Sun Tzu's The Art of War

never finished it.

i thought it was tedious.

but i did read some of this book where the author tried to get relevant sun tzu passages and apply them to the business world. i thought that was pretty insightful.

WannabeWriter said:

Has anyone read this classic ancient Chinese military strategy guide? I read it in one day, given how it's just a long list of tips on how to be successful in warfare. The concepts are pretty neat, and some of them may have non-militaristic applications.

So anyone beside me read The Art of War?

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yes an interesting book. I also like the universal applications of some of the concepts in the book.

I read it, it isn't that good. Most of it is common sense, though as my teacher said, "Common sense isn't common to everybody.".

Great book.

Excellent lessons, and as a companion to the Art of War I recommend the writings of Basil Liddel-Hart, aka "the Captain who taught Generals." His concept of Grand Strategy has yet to be learned well by our leaders.

The Art of War is a require reading in all the World’s Military Academies.
Considering when it was written, it’s a masterfully crafted ‘classic’ of the non-fiction kind.
Take Clausewitz’s work ‘Principles of War’, which, within a few years of its publication, became old-fashioned. In the Prussian style, much to exact in describing tactic & strategic theories, it was obsolete, once smokeless powder, rifled gun barrels, motorized infantry, etc, came into the play.
By comparison, The Art of Wor is timeless, for it gives only general field behavior, and its applications outside the military are wast.

I started it, but never finished it. I was hoping for something that might have as profound effect on me as Tao te Ching did, but no such luck.

I've read it. I don't know why anyone would expect it to be like the tao te ching, any more than they'd expect Machiavelli's the Prince to be like the Bible.

I really enjoyed it. It is full of very interesting points, not only on strategy, but also morality and economy.

I was also amused that one of the commentators was also the primary villain of 'the Romance of the Three Kingdoms.'

The Denma translation and commentary are excellent.

pilot27407 said:

The Art of War is a require reading in all the World’s Military Academies.
Considering when it was written, it’s a masterfully crafted ‘classic’ of the non-fiction kind.
Take Clausewitz’s work ‘Principles of War’, which, within a few years of its publication, became old-fashioned. In the Prussian style, much to exact in describing tactic & strategic theories, it was obsolete, once smokeless powder, rifled gun barrels, motorized infantry, etc, came into the play.
By comparison, The Art of Wor is timeless, for it gives only general field behavior, and its applications outside the military are wast.

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I disagree that Clausewitz's works are obsolete. He is still studied extensively even by modern tacticians. While many of the specific tactic are obsolete, the overall tactical ideas are still quite useful. My degree field is Strategic Intelligence and I have had to read a lot of Clausewitz's stuff. He is still cited constantly in modern military Manuals--tactical, operational, and strategic publications.

The Art of War is great. I've read it numerous times. Also great is The Book of Five Rings by Mushashi. The Great Game, by Peter Hopkirk, The Code of the Samurai, by Thomas Cleary, and Secrets of the Samurai, by Ratti/Westbrook--all ver interesting. If you are interested in this type of thing.

WannabeWriter said:

Has anyone read this classic ancient Chinese military strategy guide? I read it in one day, given how it's just a long list of tips on how to be successful in warfare. The concepts are pretty neat, and some of them may have non-militaristic applications.

So anyone beside me read The Art of War?

Click to expand...

Yes, yes, yes! I've read this book several times. It can be quite dull if you aren't into ancient far east philosophy, but the Art of War is applicable to both military and civilian life. Most passages, you can apply them to your own life or to your own behavior in society.

When I first read it, I only did it to impress my peers, though.

Sarpedon said:

I've read it. I don't know why anyone would expect it to be like the tao te ching.

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Because they've been listening to bad advice.

My father required me to read this when I was in my late teens. It informed my thinking on a lot of things, especially business. It's worth reading.

The Art of War is up there on my list of classics. It's very fascinating, especially in the context of modern society and what modern warfare is. I recommend Romance of the Three Kingdoms along with it. A lot of Sun Tzu's concepts were put into practice by the warlords (Zhuge Liang, most notably) of the Han dynasty. I've read Three Kingdoms three or four times - it's an incredible epic legend.

I've read it twice now, and it remains one of my favorites. There are many versions in print, aimed at businessmen and the like. But my favorite version is the daily journal setup, with both the original caligraphy and a sentence or two to ponder each day. In this manner, you digest all of the concepts as I suspect he originally intended, over the course of a very enjoyable year.

kct webber said:

I disagree that Clausewitz's works are obsolete. He is still studied extensively even by modern tacticians. While many of the specific tactic are obsolete, the overall tactical ideas are still quite useful. My degree field is Strategic Intelligence and I have had to read a lot of Clausewitz's stuff. He is still cited constantly in modern military Manuals--tactical, operational, and strategic publications.

The Art of War is great. I've read it numerous times. Also great is The Book of Five Rings by Mushashi. The Great Game, by Peter Hopkirk, The Code of the Samurai, by Thomas Cleary, and Secrets of the Samurai, by Ratti/Westbrook--all ver interesting. If you are interested in this type of thing.

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Clausewitz is certainly not obsolete, as you point out. He was dealing with a different level of conflict (operational/tactical as opposed to grand strategic), so it's very difficult to fairly compare the two. Sun Tzu is more of a checklist format intended for higher leaders to evaluate military operations, while Clausewitz was actually trying to put together a unified theory of warfare. Very different goals. Both have obsolete sections, obviously, but as a whole both contain very valid observations (some of what could be called a timeless quality).

A good way to look at the two works is that Sun Tzu deals mostly with what happens before the shooting starts. Clausewitz takes over once the shooting starts. That's not a conscious decision on the part of either writer (I don't think), but just the way their experiences and inclinations led them to think about conflict. Clausewitz wrote at a time when profound changes were taking place in the way nations went to war, and he felt compelled to create some kind of unified theory about conflict and how it interacts with other elements of national existence. Sun Tzu may have had some of those inclinations, but his work reads more as a "how-to" guide for an inexperienced political leader.

I've read it.

I, unlike most of you, didn't take from it applications for the civilian world (or, specific to the marketing I see, the business world. That world might be cut-throat, but not in the sense Sun Tzu had in mind, I suspect). It's exactly what it says it is; a treatise for warlords in the "art of war". If people want to turn hints on manoeuvring an army on the march into a metaphor for navigating a hostile boardroom, well... more power to them. Those interpretations certainly sell.