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Interview
with Florrie Kichler Florrie Kichler of Patria Press is, as you'll learn, most certainly not your everyday garden-variety type of independent book publisher. Since she and the award-winning fifty-year-old series of books she publishes have quite a story to tell, I'll just let this extraordinary woman and her books speak for themselves. "These books offer a historical perspective that is what it is—we did refer to African-Americans as 'Negroes' in Mahalia Jackson’s era, and in the post Civil War days of Juliette Low, native Americans were 'redskins'—both terms we abhor today, and rightly so. But when does political correctness end and censorship begin?" Your story is such a fascinating as well as issue laden one, Florrie. Can we start with the genesis of all you’ve achieved and accomplished? I understand that it all began at the age of eight, when you read your way through a serious illness. Would you care to fill in some of the details for us? When I was 8, I became ill with rheumatic fever and had to stay in bed for three months. This was before the days of video games, and computers—even television was in its infancy, so reading was my major source of entertainment. One day, my Aunt Mary came to visit and brought me a little book with a bright orange cover entitled "Amelia Earhart, Kansas Girl." And so began my love affair with the only series of books that told the story of our country’s heroes and heroines when they were children—the Childhood of Famous American Series. So you chose to recover with the Childhood of Famous Americans Series instead of, for example, Nancy Drew mysteries? How many books was the entire series composed of, and how many of them did you manage to read during your illness? Aunt Mary was the catalyst—if she had chosen Nancy Drew instead of the "Childhood" series, I probably would have still become a publisher, but certainly not with the same mission as I have now. The series began in 1932 and the last one published by the original publisher was published in the mid-seventies. In between were 200 titles, and I managed to work my way through at least 20 or 30 of them while I was sick. That the books were published locally (in Indiana), and your first job was working for the series’ publisher, and all that followed thereafter – were they, do you think, just a series of coincidences? Or were they strategically conceived moves from step A to B to C to ultimately attain your goal? Or was synchronicity or some sort of higher calling guiding you to a destiny you were meant to fulfill? I believe that we make our own luck and control our own destiny, but I have to say that there were some fortunate coincidences that played a part in establishing my career path. I knew I wanted to work for a publisher and there was only one major house in Indianapolis, so that was definitely a strategic decision. That the publisher, Bobbs-Merrill, was also the creator of my favorite series of books as a child was simply another positive factor that influenced my desire to work for the company. However, the ultimate sale of the company that resulted in so many of the original Childhood Series going out of print was definitely a wonderful coincidence for me, as it sparked my desire, 25 years later, to bring the books back. And locating the original authors was an ongoing series of happy coincidences! At some point in time, you started "a one-woman campaign to save some 100 of the series [books] from oblivion." You’ve said they were your favorite childhood books; is that what inspired you to want to save that particular series? The beauty of this series is not only are they fun-to-read for kids, but they teach history by telling an entertaining and unforgettable story. The subjects of these books present role models for children in a clear and non-patronizing manner. While the heroes and heroines featured in the series may not always be hugely famous, each one nonetheless still made a very real contribution to our country’s growth. Your campaign included "working up to three years to obtain rights" to the books, correct? How does one go about the process of obtaining such rights? Is much expense involved – especially as we’re discussion a 100-book series? And last but not least, how or where did you manage to locate all of the books? Since all of the approximately 100 books have been out of print for 30 years, obtaining rights was simply a matter of asking either the original author or their heirs to submit a request in writing to the publisher who purchased the original series from Bobbs-Merrill. There is usually a six-month waiting period, at the end of which the publisher returns a document to the requestor indicating that all rights to the book have reverted to him or her. At that point, the author/author’s heirs are then free to sign a publishing contract with me to publish a new edition. The only cost in the process is time. Locating the original authors or their heirs involved everything from combing through 50-year-old records from the Bobbs-Merrill Company, to calling librarians in authors' hometowns to see if they had any information, to being fortunate enough to having one of my father’s friends be the son of an author of 5 books in the original series! Which aspect(s) of your "campaign" did you find most or least challenging? Absolutely the most challenging was locating the authors—in most cases the trail was 50 years old and I had to be creative in my search techniques as I mentioned before. Probably the easiest aspect of the campaign was, once I had found the right person, persuading them to let me reintroduce their book(s). Everyone I spoke to was uniformly thrilled with the prospect of their parents’ book coming back to life. Then, finally, you started your own publishing house, Patria Press, to reissue your favorite titles. And changed the series’ name to The Young Patriots Series? That’s right—Childhood of Famous Americans was trademarked so I couldn’t use it—I had to create a new name that would still reflect the spirit of the original series. I think Young Patriots does that. I named my company Patria Press because Patria is the Latin word for "country" and I though it fit well with my mission. Since we’re both concerned with the following issues, I must ask, Florrie, how you reconcile the personal, philosophical, and business conflicts you corresponded with me about (i.e., your belief in First Amendment rights and freedoms, your anti-racism, anti-discrimination advocacy, being an Indiana Civil Liberties Union board member), versus being a publisher who has to sell books in order to make a living; which, coming full circle, means revising the books’ text to make them politically correct (marketable). Quite frankly, I struggle with that issue on a daily basis. These books were written 50 years ago—language and cultural sensitivity have changed dramatically since then. On the other hand, these books offer a historical perspective that is what it is—we did refer to African-Americans as "Negroes" in Mahalia Jackson’s era, and in the post-Civil War days of Juliette Low, native Americans were "redskins"— both terms we abhor today, and rightly so. But when does political correctness end and censorship begin? My biggest challenge is to reconcile my strong belief in First Amendment rights with the indisputable reality that books will not sell into the educational market with language that portrays ethnic or cultural groups in a stereotypical or pejorative manner. Please correct me if I’m mistaken, and I don’t mean to offend you, but in revising the books’ text you’re actually rewriting or, in terms of altering its printed language, "expurgating"* the text? Was that one of the rights inherent in the "rights to the books" that you secured? Or is it that anyone who wants to revise them is autonomously able to do so since they’re out of print books? And in revising text, is it only words that are made politically correct? Or are historical events also altered, so they’re PC, as they were in Orwell’s 1984? The right to edit the books is included in the publishing contract that I sign with the author and/or their heirs. Although the books were out of print, the copyrights are still in effect, hence each book contract is handled individually with each author/author’s heir. The right to re-issue the book is the right that I had to secure from the previous publisher because that publisher still owns the trademark to Childhood of Famous Americans Series. To respond to your "expurgating" question, my criteria in terms of changing language is that nothing is changed or deleted if it is necessary to character or plot development. For example, in one of the books, there was a section where the main character met a native American family. The portrayal of the native Americans in the text was cartoonish and offensive to that cultural group and offered absolutely no insight into either the personality of the subject of the book or the "redskins," as they were called. As any editor would do to extraneous material that doesn’t move the story along, I cut it. I would like to make it very clear however, that, on average, less that 100-200 words out of every 17,000 word book require editing. AND NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, ARE HISTORICAL EVENTS ALTERED IN ANY WAY. Have any of the books’ original authors or their heirs ever objected to your revisions and attempted to stop you from "infringing" on their First Amendment right of free speech (in terms of the written word)? In that eventuality though, unless I’m wrong, you’d have the book rights, as well as freedom of the press, so who would legally have a valid case against whom? As I mentioned previously, so few changes need to be made in the books, on average, that no one has ever objected. We spoke earlier about your being a Civil Liberties Union board member. How, in your capacity as a publisher and business woman, do you avoid clashes with them over First Amendment rights and freedoms? I don’t see my position as a publisher and my membership in the ICLU as contradictory at all—on the contrary, I consider the two things to be complementary. I will continue to do everything I can to support the Bill of Rights—which includes being a delegate to the national ACLU Conference the week of June 9. Is the Board of Ed. or the general reading public the primary market you sell to? I ask because I wonder what would happen if the text were left as it previously was. Chronic controversy and censorship has, for instance, always plagued Shakespeare’s plays. And Mark Twain’s Huckleberry Finn for words like "nigger" and the novel’s alleged racist treatment of blacks. Ultimately, however, the original text usually prevails, is the reader’s preferred version, and the one most frequently used in schools and colleges. Would the market(s) you sell revised editions to actually not buy the books as they originally were? My two final questions regarding the revisions are: On or according to whose or which standards, criteria, agenda, judgment or dictates, are you basing your revisions? The market I sell to are educators, but keep in mind that the readers are 7 through 11 years old, not high school or college students. It has been on the advice of respected educators that I have made the revisions that I have—again, less than 1% on average of each book. I simply did not want to take the chance that the books would be rejected—they are wonderful stories that educate, entertain and get kids reading. But, given that the pendulum swings from one end of the continuum to its opposite end every decade or so in relation to what is and isn’t considered politically, socially, ethnically, and in every other respect "acceptable," won’t the revisions you’re making now be outdated and need to be revised again approximately ten years from now, and again every ten years for the foreseeable future? I have no way of predicting the future, but my goal was to embrace the multicultural aspect of the stories by removing derogatory references to ethnic groups. Hopefully, there will be no need to revise them in the future since they are no longer offensive. Has the un-politically correct language of the books gotten more problematic or urgent since 9/11 and/or the passage of the US Patriot Act? And it’s interesting, in light of last year’s enactment of the Patriot Act, that you renamed the books The Young Patriots Series, although you renamed your series many years earlier. Currently, though, does "Patriot" being part of the books’ title help or hinder business? As you mentioned, I named my Series in 1999, long before the US Patriot Act. My mission was to create a series title that described the boys and girls featured in the books, all of whom loved our country and grew up to make a significant contribution to its growth and development. I can’t say for certain whether "Patriot" helps or hinders book sales. I have to apologize for harping on these matters, Florrie, and appreciate your patience. Let’s talk about the kids your books are for. How do they react or respond to your series? Do the stories inspire them as they, in another sense, inspired you? And what about parents-- what do your hear from them? I do many school visits as well as speaking engagements at book festivals and conferences. I am uniformly delighted at the response I get—parents remember the books when they were young, and the kids love the stories about kids just like they are, who play with their friends, disobey their parents and get in trouble, but still display the determination and drive to contribute to society. Do you only make local visits, or do you visit schools and classrooms across the nation? And how could kids or parents get you to come to theirs? Yes I absolutely do school and library visits and have done quite a few. I
have two presentations--one entitled "How a Book is Born" talks about
the stages from manuscript to published book using the Young Patriots Series
as examples. The other program is called "Who's Your Hero?" and, again
using the Young Patriots Series books as examples, we discuss the
qualities of a hero, the "recipe" for a hero, who the kids hold as
their own heroes and why. Quoting directly from your site again, you also "share [your] dramatic ‘search and rescue’ story, and show examples of the series over the years," in a talk you give titled "Evolution of a Children’s Book Series." Please elaborate on this a bit, and tell us where you give these lectures. When I talk about the series, I generally give examples, usually through illustrations, of both the old and new editions, showing how the books have changed through the years. I also tell the story of how I developed the new "look" for the books, including some details about the search for the original authors. I have spoken at several book festivals, including the Southern Kentucky Festival of Books in Bowling Green, Kentucky and the Southern Festival of Books in Nashville, TN. I also speak at conferences for school librarians, children’s public librarians, and social studies teachers. Your "authors" – "more than fifty of them" are mentioned on your site; who are re-writing the books you’re reissuing. It must be such a time-consuming, tedious job to edit each and every book word-by-word and line-by-line. Do you do it all yourself, or do your authors, based on your guidelines? I employ an editor who has extensive experience in children’s books—that was a must since most of the authors are deceased. He shares my vision and determination to make the books the best they can be, and I am so fortunate to have him on my team. When he is through, I take a look at it, and I will usually have a teacher and/or librarian read it as well. In case anyone reading our interview wants to offer his or her services, since you already have so many, do you ever hire new authors? Not at this time—my plate is full! It’s only this one series – a multiple award-winning series, I may add, of "children’s biographies featuring the adventures of heroes and heroines in American history," that you’re now publishing. Correct? Do you eventually plan to publish other books or series? Right now I have approximately 30 books under contract that I will publish as part of the Young Patriots Series. That will keep us busy for a few years and as of now, I have no plans to do any other series. And what about the original books? Are any or many of them still available? And, if anyone wants them, how would you advise one to search for them? The original books are still out there but difficult to find—I’ve found a few simply by checking on eBay and the major used book sites. Just typing "Childhood of Famous Americans" into a search engine should get anyone started. I’m not sure that we ever actually mentioned that your publishing house is in Indiana, and the very first four books you reissued were about the childhood of historic people from Indiana. We did discuss you’re being an Indiana Civil Liberties Union board member. Taken all that we’ve spoken about into account, has your combination of circumstances and situations ever been difficult to sustain? Or were they ever viewed as conflicting interests by certain individuals or groups in Indiana? OR, is Indiana proud of you, and your publishing house a local tourist attraction Indianapolis boasts of? I began my series with books about famous people from Indiana because I am proud of my state and want our children to be proud as well. The media puts such an emphasis on sports figures and musicians that all kids know that Michael Jackson, John Mellencamp and Larry Byrd are from Indiana. However, I felt it was just as important for kids to know that Lew Wallace, author of the best-selling novel of the 19th century, Ben Hur, was from our state, as well as the famous World War II journalist, Ernie Pyle, and a host of others. Everyone that I have come into contact with has been most complimentary about my project—I don’t kid myself that I’m a tourist attraction, but I do hope that at least I’m doing a small part in supporting our state. You’ve always lived in Indiana. An article on your site refers to you as a "native Hoosier." To enlighten anyone, including myself, who isn’t familiar with the term, is that what a Hoosier is – a native of Indiana? A "Hoosier" is indeed someone who lives in Indiana. Nobody can really tell you what it means, but the best guess is that it derived from pioneer days, when someone knocked on the door, and the person inside replied, "Who’s ‘ere (there)?" Somehow that phrase morphed into "Hoosier"… Interesting. And one last question or two: I assume you learned much of what publishing is and isn’t about from the years you spent working at Bobbs-Merrill. How, in your opinion, should those who would like to launch their own indy press, but have no experience, background, or knowledge whatsoever of the publishing business, get started? How many hundreds of centuries would it take them to learn ALL they must know before even contemplating a venture such as this? I learned a great deal in the 12 years I spent working for Bobbs-Merrill, and that experience was, of course, invaluable in starting my own company. Of course you will be ahead of the game if you have previous publishing experience prior to going out on your own. However, whether or not you have experience or not, here are my Top 5 tips on Starting a Publishing Company: 5. Read every book you can from those who have gone before you and already made those expensive mistakes. Specifically, John Kremer's 1001 Ways to Market Your Books, Dan Poynter's The Self-Publishing Manual, Dan Snow's U-Publish, and Tom Woll's Publishing for Profit. Those are just a few titles to get you started. 4. Join publishing-related list-serves on the Web and read every post. There is a wealth of information available from other publishers who have "been there, done that." 3. Hire a professional designer to design your book cover. I cannot stress this enough. In order to get your books accepted and respected by bookstores, libraries and reviewers, you MUST have a cover that can compete with the thousands of other books in the marketplace. 2. That said, don't depend completely on bookstores as an outlet for your book. Brainstorm creatively to determine where people who are interested in the subject of your book shop, and then try to place your book in that venue. For example, a gourmet cookbook might belong in a gourmet cookware shop, a gourmet foods store, or even a restaurant. 1. Have access to at least three times as much capital as you think you will need. Then double that amount. Any last words, Florrie? Thank you so much for giving me the opportunity to talk about my two favorite
topics – the Young Patriots Series and civil liberties. You are providing a
wonderful service with your newsletter and I applaud you for reminding us all of
what Ben Franklin so aptly pointed out, "They that can give up essential
liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor
safety." * Expurgate: Contemporary term for bowdlerizing. Its meaning remains the same. Bowdlerize: Deleting, removing, covering, or otherwise "cleaning-up" words or portions of a book became known as bowdlerizing, in the 18th century, when Thomas Bowdler removed sexual references and other passages from Shakespeare’s plays. Then called his version "family" Shakespeare. ~ ~ ~ Note: Florrie can be reached at: Patria Press, Inc.-- Hook Kids
on History with the Young Patriots Series of fictional biographies. Visit MyFavoriteBookShop (http://www.MyFavoriteBookShop.com),
RoseEtta Stone's new bookshop, featuring children’s books; books of
yesteryear, today, and tomorrow; books for reluctant readers; and banned,
censored, challenged, and burned books.
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