the wagon, or can the wounded be transported by wagon into the estate then be healed? Magical healing in this world accelerates the body's natural healing processes, and can do wonders if the healer can get to the wounded person quickly.

Either way ... although the arrow to the thigh should be healed before transport because of th erisk that jostling would increase bleeding.[/QUOTE]

I admire the level of thought you guys go into to make sure that the story makes sense. I think a lot of writers are so impatient that they don't stop to consider the small things like whether the arrow would actually be able to pierce armor or not. This is giving me inspiration and motivation to think about the finer details and do more research for my writing.

First Aid for an Arrow Wound

TheIT

Infuriatingly Theoretical

zenwriter

tallus83

Horseshoes

lisapreston.com

TheIT

Infuriatingly Theoretical

GeorgeK

ever seeking

Horseshoes

lisapreston.com

AnnieColleen

Invisible Writer

GeorgeK

ever seeking

TheIT

Infuriatingly Theoretical

Tsu Dho Nimh

HeronW

Down Under Fan

HeronW

Down Under Fan

imagine123

Bmwhtly

Yes, I'm back.

Sarpedon

EarlyWriter