Interview With
Jonathan Dorf, Playwright and Screenwriter
Interviewed by Mehroo Siddiqui
Jonathan Dorf’s plays
have been produced in more than half of the states in the US, as well as
abroad. His work is published by Brooklyn Publishers, Eldridge,
Meriwether, and soon Smith & Kraus. He is co-chair of the Alliance of
Los Angeles Playwrights, the resident playwriting expert for Final Draft
and The Writers Store, and a member of the Dramatists Guild of
America. He formerly directed the theatre program at The Haverford
School, and spent three years at Choate Rosemary Hall Summer Arts
Conservatory as playwright-in-residence. He holds a BA in Dramatic
Writing and Literature from Harvard University and an MFA in Playwriting
from UCLA. He is available to playwrights and screenwriters as a script
consultant (and works with writers of books and articles as well) and
can be found on the web at
www.jondorf.com
or emailed directly at
jon@jondorf.com.
How did you start writing?
When did you know that you wanted to specialize in drama and not, for
example, poetry? Why writing, and why drama?
I have always been an avid reader-- actually, more so when I was
younger-- perhaps influenced by the fact that my father was librarian.
In fact, taking a trip across the United States with my parents when I
was ten years old, we had to stop to buy more books: I had gone through
everything we had bought. At that time I was reading the Great Brain
series, and soon went through the Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy
series and Tolkien’s The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings.
The first creative writing I can remember doing was
a heavily sci-fi influenced (“Battlestar Galactica” was a big favorite
of mine) short story in maybe the third or the fourth grade. It won
recognition in a young writers contest, and from there I wrote a few
more short stories. At some point, probably early in high school, I
started writing simply for the sake of writing-- not just for
school-sponsored contests or assignments.
During my sophomore year in high school, I met a
teacher named Thom Williams, who was the advisor to the student
newspaper (Mar News), the literary magazine, and the yearbook.
When at the end of the year I took over as editor of the newspaper, I
started almost living in the Mar News Room, where lots of kids
gathered to play chess, talk about writing, and simply hang out. Kind of
Marple Newtown Senior High School’s Greenwich Village, I suppose. Thom
was and still is an award-winning poet (haiku especially), and he got me
writing poetry. My interest in short stories gradually faded, and for a
while, I focused on writing relatively short, free verse poems. I also,
of course, wrote articles for the school paper, and even covered sports
(my first paid writing gigs!) for a local weekly, The County Press.
During my junior year, Thom, who is still a good
friend to this day, suggested that since I had written short stories and
poetry and song lyrics and essays and newspaper articles, why not try
writing a play? So I did. More on that later.
When I got to college, I still thought I was going
to be a lawyer. But sitting in the audience at Harvard Law School’s
famed moot court (my cousin Michael, now a well-known professor of law
at Columbia, was a participant), while I thought law was fascinating, I
realized that I didn’t want to practice it. In the meantime, I had
student productions of fourteen different plays of mine as an undergrad.
A few I directed, most I didn’t-- but playwriting became my artistic
medium of choice. I think what has hooked me since high school is the
immediacy of it, and the live audience. There’s nothing like sitting in
the back of the house while actors speak the words and play the actions
you wrote, and the people in the audience react to them. Everyone who
works on a play is there because you wrote it-- that’s quite a feeling,
and it’s unlike the feeling you get from any other art form. So here I
am, still writing plays.
What inspires you to
write? How often are you visited by the muse? What about writer’s block?
How do you deal with that?
I’m not sure if I’d reduce writing to
“inspiration,” because it makes it sound as if writers get struck by a
bolt from above. Personally, I tend to write when I come upon an
interesting character (in my head or otherwise) or situation. For
example, in the last few years I’ve been increasingly fascinated by
American pop iconography. I’d been carrying around the idea of a
Winnebago-- I wanted a play with a Winnebago in it. I also wanted to
write a play about squeegee people, those often-homeless folks who will
clean your car windows. And then the 2000 election happened, with its
uniquely inconclusive result. All of these elements mixed together, the
presidents eventually became mayors of New York City, and Shining Sea
was born.
To me, it’s not so much an issue of being visited
by a “muse” or being inspired (this is not to say that one isn’t struck
by good/great ideas from time to time), but rather one of time and
mindspace. When I was an undergrad, my meals were downstairs in the
dining hall, my bills were paid, I didn’t have a TV, and the Internet
wasn’t the distraction (for better or worse) that it now is. All I had
to do was get up and write. I had days when I would crank out twenty or
twenty-five pages. Entire one-acts. I once wrote a feature film script
in seven days.
The problem now is that sitting down and writing
isn’t my only responsibility. Nobody makes my meals anymore, nor takes
care of paying my electric or credit card bills on time. Now I do own a
television, and I like to go to the gym. And having a writing career
isn’t just about the writing. One needs to market it, which often means
maintaining a website, and doing mailings or e-mailings of scripts. And
then there are the occasional guest artist visits, or because I do a lot
of consulting on other people’s scripts and for companies like Final
Draft and the Writers Store, I get a lot of emails requesting one kind
of writing help or another. It takes a lot of time out of my schedule,
and it makes it harder to write.
I don’t believe in writer’s block. But I do believe
that before I can write productively, my mindspace needs to be clear.
What some call “writer’s block” is simply an indication that you haven’t
had enough time to clear out your head from your other responsibilities,
all the things that have nothing to do with writing. Take some time to
do them, or just decide that you’re not going to deal with them at all
for a day or two. Go out and waste some time if you need to-- I find
it’s a good way to clear your head. Personally, when I need to get
something done, I usually leave my apartment and go to a café, or if I
really need a concerted period of writing, I go out of town.
You produce plays as well.
How do you like that? Do you prefer producing all of your own plays?
Why? What about direction? Have you ever wanted to do that, why or why
not? Do you take a hand in directing your plays or are you content to
let another person do that?
Producing plays is an entirely different animal
from writing them. It’s mostly about raising money, and getting
personnel, a space, marketing. In other words, it’s mostly business. I’m
organized, and so for better or for worse, I’m good at producing, but
it’s not something I do much of anymore, nor is it something I have a
burning desire to do. I’d rather just write. And when I was producing,
it was rarely my own work anyway.
Of course, producing your own work gives you more
control, but it’s a huge investment of time, effort and most likely,
money. My theory in general is that if my play is good enough, there has
to be someone out there who will pay me to produce it. This is not to
say I wouldn’t ever produce any of my plays again, but it would have to
be something that I really wanted to be involved in. The one play of the
current crop that comes to mind is Yard Wars, my one-man backyard
wrestling play. It would make a great late-night or festival show, and
it would be a ton of fun to work on. So I’ve been keeping my eyes open,
and we’ll see what happens.
As for directing, I think it’s usually a terrible
idea for playwrights to direct their own work, or at least a first
production. Why? Because as the playwright, the entire play is clear to
you (let’s hope). But while it’s obvious to you because you wrote it, it
may not be obvious to everyone else. A director who is not the
playwright will go out of his way to make these tricky moments clear to
all, but the “playwright as director” won’t realize they’re tricky in
the first place. Also, I always like to have a collaborator who can
bring some fresh eyes and insight to a play that I’ve lived with for
some time.
What would you consider
the best and worst part about writing? Why?
For me, the biggest joy during the actual writing
process is typing the words “end of play” after I finish a first draft.
I know that’s just the beginning of the work, and that I’ve got many
months (or even years) and drafts to go, but there’s a certain sense of
accomplishment at having “given birth” to a new play.
Probably the toughest thing about writing is after
I finish that first draft and I’ve gotten some feedback or had a reading
or two of the play, when I realize that I have to rewrite an enormous
chunk of it. Yes, I know I’m improving the play in the long run, but it
feels like running a marathon, and just when you think you’ve reached
the finish line, you realize it’s only the starting line for another
marathon.
Is there an ideal project,
a dream play… something you wish to pen but have not been able to do so
yet? Can you tell us a little about it if so?
I don’t believe that there’s such a thing as one
ideal project or “dream play,” because then what would I do once I’d
written it? At any given moment, I’m usually working on several
projects, and I have at least three or four ideas “on deck.” The hope is
that while I’m writing Play A, I can be thinking about Play B, thinking
about its characters and what they want, the world in which they live--
so that by the time I’m finished writing Play A, I’m ready to tackle a
draft of Play B.
So yes, I do have a number of plays that are on my
writing wish list, but I don’t talk about things I haven’t written yet.
A lot of it has to do with the fact that I’m still working out their
shapes in my head, and also that there’s a certain psychic energy needed
to write plays, and I don’t want to discharge it prematurely or talk
these “plays to be” to death before they’re born.
There are links on your
homepage for young playwrights, suggesting a reading list for them, and
helping them out in general with their writing. How far would you say
you have been successful in providing this kind of help to people who
wish to write drama? How exactly do you go about helping them?
I’ve always been interested in helping young
writers. I like teaching, and while I’m not in a classroom full-time at
the moment, the Young Playwrights Page is my way of helping the next
generation of playwrights. It’s considered by many to be the most
comprehensive resource site for young playwrights on the web, and not
only do I get periodic emails from teachers asking to use excerpts from
the site in their classes, but what’s even more flattering is when I’ll
randomly come upon a link to my site that a teacher has put on his or
her page, instructing students to go there for playwriting help. I
remember discovering a link to my site from a small public school in a
remote part of Queensland, Australia, instructing the sixth grade
students to visit for help with their playwriting assignment. I’ve found
similar links on American school sites, even on a British school blog.
(The beauty of my web hosting statistics is that they tell me what links
my visitors followed to get to me.)
I’ve also been a guest artist at a number of
schools, and I would love to do that more. It’s exciting to come to a
new place (I like traveling anyway), and in a few days, change the way
the students look at writing.
Playwriting can be a really transformative art
form. I spent a year working with an elementary school class in
northeast Philadelphia as part of the Philadelphia Young Playwrights
program. At the end of the year, we had professional actors come in and
do script-in-hand readings of the best of the plays-- it was this
incredible high for the students (and their families). Only nine or ten
years old, and already exposed to that hard to describe but
oh-so-amazing feeling of watching people performing your work, and
watching others react to it. That’s something those kids will keep with
them, and who knows what impact this playwriting experience will have.
The Young Playwrights Page is a complete resource,
in that it guides you all the way from idea (it even talks about where
ideas come from) to what to do with your “finished” play. In other
words, even if you have no other playwriting instruction, you should be
able to use the site as a guide to write your first play.
My philosophy of teaching writing has been
influenced by some of my own mentors over the years. The late William
Alfred used to talk about each play finding its own “incontrovertible
form,” and in my grad school years, Leon Katz showed us how to meet
plays on their own terms, rather than insist (as many teachers and texts
seem to do) that all plays be created through some particular method, or
have the same structure or purpose.
In addition to the Young Playwrights Page, I also
run a Yahoo groups email list for young playwrights (and their teachers)
through which I’ll answer general questions about writing. And then
there are a number of other resources I created, not specifically for
young writers but certainly of use to them. I wrote the content for a
site called
www.playwriting101.com, and I have a bunch of columns on the Final
Draft website, www.finaldraft.com.
Also, if you happen to own Final Draft 7 (and subsequent versions, I
would expect, will contain it also), you’ll find “Ask the Expert”
playwriting (the legendary Syd Field handles screenwriting), with basic
instruction, troubleshooting and advanced dramaturgical tips, by yours
truly.
Of course, my favorite thing to do is to work with
writers of all ages one-on-one. When I taught at The Haverford School, I
created a specialized dramatic writing course, and my students won
contests at the local level, nationally, and even abroad, but more
important, they developed an understanding of how playwriting works on a
practical level, and some of them are still writing away today.
Do you think young writers
now have better opportunities than they did when you had entered this
field? How is it different? Tell us a little about your first play; what
it was about and how it got produced. Also, in all the work you have
done to date, what is it that you are most proud of, why?
The biggest difference between resources and
opportunities for young writers when I started and resources and
opportunities now is the Internet. Between e-mail and the World Wide
Web, it’s suddenly become easy to publicize a contest that previously
only the locals would have known about. My Young Playwrights Page
contains links to dozens of submission opportunities for young writers
worldwide-- only a few years ago, to come up with such a list would have
been impossible. So it’s hard to say whether the number of contests has
proliferated in recent years, or whether we simply didn’t know about
most of the ones beyond our doorstep. Of course, it’s also possible that
some contests have sprung up because the Internet has made publicizing
them so much easier.
My first play was in response to Thom Williams
suggesting that since I’d written everything else, I should try writing
a play. And so I did-- my junior year in high school. The play was
called The Storm, and it was a pretty blatant rip-off of Eugene
O’Neill’s The Iceman Cometh, which made perfect sense considering
that I had written my junior English paper on O’Neill and had been
reading a number of his plays. The Storm was about some people
stuck in a New England bar during a blizzard. I don’t remember much else
about it (I think it was something of a tragedy), but there was a
one-act festival at my high school at the end of every year, and the
seniors who were most active in the drama program directed the plays.
Somehow, one of them decided to direct my play as part of the festival--
I think he was a Mar News guy. Maybe Thom Williams brought the
play to his attention. Supposedly it was the first student-written
one-act ever to be produced at the festival, but in any case, the
reception was very positive.
Of course, The Storm (and everything else I
wrote during my high school years) is somewhere hidden away on a disk
and has about as much chance of being seen (much less produced by
anyone) as Jimmy Hoffa.
But a play that came along just a few years after
is still probably closest to my heart, perhaps just because I’ve lived
with it so long: Ben. I wrote Ben somewhere around my
sophomore year at Harvard, beginning it in Adrienne Kennedy’s class and
then finishing it later that school year. Over the years, I’ve watched
the play evolve in so many ways, with the cast size shrinking from about
ten to seven, scenes disappearing and new ones appearing, and what Bill
Alfred would call its “incontrovertible form” emerging. Ben, a homeless
teen living in Harvard Square, is looking for the woman he thinks is his
mother, but instead he finds a surrogate father in a gay restaurant
owner. At some point Baxter, the restaurant owner, became a gay
character (for nearly ten years he wasn’t), and when he did, everything
slipped into place. Ben and Baxter’s relationship is central, and the
restaurant owner’s being gay created an instant source of tension: Ben,
because of his life experiences, assumes Baxter must be after something.
At the same time, Ben becomes Baxter’s substitute for the son from which
he’s estranged. The advantage of Baxter having been straight in the
original conception of the character is that he’s written as a
blue-collar guy, which is what he still is, rather than as the
stereotypical gay character.
Ben had a workshop production at Harvard
directed by Scott Schwartz (who has gone on to direct the New York
productions of Bat Boy, Golda’s Balcony and tick
tick…BOOM), and then several readings of various stripes. It was
supposed to have a workshop production in New York in fall 2003, but
that and a concert reading at one of the National New Play Network
theatres fell apart due to financial reasons. It’s currently waiting for
a promised staged reading at one of the good small theatre companies in
LA, and I’m confident that sooner or later, it’ll find a production.
Tell us about writers you
admire. Why do you admire them and do you try to emulate their style?
My favorite writers are probably Edward Albee and
Harold Pinter. Albee’s The Zoo Story, to my thinking, is the
perfect one-act. The way the play’s structure precisely mirrors Jerry’s
long detour (“sometimes a person has to go a very long distance out of
his way to come back a short distance correctly”) is nothing short of
brilliant. His most famous play, Who’s Afraid of Virginia Woolf,
is likewise masterful, its dialogue like music. I remember Leon Katz
working through the play’s various movements in a grad school class,
treating it like a symphony. Both Albee and Pinter (his The
Homecoming is scorching) are darkly funny, which I always enjoy, and
they imbue their work with great menace. Not just the words, but also
the spaces between them, have meaning and impact (of course, the Pinter
pause is legendary). And each dramatist, in his own way, isn’t afraid to
push his characters into ridiculous, almost expressionistic situations.
I also admire Mamet’s skill with dialogue. He
always gets credit for writing the most realistic dialogue, but the fact
is he doesn’t. Rather, he writes such realistic rhythms that he’s able
to hide that his characters are not speaking as we would in real life.
It’s an intensely edited version of real-life dialogue, with a cadence
so tightly written that it passes for absolutely real.
I also admire Shepard’s heightened dialogue and
situations, the imagination of Kushner, the cleverness of Stoppard, the
expansive spareness of Beckett, the human poetry of the best of
Tennessee Williams and O’Neill. Steven Dietz’s Lonely Planet is a
beautiful play, and of course, so are plays like Marlowe’s Edward the
Second and almost anything Shakespeare (my particular favorite is
probably Richard III).
I don’t try to emulate the style of any one writer
in particular. But, of course, we’re all a product of our influences:
every play I’ve ever read or seen, films and TV, art, the newspaper,
events I’ve witnessed-- the list goes on and on. All of these may
potentially find their way into my writing, and the hope is that I’ll
synthesize the best that each has to offer.
Shakespeare’s plays were
universal because he wrote about human traits and failings that are the
same world over, Brecht’s plays dealt more with social and political
issues, and Beckett wrote about the absurdity of human existence. Other
playwrights have also been famous because of the mood or theme their
plays were built around. Would you call yourself a realist, surrealist,
expressionist, absurdist or something else? Do you think drama is a
reflection of our times/values/environment? How? Have your plays ever
questioned the world we live in, why it is the way it is, or anything of
the sort? Why or why not?
Stylistically, I don’t like to box myself in. I’ve
written some plays that are simply two people in a room (e.g. Newt
Gingrich Visits a Residential Youth Facility Not Near Omaha or
You’re Next), and others where the characters seem real, but the
world around them is heightened (Shining Sea), and still others
where characters self-consciously become other characters and real time
gets bent in expressionistic ways (Neverland or Bookends).
Some of my plays are written specifically for young actors and audiences
(Dear Chuck or After Math), while others have more mature
situations. In other words, I don’t exist in one constant place
stylistically (of course, I have inclinations and preferences), in my
concerns (I prefer that word to “themes”) or in my intended audience.
Perhaps some of that is to keep things fresh for myself, and also
because as we grow as people, our interests change. I’m not the
playwright I was ten years ago, nor will I be the same playwright in
another ten.
In graduate school I took a course called the
Background of Theatrical Art, and it was a study of plays as the forces
that shape them. Drama is definitely a product of its time period,
though there are many ingredients to factor in: cultural factors,
politics, religion, economics, etc. Often playwrights are ahead of the
curve, writing pieces that are shocking to audiences of their time,
giving society and the human existence a long hard look in a way that
many may not be ready to do. Plays like Who’s Afraid of Virginia
Woolf or Ibsen’s A Doll’s House or Kushner’s Angels in
America caused their share of shock waves when they appeared,
shedding light on some of mankind’s darker corners, but all have come to
be accepted as classics.
Most playwrights, unless they write purely to
entertain, question the world in which we live to some extent.
Personally, I don’t sit there and decide I’m going to write a play about
abortion or freedom of speech or health care or religion or any number
of other “issues” in order to put forth my point of view or “the
answer.” Instead, through my characters and their situations, I try to
write plays that bring up questions.
For instance, Shining Sea is set in a New
York City that’s being torn apart by a failed mayoral election. A trio
of squeegee people, a “family” of sorts, come upon an abandoned
Winnebago, and it’s their chance to escape, to drive their way to the
American Dream. Do certain elements of the play resonate with the 2000
American presidential election? Sure. But the play is about the squeegee
people: the rioting, dueling mayors, and run-amok parking authority are
merely the backdrop to their lives. In After Math, a student,
Emmett, disappears in the middle of a math test. Through scenes and
monologues, those left behind try to figure out where he’s gone, and as
the play unfolds, we realize that no one really knew him, and that only
in his absence has he become a presence in their lives. The hope is that
maybe through viewing Emmett’s situation, the audience will take away
some new insight into their own lives or the world around them.
You are also a
screenwriter. How do you find that sort of writing? What is more
fulfilling, writing a play or a screenplay? How is it different? Why do
you like more what it is that you like more?
Screenwriting and playwriting are probably best
described as cousins. Both media require good storytelling, but
screenwriting is more visually intensive. People sometimes forget,
however, that playwriting is much more than dialogue, and in fact has a
significant visual component of its own.
I enjoy writing screenplays, but I don’t always
feel as free writing them. On the stage, I can have characters turn into
other characters before our eyes, craft the most expressionistic moments
imaginable, and tell a story using any number of structures.
Screenwriting, on the other hand-- and much of this seems to be because
of the Hollywood mentality-- pretty much boils down to Aristotelian
three-act structure. Everyone wants to know what your acts are, or your
plot points (some books will even tell you they need to be on specific
pages), or you’ll hear someone talk about rising or falling action: your
script can feel more like a connect-the-dots than a writing project if
you’re not careful. One problem is that many of the people who work in
the business don’t have a real background in dramatic structure or
writing, so there’s a lot of clinging to oversimplified writing models.
Part of the cookie-cutter attitude we see in film
is probably because it costs so much to produce one (unless you shoot it
yourself) that it’s rare for people to take a chance on something. On
the other hand, a little experimental theatre can put up your play for
next to nothing, and there will be much more opportunity to attack
things creatively on stage in terms of direction and design.
This is not to say that I don’t like writing
screenplays. It’s fun to tell stories with images, and that kind of
intensely visual work presents its own challenges. I actually like to
switch back and forth between stage and screen, as each type of writing
informs the other and keeps me fresh. If I could only write one, I’d
probably pick stage plays, simply because there is no better high than
sitting in the back of a dark theatre watching the audience watch live
actors perform your work. The other big difference is that in the
theatre, playwrights own the work, and consequently are treated much
better. In film, you’re paid more, but you’re pretty much a hired gun:
they own your work (unless you’re also producing).
What are your plans for
the future? Where do you want to go from here, why, and how will you get
there?
My goals for the future are simple: more, bigger,
better. I’ve got several pieces on the docket for this year, including a
pair of screenplays and a rock musical. I’ve written one musical to
date, a piece called Day One that’s written specifically for teen
performers, and I very much enjoyed the process. There’s something
exciting about music on stage, an infectious energy, and I want to
experience that more.
I also want to continue my writing for young
people. On the one hand, I want to do some hip, contemporary one-act
versions of the classics, because it’s a great way to get them
interested in the works of the Greeks, Shakespeare, and others in a
“non-threatening” way. But I also enjoy writing plays that look at the
way young people live their lives today, or deal with issues they face
in ways that don’t preach, and use humor and theatricality to engage
them.
As far as my work for young actors and audiences
goes, I’m in a good place, because I’ve found several publishers who
seem to share my taste, and the hope is to continue to put more and more
plays on the market. Of course, I also want non-youth productions in the
larger mainstream theatres, whether in New York or regionally. And I
need to find representation again. I had a manager for a while, but I
felt as if I were working for her more than the other way around.
Several of the screenplay projects I’m working on may speed that
process, but I’m always on the lookout for the right person to advance
my career. Representation is less crucial for playwrights, but it’s
certainly quite necessary in the screenwriting world.
Any advice for budding
playwrights or screenwriters? How should they go about their writing,
how can they make it public, and how can they make it sell?
It’s hard not to give advice that doesn’t sound
cliché. “Believe in your work.” “Be persistent.” That’s nice, but it’s
not very practical. But here are five tips that are:
1. Don’t send out work too early. If you’ve
written a play, make sure it’s had at least a reading or two and you’ve
had some time to sit with it before you send it out. Ditto with a
screenplay. Too many people send out their scripts too early, and once
you send someone a script that’s not ready, they’re that much less
likely to read your next piece.
2. Write scripts that you would enjoy seeing.
Don’t write for the market, because by the time you’re finished, the
market may have changed. Remember that by the time a screenplay makes it
to the screen, at least a year or two has passed since it was bought. I
try to write scripts that I think will hold up over time, particularly
as a playwright, because I want them to be produced over and over.
3. Proofread your work, and learn proper format.
There’s nothing more annoying than a script that’s littered with typos,
or that looks like the writer didn’t study format at all. If you don’t
care about your work, why should anyone else?
4. Learn how to market yourself, and how to
approach people about your work. That means writing query and cover
letters that sell you as a professional without your sounding off about
how great you or your script is.
5. Do at least one thing to advance your career
every day. That may be writing a new scene, submitting a script to a
theatre or contest, or building a website to market yourself.
Writing is definitely a long distance race, and if
there’s anything else you could see yourself doing, you should do that
instead.
Originally from Pakistan, where she worked in
the publications department of an organization, Mehroo Siddiqui is
currently doing her Masters from George Mason University in Virginia.