Tate Publishing

[Bill Elson]

$4000.00!!! 'And I thought the vultures over at Tate "Music Group" were having all the fun! I guess those of us who suffer there should consider ourselves lucky.

Some of you Writers are going to have to take out a second mortgage in order to make the Tate team. An Artist's dream is ramsomed for about half the cost. '$1985.50, to be exact. I'll tell you what. You won't hear us complain, anymore.



To learn more about these Artists "who will no longer be complaining", visit http://cdbaby.org/stories/08/05/26/9927886.html and "unite the clans"! Our doors are always open. We'd love to hear from you. If you know of any other places on the web where Writers and Artists can share information about Tate Publishing or Tate Music Group, please, do yourself and everyone else a huge favor and post them today.

Sir William Elson

[astonwest]

Originally Posted by astonwest

Do your books get stocked in the warehouses of the major distributors, or is it merely a print-on-demand operation?

My apologies...apparently I didn't catch this in an earlier response:

Distribution: Tate Publishing sets up each title for nationwide distribution. Authors books are warehoused with wholesalers, distributors and retailers. All Tate product is 100% returnable and all manufacturing, distribution, shipping and return processing costs are paid by the publisher. We provide all of the product to online retailers as well. Finally since we produce ebooks and audiobooks for our authors each of these versions are for sale as well. We are the largest provider of audio books to audible.com and Apple Itunes. Tate authors books are not just available through the stores for order.

[Bill Elson]

"This is one race of people for whom psychoanalysis is of no use whatsoever." Sigmund Freud (about the Irish)

Hi Brian... I was sharing Freud's research on this particular matter with a family member just last night. I'm sure Freud would agree. It was no accident when I came across your last entry.

William

[Momento Mori]

RyanTate:
The 298 authors you are referring to are authors that only signed in 2007, paid an investment and sold enough books to make their investment back. Remember you don't need to sell 5,000 books to make your money back.

Ryan, with respect, this seems to me to be a misleading statement.

Tate only promises to reimburse the "investment" when you sell 5,000 copies of the book. Anything else that an author does to try and claw back that down-payment - the percentage royalties, a hike in the retail price charged by the author - does not guarantee that the author will make their money back and can in fact increase the amount of money that they are spending on being published.

It is the 5,000 sales mark that is critical. Nothing else. You said as much yourself here:

Ryan Tate:
That investment is refundable and returned when the book has sold its 5,000 copy.

Now you appear to be saying that those 298 authors who signed with Tate in 2007 did not in fact sell 5,000 copies, thereby getting a reimbursement of that outlay. But l don't want to put words in your mouth, so here's the very simple question:

Did each of those 298 authors sell 5,000 copies - yes or no?

MM

[brianm]

Originally Posted by RyanTate

I almost forgot, I have been concerned that my schedule is too busy for me to be able to answer your questions as quickly as I would like. Due to this I have asked some of our authors Leon Mentzer and Ricky Robert to try and be in these posts for you.

Do be sure they use their own accounts when posting.

[AC Crispin]

I haven't yet found a Tate book on the shelves in a bookstore, though I've been looking in both Christian bookstores and regular bookstores for the last couple of years. I intend to keep looking.

There's a novel coming out from Tate this fall whose author has been promised full bookstor on-the-shelf placement by Tate. I will be looking for that one, as soon as it is available, in my local Borders and the Barnes and Noble a few towns away.

If I find it, I've promised the author I'll buy a copy. (This author was one of the ones who was not charged an upfront "investment" fee. He's marketing the heck out of his book, and he's good at marketing.)

-Ann C. Crispin

[Stacy Baker]

Good morning, MM. My name is Stacy Baker, and I am an acquisitions rep for Tate Publishing. Ryan asked me to reply since I often answer contract questions for authors, and your question is actually a very good question that I am asked daily.

No, each author did not sell 5000 books. I'm sure you already realize an author is paid royalties on every book that sells. Often an author will receive a full return on his or her money through royalties before achieving the mark of 5000 books sold. However, when we achieve the 5000 books sold with an author, we also issue a refund check for the investment for 3985.50. Hopefully, this clarifies Ryan Tate's response to you. Thank you for asking.

[DaveKuzminski]

Originally Posted by Stacy Baker

No, each author did not sell 5000 books. I'm sure you already realize an author is paid royalties on every book that sells. Often an author will receive a full return on his or her money through royalties before achieving the mark of 5000 books sold. However, when we achieve the 5000 books sold with an author, we also issue a refund check for the investment for 3985.50. ...

Pardon me, but now you're trying to equate apples with oranges. Royalties are not a return on the investment. Royalties come from the profit. The investment has not been returned. Shame on you for stating or insinuating otherwise.

[Deb Kinnard]

With so many ways of stating profitability, "investment" and the like, I wonder if Tate's accountants spend their days setting their hair on fire.

[herdon]

Royalties are a return on the investment. I think you are misunderstanding the phrase. It doesn't mean a return 'of' the investment, it refers to the income/profit/royalties/dividends/interest made from an investment.

[Stacy Baker]

Ann,

Good morning! I introduced myself in a previous e-mail, but I don't believe I've had the opportunity to introduce myself to you personally. I would love to visit with you about Tate Publishing and how our books are distributed and marketed. If you will give me a call, 405-376-4900, I will be glad to make complete travel arrangements at our expense for us to meet in person and discuss any concerns you may have. Thank you, Ann.

[Momento Mori]

Stacy Baker:
No, each author did not sell 5000 books.

Hi, Stacy, and welcome to AW. Many thanks for answering this question.

Stacy Baker:
I'm sure you already realize an author is paid royalties on every book that sells.

Yes, I am aware of that. I am also aware that when you have paid an up-front fee in order to be published, then you should not count on the royalties made from sales as being the way to recoup that fee. As has been said, royalties are additional revenue. When someone is making an upfront capital outlay of almost USD 4,000, they cannot count on the royalties alone to recoup that.

Also (and as I've said in my earlier posts), there is a big concern that if an author is purchasing their own books from Tate in order to sell them, they are making a further financial outlay that may not be made back from royalties (e.g. if they are left with books they cannot sell or if Tate's prices are such that they're having to sell at a loss in order to shift them).

Stacy Baker:
Often an author will receive a full return on his or her money through royalties before achieving the mark of 5000 books sold.

"Often" is not the same as "always" and much of this will depend on the pricing of the book (which I presume is set by Tate in the first instance) and distribution, particularly whether an author is relying on sales made through book stores, or sales made through 'niche' events, where they are essentially selling the product themselves. My understanding from Ryan's comments is that different royalty payments apply depending on how the books are sold, but perhaps you can clarify.

MM

[HapiSofi]

Originally Posted by RyanTate

Dertie,

The best way to get an FAQ is to go to the following page:

http://www.tatepublishing.com/submit.php

Yes. That was interesting. It's written with a great deal more attention and vigor than the sales copy on your published books.

On this page you can simply request information only and receive the FAQ. Also, on the bottom of our publishing services page it tells you to request more information to learn more about author investments and provides a link to the correct page to receive the FAQ. Here is that page:

http://www.tatepublishing.com/services.php

Also interesting. You engage in far too much handwaving about your distribution and marketing practices. Reading between the lines, I judge that most of your distribution handwaving is there to camouflage what I take to be the true state of affairs: almost none of your customers' books get shelved anywhere but the Ingram warehouses.

I have evidence to support that interpretation. I found it on your own site, on the Tate in the News page. Take this press release you issued: "Marriage" Book Picked Up by LifeWay.

LifeWay Christian Stores has agreed to offer and promote Tate author, Craig Gleerup's new release: The Type of Marriage That Endures. The chain will feature the book for the "Back to School Promotion for New Arrivals" in time for the July 30 promotion kickoff. Congrats to Craig and thanks to LifeWay for offering this great book on lasting relationships!

If having one book stocked by one bookstore chain merits its own press release and exclamation-pointed congratulations, then the rest of your books aren't normally being picked up by brick-and-mortar bookstores.

Moving on to Scott Allen Franke Featured on BookWorld Shelves:

Book World – Marshfield, Wisconsin

Book World currently has two displays in their store of Scott Allen Franke's book Walking Your Predestined Pathway. They have copies on hand to pre-sell prior to his book signing event on June 17th.

Again, if getting an author's book onto a single bookstore's shelves merits a press release, it's not a normal event.

Mr. Aartemann's Crayon by Alan Daugherty:

“Mr. Aartemann’s Crayon” is currently on sale at Good Shepherd Christian Book Store in Bluffton, as well as the Korner Kupboard in downtown Huntington.

Same point: if it's only available at a couple of the author's local bookstores, you don't have brick-and-mortar distribution. I'm also betting you made the author do all the work of placing it with those stores.

I Am Shadow: One Dog's Story by Mavis Hinton, reviewed in the Greensboro (NC) News and Record:

Hinton has had book signings at several bookstores. At Barnes & Noble in Winston-Salem, a customer said ... [anecdote skipped]. The book can be purchased online at Amazon.com or BarnesandNoble.com, to name a few sites.

She held a signing at her local Barnes & Noble, but you can't buy her book there? You clearly don't have a distribution deal with Barnes & Noble. You just have the same minimal deal with Ingram as every other vanity publisher.

Grandma Nola by Mitchell M. Olson:

The book is available at any bookstore nationwide or can be ordered through barnesandnoble.com, amazon.com, target.com or directly from the publisher at orders@tatepublishing.com.

You didn't just pick up your business model from other vanity publishers; you picked up your phrasing, too. That's the same misleading description the rest of them use.

Let's move on. We're not done with this page yet. You next discuss the availability of your books:

It is important to remember that Tate Publishing doesn't just provide or ensure availability of our products to book stores. We actually stock product with stores and distributors. Self-publishers will claim they provide availability, but the product is rarely accessible and must be ordered after a purchase has been made. At Tate Publishing we work to guarantee availability, and if a distributor or vendor ever runs out of stock, we resupply them immediately. We do not supply as an on-demand or self-publisher would after a sale or request has been made for a title.

Have I mentioned that your copywriting sucks? Anyway. All you're saying here is that you use conventional short-run printing, and that you warehouse copies of your titles, rather than using Lightning Source as the pure PODs do. You can afford to print copies in advance because you're charging your authors thousands of dollars to publish their work.

We use traditional methods of supplying vendors and accept returns 100% of the time.

It's easy to promise you'll take returns when almost none of your books get onto bookstore shelves.

I'm guessing that you offer your titles to the big secular chains and to the "Christian bookstore" retailers, but that almost none of them get picked up. Now, real publishers are distressed when one or more bookstore chains pass on a title. There's a good chance they'll yank it from their schedule, and rethink and re-package it. That's because they make their money by selling books. No chain distribution, no decent sales; no sales, no sense in publishing the book.

The reason it isn't a disaster for you to have the bookstores pass on your titles is that you're charging your authors for publishing their books: you make money no matter what happens. You can afford to publish anything -- and from the look of your site, you do.

(Note for future reference: boasting that you publish 4% of your general-interest submissions pretty much amounts to an admission that you're running a vanity operation. No way is 4% of anyone's slush pile commercially publishable.)

All this, and yet we're still not finished with this page of your site. We still have to look at the part about marketing.

What will you do to market my book? Tate marketing works hard every day to give our authors the very best penetration into the marketplace through book signing events at major bookstores such as Barnes & Noble, Borders, Hastings, and many other locations. Why try to do it yourself when you can work with a highly trained marketing staff that knows this industry and knows what it takes to sell books?

What they need is marketplace penetration through brick-and-mortar distribution. If they don't have it, signings aren't going to do them any good. In the meantime, thou prevaricating, hypocritical, whited sepulchre of a full-time professional liar, thou, are you never moved to tell your brothers and sisters in Christ how very easy it is to get printed and bound books made up, or to talk local bookstores into taking a few copies and hosting a signing? You're doing next to nothing for them, and you're charging them through the nose for doing it.

Your personal marketing representative will partner with you and with Key Marketing Group to set up book signing events and obtain media coverage and book reviews. Tate Publishing has great relationships with buyers and store managers at Ingram, Borders, Barnes & Noble, Family Christian, Lifeway, Amazon and others who make decisions on what books are carried in their stores and on their websites.

You may have great relationships with store buyers, but you don't have a regular distribution deal that gets your books into their stores on a regular basis.

As for that great media coverage the author's "personal marketing representative" is going to arrange: woot, I surely am impressed. I see from the news clippings page (that thing just goes on being useful) that Tate has gotten its authors placement in the Roseville Press Tribune, Lubbock Avalanche Journal, Baptist Messenger, Valencia County News-Bulletin, Winter Haven News Chief, Scituate Patriot Ledger, Kingwood Community Newspapers Online, Riverside Press-Enterprise, Vernon Times Record News, and the all-important Lake News -- to name but a few.

Almost all of the stories are in the same vein: "Local resident publishes book." Like a local bookstore signing, local human-interest coverage is not hard to get. I'm more surprised by how many of the stories listed on that page are the original press release, with no publication cited. Tate couldn't get those authors a few inches in their local paper's human interest column? They're not half trying. And then there are the "news stories" quoted from sites like Independent Professional Book Reviewers, which is an outfit authors can hire to write "reviews" of their books, or Bookideas.com, an obscure site where amateur book reviewers can post their work for free. It's better to leave off the source entirely, and just look careless, than to cite sources like that, and look clueless.

Granted, there are some bits of real coverage listed on that page, but they're all for books that have inherent interest. If you were Wilt Chamberlain's highschool basketball coach, or if you got Oliver North to write a foreword for your memoir about being prosecuted for committing atrocities in Vietnam, you can get the media's attention. The test is whether your personal marketing representative can draw their attention to less obvious properties.

I am glad you are involved in these posts and actually the page on our publishing services page is a result of feedback from Victoria and some of her friends. It is important to remember that we offer different types of contracts and it is better explained in a thorough FAQ, verses general statements, that is why we provide it.

That's okay. I can nail you on the contents of your site as it stands.

We are set up as a traditional publisher for retail distribution,

You're a 95% vanity operation.

our product is warehoused and sold traditionally and we have agreements with Barnes & Noble, Borders, Hastings, Family Christian Stores, Mardel Christian Stores, Berean, and all of the other major retailers.

They'll take an occasional title from you when they feel like it. The rest of your books sell through Ingram.

All Tate Publishing product is 100% returnable and all expenses are paid by Tate Publishing.

As noted earlier, that's not difficult when most of your books will never be seen in brick-and-mortar bookstores that aren't within easy driving distance of the author's home.

We have great relationships with distributors, wholesalers and retailers that far exceed any POD or vanity press.

That's practically the definition of setting the bar low.

Enough for now. Maybe I'll finish up later.

[Leon Mentzer]

Hello,

I have been reading the posts, and I rec’d a request from Ryan Tate to answer any questions that might arise concerning a Tate author’s view point. That being said, I’d like to state the following;

I’ve answered many questions in this forum in the spirit of education and exchange of view points, but one question that I wouldn’t answer is that of finances. I dare say that none of the top six publishers would even begin to answer questions that Tate has attempted. It’s a no win situation. It’s personal and I wouldn’t even consider it for my own company.

Honestly I’m not a fan of some of these posts. They’re un-professional and do not serve the mission of AW. Some of these posts are just grandstanding. If an author is to benefit from these posts then we need to stay on task and be professional. Making personal snide remarks about “mommy and daddy” does not make one look very credible. Stating your opinion is one thing, grandstanding nitpicking remarks will not help the post.

And snide remarks about the posters being “drive-by” isn’t any better. It makes that poster sound like “my way or the highway”. It doesn’t encourage others to join in.

I’m always interested in how other authors got published and market their book. Some of these posts mention “their” publisher. Who are they? Tell us more. How have they done better? Educate don’t wine. What are the pros and cons?

Yes I’m pleased with my publisher, but other Tate publishing books have done way better then my two books. That’s just the way it is. One thing is for sure I’m always listening and reading for more information. I’d like my book(s) to be #2 on Amazon.

As to the partnership, author investment or what ever the phrase de jour is, HarperCollins is now discussing this model for their author submissions. At what price, who knows? It’s not an author’s market out here. Waiting for the “publisher’s bus” to pick you up is a long wait.

It’s up to the author how they do it. AW provides a wonderful forum for research and education. Keep it clean and professional so that an author can make a sound choice.
My opinion.

[victoriastrauss]

Originally Posted by RyanTate

and actually the page on our publishing services page is a result of feedback from Victoria and some of her friends.

Wow, I didn't notice this.

I would love to think that feedback I'd provided had resulted in changes to Tate's publishing services page. Let's check, traveling back, back, back in time via the magic of the Internet Archive.

Here's the page in Dec. 2003. Not as detailed as the current page, and some of the services are different, but structurally, it's much the same. And look! No mention of an author "investment!"

The page in Dec. 2004. No major change (though the number of free books has been reduced from 50 to 25).

The page in September 2005. No major change.

The page in October 2005. The "author investment" language has been added.

The page in July 2006. Detail has been added, making the page much the same as it is today. The "author investment" language remains the same.

So maybe pressure from WB's warnings did inspire Tate to add a mention of author "investments." IMO, though, that doesn't constitute a significant change to the tone or content of Tate's website, which is clearly crafted to encourage authors to believe it is a "traditional" publisher. In fact, I've frequently criticized that particular page--not just for being the only one on the entire Tate website that mentions the fee, but for consigning the mention to the very bottom of the page and couching it in coded language that an eager author might easily miss.

- Victoria

[astonwest]

Note: I'm not a Tate author, and not "defending" them, but if their authors make royalties, it's still cash in their pockets. If they break even on their investment (through royalties) before they get their initial investment "returned", I wouldn't see the difference between the two. They've still made their money back. Personally, I think that's just splitting hairs...

I did see a Tate book in our local Borders, and the author was allowed to do a booksigning. POD authors aren't allowed those privileges at this particular store.

[Momento Mori]

astonwest:
if their authors make royalties, it's still cash in their pockets.

Usually I'd agree with you, aston, but the reason I'm raising it as a potential issue here is because Tate has a system for authors to buy their own books at a discounted price. I'm not entirely clear on what the royalties from such sales are (I've seen mention of 100% royalties but I don't think that's been clarified), but even if an author does get to keep all the royalties on the book, they're still spending money out up front to buy them in the first place, which means that they're taking the risk of selling the books.

If we're talking about a more 'conventional' scenario, i.e. where books are sold through stores rather than by the author direct, with the author taking a royalty percentage of those store sales, then there's also the issue of how those royalties are calculated, i.e. whether it's on cover price or net. The difference can make a big difference to the amount of money that an author receives and given that we're talking here about the 'investment' authors, who have already forked out almost $4,000, they could be waiting a long time before they make even half of that back (Ryan himself has said that some Tate authors have taken over 2 years just to sell the 5,000 copies to get that downpayment back).

Leon. R. Mentzer:
I have been reading the posts, and I rec’d a request from Ryan Tate to answer any questions that might arise concerning a Tate author’s view point.

Hi, Leon, and welcome back to AW.

Leon. R. Mentzer:
Honestly I’m not a fan of some of these posts. They’re un-professional and do not serve the mission of AW. Some of these posts are just grandstanding. If an author is to benefit from these posts then we need to stay on task and be professional.

I'm sorry if the tone of some of the posters here has upset you. However, while I appreciate that Ryan and Stacey have stopped by on behalf of Tate, some of their attempts to answer questions have been a little contradictory and confusing, which in turn makes it frustrating for those of us who just want to try and understand what's going on. I think though that many of us who have asked Ryan questions have attempted to "stay on task", but it's difficult when some of our questions go unanswered or previous answers are subsequently contradicted.

Leon. R. Mentzer:
Some of these posts mention “their” publisher. Who are they? Tell us more. How have they done better? Educate don’t wine. What are the pros and cons?

Leon, I'm going to let the published writers on this board come back to you on this (of which there have been many who have participated in the discussion). Many of them show their book covers in their avatar or have links to their websites through their personal profile, which can tell you who they're published with.

With regards to the pros of their publishing deals though, as a general guess (and without wishing to speak on their behalf), I'd say that the big pro is that they didn't have to pay anything to their publisher. In fact, I'd guess that many of them were actually paid up front advances for their books.

Leon. R. Mentzer:
HarperCollins is now discussing this model for their author submissions.

If you've got a link for that, I'd be interested in reading it. I know that HC has launched 'Authonomy' as a way of getting people to help sort through their slush pile, but I was unaware they were planning to get authors to pay them any money for publication.

Leon. R. Mentzer:
It’s not an author’s market out here. Waiting for the “publisher’s bus” to pick you up is a long wait.

It's never been an author's market out there. Publishers have always been able to pick and choose what manuscripts they publish and they do so on the basis of books that they think they'll be able to make money from selling to the public.

With regard to waiting for the publisher's bus, trying to get a publishing deal is a proactive process that involves authors researching agents and publishers, working on their manuscript, working on their query letter and then working on the next book while they've got their submissions out. It's very rare for anything to just fall into an author's lap.

MM

[JulieB]

Here's an early story about the HarperCollins imprint. In a nutshell, they'll pay little or no advances, won't accept returns, but offer high royalties. The NYT says that royalties will be about 15% of cover.

I know I've seen something more recent about this new imprint, but the morning coffee has yet to kick in.

Nothing I've read, however, mentions any payment by the author to the publisher.

[Momento Mori]

Cheers, Julie. Interesting article. And worrying. However as you say, although authors won't be paid much (if anything) in advances, they're not being asked to pay any of their own money to Harper either.

MM

[Leon Mentzer]

“And the FACT REMAINS THAT YOU DON’T LIST THE FACT THAT YOU CHARGE AUTHORS TO PUBLISH THROUGH YOU”
The facts are that they don’t charge all authors.


“THERE IS NO INFO ABOUT YOUR FEES”.
Tate has indicated that they don’t have a set policy, until they read your manuscript. Then there is full disclosure, because your manuscript may be offered a different contract. And you DO NOT have to sign the contract if you do not want to.

When you go to the car lot there isn’t anything listed that tells one exactly what the final price is? It depends on what you have and want. But never the less the sign on the car says it yours for??? Then comes the details.

Not having pricing information pasted on the first page isn’t “Omitting “.


“We have great relationships with distributors, wholesalers and retailers that far exceed any POD or vanity press.”

Tate does, why don’t you do some real research. Call the distributors for yourself. Ask them how much a publisher has to pay them to list and distribute their books.


“Nope. I’m not. Nor am I interested in your link to “the greatest place to work in Oklahoma,” And I’ll tell you why. THEY BOTH COME FROM TATE PUBLISHING. Your silver tongue, sir, is long indeed, and it spews propaganda.”

Perhaps you like being un-informed and rely on rumors and gossip. Tate had no control over this award; you live there, call the organization up, and ask them.

Stop being a drama queen. If you’re not interested then you don’t care what the facts are, your mind is made up…….but not because you have done any real research yourself.

“By the way, all of your free advertising about the “services” you OFFER isn’t really working on me, “Doctor.” It’s all double speak. Plain and simple. You OFFER nothing. You SELL it, and the poor, desperate author pays for it.”
Please don’t catalog Tate authors as poor or desperate. Have you published anything? If you haven’t what makes you the expert here.

As to be referred to as a “lackey” you have got to get a grip. Get the facts straight. Just because we are pleased with our relationship with Tate doesn’t mean we’re stupid or a victim. To the contrary, it means there is two sides to everything.

The bottom line is this:
• The price is not right for some. OK.
• They have books in stores.
• They have a distribution system thru their distributors.
• Their books ARE returnable just ask any store, they wouldn’t list them if they weren’t.
• They offer advances
• Pay royalties
• Their marketing dept. sets up all the book signings, authors can also do so but it’s easier if Tate publishing does it.


It is obvious that you have a very angry point and opinion. So be it. But there is a professional way to get your point across. You need to edit angry, wining, complaining, nitpicking, and childish remarks out of your posts.
Educate don’t complaint.

[Leon Mentzer]

Hello Momemto Mori,

AS to Harper I just called them and asked them what they were thinking about author fees. I had talked to one of their Reps at the CBA convention in Fla. They indicated that they're going to change policies????? and charging a fee was in the mix to talk about.

I'm not upset, but we need to stay focus on being professional in our posts so that we don't alienate our peers.

I alway enjoy your posts. thank you

[Stacy Baker]

I'm not normally on this site, so I glanced up through some of the previous entries. I noticed that quite a few questions have already been answered in the past posts. Therefore, I'll try not to waste anyone's time by being redundant in my answers.

I can't imagine any publisher in the industry being the perfect fit for everyone. However, for an author who may not be able to receive an advance on future earnings from a publisher, I believe we are the best option in the industry.

If anyone has further questions, please don't hesitate to call and ask for me, Stacy Baker. My number is 405-376-4900. Tate Publishing is a wonderful place to work, and I welcome your call and look forward to visiting about any concerns or comments you may have.

[BenPanced]

Originally Posted by Leon. R. Mentzer

“And the FACT REMAINS THAT YOU DON’T LIST THE FACT THAT YOU CHARGE AUTHORS TO PUBLISH THROUGH YOU”
The facts are that they don’t charge all authors.

But the fact is they do charge and aren't clear about when/who gets charged.

“THERE IS NO INFO ABOUT YOUR FEES”.
Tate has indicated that they don’t have a set policy, until they read your manuscript. Then there is full disclosure, because your manuscript may be offered a different contract. And you DO NOT have to sign the contract if you do not want to.

If they aren't being upfront about charging a fee, then they aren't being completely honest in their business dealings. Withholding the information doesn't do anybody any favors.

When you go to the car lot there isn’t anything listed that tells one exactly what the final price is? It depends on what you have and want. But never the less the sign on the car says it yours for??? Then comes the details.

Not having pricing information pasted on the first page isn’t “Omitting “.

Funny. The definintion of "omit" I've found shows:

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)o·mit /[oh-mit]–verb (used with object), o·mit·ted, o·mit·ting. 1.to leave out; fail to include or mention: to omit a name from a list. 2.to forbear or fail to do, make, use, send, etc.: to omit a greeting.

Please see definition #1 and tell me Tate is not omitting vital information.

Stop being a drama queen. If you’re not interested then you don’t care what the facts are, your mind is made up…….but not because you have done any real research yourself.

No. No research whatsoever. Nobody's gone to Tate's website or asked any questions. Nope. People have just decided to start flinging baseless accusations based on hearsay or rumor.

“By the way, all of your free advertising about the “services” you OFFER isn’t really working on me, “Doctor.” It’s all double speak. Plain and simple. You OFFER nothing. You SELL it, and the poor, desperate author pays for it.”

Please don’t catalog Tate authors as poor or desperate. Have you published anything? If you haven’t what makes you the expert here.

Many people have been published. Many work in various positions within the publishing industry itself. Others have simply looked around, done research, and asked questions.

As to be referred to as a “lackey” you have got to get a grip. Get the facts straight. Just because we are pleased with our relationship with Tate doesn’t mean we’re stupid or a victim. To the contrary, it means there is two sides to everything.

Settle down. You're losing your audience.

The bottom line is this:
• The price is not right for some. OK.
• They have books in stores.
• They have a distribution system thru their distributors.
• Their books ARE returnable just ask any store, they wouldn’t list them if they weren’t.
• They offer advances
• Pay royalties
• Their marketing dept. sets up all the book signings, authors can also do so but it’s easier if Tate publishing does it.


It is obvious that you have a very angry point and opinion. So be it. But there is a professional way to get your point across. You need to edit angry, wining, complaining, nitpicking, and childish remarks out of your posts.
Educate don’t complaint.

Respect begets respect. I've seen nothing to indicate people haven't been anything but professional. It's obvious there are questions about how Tate operates but because people don't agree with you is no reason to start calling names. Calling people "drama queen" or "childish" certainly isn't helping your argument.

[Leon Mentzer]

My remakes were directed to Dertie Bertie, not anyone else. But if the shoe fits?

[Leon Mentzer]

opps! darn cat stay off the desk! "remarks"